Faith Movement

"I've found that those so against "faith" have not bothered to really listen to it's teachers and they go off "half cocked" reporting things that are not taught"

Umm..for the record, I'd heard a quite many of them preach on more then one occasion thanks.

"First was the Pentecostal movt"

Andrew, have you even read about this movement? It was a scary thing, not a christian one...If memory serves..some people in this "movement" even allowed their members to have an orgy in the church... *rollseyes*


"These teachers with there Christian families overcome sickness in there families , they have wealth and prosperity were ever they turn. God makes them the head and not the tail , the lender and not the borrower. "

*sigh* last time I checked it was satan that was prince of this world. Material weath never has and never will automatically mean holiness. YOu're way off on this celt. Its not God giving them that money, its them just going out and taking it.

I think you all need to read about how Christ himself said NOT to store up things on this earth. Remember what he said about being rich? Harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then a rich person to get into heaven. I'd pray for God's will in your life, which many not, and probalby will not, be material wealth.

"Mark 16 "

Okay, then according to that you can drink some hemlock or cynide celt. Drink up.

If you actually read those passages NONE of them say faith=wealth

You will notice that what you are doing is taking those passages out of context celt, something members of the faith movment do too. Satan did it to Christ too Context is a pretty important thing. All those passages tell you to have faith in God and his will for your life, not if you have faith you get anything you want. CONTEXT.

Jewel and Louis,
You can’t say that the faith movement is not of god because they have false doctrines to me because there are hundreds of Christians that all believe the bible says different things. I find it extremely presumptuous when Christians start claiming that they are of god and someone or thing isn’t because there biblical understanding is different.
For example, I am shore that if you both told me the sects that you put your faith in, I could find heaps wrong with there doctrine and there conduct. It all depends on how the individual understood what the bible says. It is foolish to think that your bible interpretation is right and every one else is wrong?????

Jewel, you tell me on one hand that the faith movement has false teaching but on the other hand, your teaching is so obviously wrong to me.

Look at these scriptures that I recon you have grossly misquoted;

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The passage in Mark 16 is the five fold sign of an apostle. These were proofs that Jesus gave to twelve Jewish apostles to confirm that they were speaking His words.

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That is not how I read these scriptures at all.

“17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;”

It does not say, “17 and these signs shall follow the apostles of the first century”?????

See, you see it one way and I see it another, that doesn’t make your way true Jewels, you are defiantly no final authority on what scripture means, neither is any sect that I know off.

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I do not deny that God can answer prayer but He will do it according to what HE SEES FIT TO ANSWER, not because of the fact that you had enough faith to believe He can.

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See, I think a little different to this. I believe god wants men of character (not gifts), men that will walk in faith, not fear.
Men of character will make dicisions and carry it out while asking for gods grace to be on them. The fervent prayers of “a righteous man” avail much in the sight of god. If I want to carry something out on this earth, I will ask gods support and direction and I will achieve what I set out to do, if he supports me, if he doesn’t, I will know through faith because when you live in faith, you “know god”.

It appears very obvious to me that those that are to scared of god to live by faith, they read the bible, they know a little “about god” but they do not know god personaly. Bet I am stepping on toes know.

Half the Christians I meet, if I ask if they “hear gods voice”. They look at me strangly and say,”We have gods word hear in this book”.
So sad. They know about god but they don’t know him personally.

I hear gods voice, I know what he approves of and doesn’t approve of, I know god. I hear him and he hears me.

Living by that kind of faith has saved my life many times and given me amazing direction at other times.

I walk with god and he walks with me. The word of god to me is “Jesus himself” through the Holy Ghost.

To many Christians worship the pope or the bible and miss god in the whole equation, oh, yea, he is the main subject, but lets not really act as though we believe in him.

The problem is that there is to many Christians that are so scared of god that they don’t have the character to do something for god, they are always waiting for god to do something for them. I think it is about time Christians stopped waisting there time waiting around for some directions from scripture or god to know what they can or can’t do or god does or doesn`t approve off.Segregating themselves in churchs , Looking to a better heaven instead of doing the work hear to save the lost.

The religious know the scriptures and go to church but they don’t know god. Those who live by faith, they know there lords name and another voice they will not follow.

As for a sign, no one is talking about a sign hear are they??? Is a healing a sign??? What would Jesus have meant by that statement then?? Considering he healed people all the time????

I believe if you read my last post with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, you would see the truth.

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That is if what you say is true Jewel, you ever considered that if you read my posts with the guidance of the Holy Ghost, you to would see that I speak the truth.

People think if they have faith, God will do it no matter what. That is simply not true. When it comes to God you have NO rights at all because you're not God.

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I agree with you hear Louis!! I am not saying anything diffrent to this. I am saying, god will support you if he is in approval. Doesn’t the scriptures say,” I will pray and say, lord, I will do this and I will do that, I will go hear and I will go there. , If it be your will.

I am just saying that god loves us and wants to support a lot of what we want to undertake because we are filled with his spirit and his nature and are his children. My children don’t make demands on me (sept the little one) but they are constantly making requests that they want to have or do, it is my pleasure to support them, defend them and fight for them, even die for them. All they do with my blessing and in my name is a credit to me as there father. What ever they choose to do, I am behind them 100 % unless they are not being good kids of course, then, well, you reap what you sow.

I will look into these books you mentioned Louis but I have also read a lot of church revival from history, very interesting stuff isn’t it. My view is, it is extremely similar to the faith movement.

I'd disagree with you on that. That's beside the pt though. The amount of converts doesn't make it right. The faith movement is quite unbiblical about a great many things. Again, read Christianity in crisis and counterfeit revival. You'll understand then.

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That is fair enough mate, that you disagree but I don’t think it is beside the point hear. It isn’t as much about converts to the faith movement but rather, “saving the lost”. The faith movement doesn`t try to restrict its members to this denomination or that denomination , they accept all denominations in genral. They are not a denomination or a sect themselves as they have no human board of directives. As for whats right or wrong, well, I answered that in the beginning of this post.


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Good, so does Satan. That’s how he works if you haven't noticed, he says about 10 things and 9 of them are absolutely true. It’s that last thing that twists the message and makes it wrong. That's exactly what the faith movement does.

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I find this a little bias, what denomination are you from Louis, because I bet I could say they are from the devil to as a result of some stupid doctrinal issue that the whole church is split on any way.

I am confused with Christianity sometimes. Jesus comes and establishes the most “spiritual” religion to ever hit the earth and 2000 yrs later and half of the Christian religion doesn’t have a spiritual bone in their body??? Very confusing.

Here is a URL to a site that shows there is a lot more to this movement than some will admit;

http://home.computer.net/~cya/cy00052.html

Contrary to what you think Celtic, I am not in fear of God but I sure do have a healthy respect for My Heavenly Father. The very fact that He bestowed grace on me and saved me in spite of myself is something I will never understand while I'm on this earth, I believe my love for Him outweighs any fear I might have.

Since we lie if we say we have no sin in us Celtic, how do you think God deals with wayward children? Do you think He will wink at it and still answer prayers? Hebrews 12:8 says that someone is a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] and not a son that doesn't at some time in their life partake of chastisement. Yet it seems you would have me believe that if one has faith that will get them through.

I've already shown you that God allowed Paul to buffeted by satan to keep him humble. I think what Paul went through in his ministry from beatings to imprisonment show that Paul had to have a mighty faith to keep doing what he did but you would have me believe that if you have faith everything will be hunky-dory and you will recieve everything that your little heart desires and that translates to me that you think i.e., smooth sailing no problems.

Contrary to what you think Celtic, I am not in fear of God but I sure do have a healthy respect for My Heavenly Father. The very fact that He bestowed grace on me and saved me in spite of myself is something I will never understand while I'm on this earth, I believe my love for Him outweighs any fear I might have.

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You would now your own heart better than I Jewel, I only assume that because of some of the things you have said. I totally understand what your saying hear but I got to ask;

How do you know that god bestowed grace on you and saved you in spite of yourself?

Faith right!! , Well extends that faith Jewel, that is what I am trying to say. Get that faith that you have and see that god is “good”, Jesus said, I have come so that you might have life and life more abundantly. I am mainly talking about gods love for us hear rather than our love for him (which is so minute in comparison).

Since we lie if we say we have no sin in us Celtic, how do you think God deals with wayward children? Do you think He will wink at it and still answer prayers?

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No Jewel, I agree with you about chastisement and have experienced it many times “through faith”, without faith I wouldn’t have known I was even being chastised. How did Jesus deal with the Jews, remember, it was the religious book keepers that wouldn’t receive johns baptism and by doing so, rejected Christ, all because they didn’t believe, these were the most religious and devout people in the earth at the time and there unbelief counted them for chastisement while Jesus was received by the common sinner, through faith, and they were received and counted as righteousness because of there “belief”. So, what is obedience without faith?????? We need to obey through faith and without faith we are nothing but a religious person (I am not saying that to you please don’t take that personally Jewel_).

This is what I believe, with grace under the New Testament but obedience is required to make grace work (as I have already said in another post) but this is how I think god deals with a nation and I think he is the same with individuals, depending on who and what responsibility they have, i.e., Paul had huge responsibilities.

Deuteronomy 28
1 And it shall come to pass, if thou salt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.
17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

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Gods the same, he never changes, this is how he was before Christ and after Christ, on an individual basis, he deals with us much the same from my experience, although his mercies do injure and he is longsuffering.

I would fear god Jewel, if my sin was like some of the sin of these Jews, Yea, I would fear god. If I sin, yes, I fear god. But then again, I reverence him enough to come clean and confess my sin and ask for guidance and help to over come my sin. That is were grace through Jesus crucified comes into it. Before the N/T, I would have to make scarifies for my sin, now through the grace of god, Jesus has become the scarifies for my sin so now I come before god and confess through Christ and then I can stand boldly before the throne of grace and be in the presence of heavenly father were faith explodes and holiness is born.

All by faith. All of it. All of your beliefs in our lord are by faith Jewel.

We are saved by faith through gods grace and we are also set free from sin and sickness by faith through god’s grace. We prosper through faith by gods grace as well

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3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou guys prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prosperity.

Yet it seems you would have me believe that if one has faith that will get them through.

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Yes most defiantly that is what I would have you believe. Without faith in god, you are damned, you are condemned already. Your whole salvation rests upon faith Jewel; shortly you see what I am saying.

I've already shown you that God allowed Paul to buffet by Satan to keep him humble. I think what Paul went through in his ministry from beatings to imprisonment show that Paul had to have a mighty faith to keep doing what he did but you would have me believe that if you have faith everything will be hunky-dory and you will receive everything that your little heart desires and that translates to me that you think i.e., smooth sailing no problems.

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No, that’s not exactly what I would have you believe. I would have you believe that your god is bigger than any thing on this earth that comes against you and just like Paul,” through faith”, you to can overcome and be victorious over every enemy and every sickness, now, if god had decides that his grace for Paul was sufficient because god knew that if he healed Paul he would fail in more important areas, like pride. If Paul receives this from god and then believes it, then that is pauls faith in god. That is what god was able to show him because he “did have faith”. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t have known why god needed to buffet him that way.

Try to remember that we aren’t Paul either Jewel. Paul was a stout Pharisee that destroyed the Christian church in Jerusalem. He knew more about gods grace than any other man on earth besides Jesus. He lived by faith all the way. Without faith, you cannot please god.

I would not have you believe that through faith, everything will be cozy, I can promise victory over this world through faith in god though and that is what I wish the Christian church could accept so they could get themselves out of sickness and poverty like I have and start doing something for god to change this stinking rotten world..

I have come along way through faith, a long way.

God bless you Jewel and amplify your faith.

Celtic.

Explain to me how you see

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10b

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in action in your life.

celt, if you had read or even glanced at the books I told you to..*sigh*

"I find it extremely presumptuous when Christians start claiming that they are of god and someone or thing isn’t because there biblical understanding is different. "


They say faith is greater then God, that is NOT a christian thought.


"Half the Christians I meet, if I ask if they “hear gods voice”. They look at me strangly and say,”We have gods word hear in this book”.
So sad. They know about god but they don’t know him personally. "

*sigh* If I give you a game plan on how to play the game and you come to me and ask how to play the game, I'm going to say, I gave you a game plan, go check it out. the bible is what Christians look to for guidence.


"I am saying, god will support you if he is in approval. "

that's not what the faith movement says. they say if you pray for it and have enough faith, God HAS to give it to you.

"All they do with my blessing and in my name is a credit to me as there father. "

the probelm is that sometimes God says NO. and the faith movement says he can't if you're faithful enough. God doesn't always give you want you WANT he gives you what you NEED. BIG difference.

"but I don’t think it is beside the point hear. "

*remembers what God says about the wide path* I don't care how many people think its right..if they jump off a bridge will you too?


"I find this a little bias, what denomination are you from Louis, because I bet I could say they are from the devil to as a result of some stupid doctrinal issue that the whole church is split on any way"

*sigh* this is a question of what is greater then God and hits to the very fabric of Christianity. Its not some little docrinal issue celt.

OK Jewel, I don’t mind at all explaining that to you but it could get a little personal, so I may PM you about it if it does or if not I will post it hear latter.

I would add hear though, from my perspective, that Jesus was warning the disciples about deceptive religious types that were against the work of the Holy Ghost, namely the Pharisees and seduces. That’s why Jesus said that there was forgiveness for those who blasphemy him but there is no forgiveness for those who blaspheme the work of the Holy Ghost through him to save the lost. They didn’t believe him or john because they didn’t do it the old fashion way.
There was a split in Judaism in the last 200 yrs before Christ were the legalistic sects were separated from the apocalyptic sects. Jesus and john and all the Christian apostles were apocalyptic Jews (like the essay sects) but the law keepers went by the book and that was it. The law keepers killed every apocalyptic person that dared to stick their hand up and declare gods ways.

These scriptures were a warning to enter into the kingdom of god through Jesus himself and not the religious people. They are serpents that have come to rob steal and destroy.

that is what I believe people are realising more and more today , that they have been scammed with religion there whole life.

Celt, if you had read or even glanced at the books I told you to. *Sigh*

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OK Louis, I will take a look today mate, I give you my word, ya got to understand though, I already live by faith and it works, so why would I take the view of a byes book???

I want to address a couple of things you say hear Louis but because I am not exactly apart of the faith movement, I am not exactly shore what you mean. I do live by faith, so I do understand the faith movement, if we are talking about the same things , that is. Maybe you could be more specific about some things, like;

They say faith is greater then God that is NOT a Christian thought.

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Who says this??? Can you quote a preacher saying this??? Honestly mate, ya shore your not misunderstanding what they say.

*sigh* If I give you a game plan on how to play the game and you come to me and ask how to play the game, I'm going to say, I gave you a game plan, go check it out. The bible is what Christians look to for guidance.

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I assume you mean the plan laid out in the bible hears??? To me the bible builds faith better than any other book on earth although it is a shame that people try to get more out of it. The problem is that we all disagree on what it means, if you are reading it for doctrinal purposes. If you read it for faith purposes, then that is a different story.

I Said "I am saying, god will support you if he is in approval. "

Then you said;
That’s not what the faith movement says. They say if you pray for it and have enough faith, God HAS to give it to you.

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OK, who says that, because I have never heard that from them??? Shore your not misunderstanding??? Sometimes they stand on a promise from the bible and claim it but the bible tells them to????

So again, can you quote someone, because I think you could have misunderstood him hear mate?

the problem is that sometimes God says NO. And the faith movement says he can't if you're faithful enough. God doesn't always give you want you WANT he gives you what you NEED. BIG difference.

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As I said, they stand on what they believe is a promise to them from god through the bible, other than that, I think you could be miss-understanding were there coming from hear because of these books. I recon the Sanhedrin would have been very convincing to but they crucified Jesus.

As for "god giving us our needs and that is it”, c’mon mate; you shortly don’t treat your children like that do you???

*sigh* this is a question of what is greater then God and hits to the very fabric of Christianity. It’s not some little doctrinal issue Celt.

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Ok mate, fare enough, maybe you could share some of these drastic biblical mistakes, so I can see what you’re talking about???

I don’t really go for links to web sites or even books because they are always one sided. I go to one web site that says one thing and then I go to another that says the opposite. Books are the same, read one then pick up another and it is the opposite view. "We all just love to disagree hey"

Celtic.

"I already live by faith and it works, so why would I take the view of a byes book??? "

Its not to change your view, its to show you that you can be sick or poor and still be faithful. God isn't a meal-ticket.

"Who says this??? Can you quote a preacher saying this??? Honestly mate, ya shore your not misunderstanding what they say. "

Its all well documented in the books.

"The problem is that we all disagree on what it means, if you are reading it for doctrinal purposes. If you read it for faith purposes, then that is a different story. "

Nope, basic christian docterine isn't in dispute at all.

"As for "god giving us our needs and that is it”, c’mon mate; you shortly don’t treat your children like that do you??? "

*sigh* This is the problem they are CHILDEREN and don't know what's best for them. Just like we don't know what's best for us. God gives us what we NEED not what we want.

"Books are the same, read one then pick up another and it is the opposite view. "We all just love to disagree hey" "

the guy that wrote these books INCLUDES a tape with the sermons where he claims what they said is wrong biblically. Celt, God is NOT a meal ticket.

Those are good points you addressed Louis.

Celtic, I'm aksing you how the word "abundantly" impacts your life. What is it that Jesus does for you in an abundant way?

I’m not really shore why everything I have said is ignored as though I said nothing but what I do know is, that I was not brought up in Christianity, I met god through faith, I built a relationship with him through faith and I live by my faith in god. I can’t change the very foundation of my faith because someone thinks they are right when the evidence is right in front of my own eyes.

Jewel, as for abundance, well, it is beyond what you would ever receive from me. oh , by the way , I think louis makes real good points but so have I did you even read any of them

So in the end, I think it best that I continue in my abundant walk with Christ as he has done wonders in my life and be very conscious of those who will, on purpose, chose to not accept reason

God bless you both and I pray that there may be someone else that can enlighten you because I can’t see that there is anything more I can say that will show you that we as Christians are supposed to live by faith.

the holy ghost is his own wittness and he is saving thousands through faith and the faith movement while christian sects die a boring death.

Celtic.

"I can’t change the very foundation of my faith because someone thinks they are right when the evidence is right in front of my own eyes. "

Cool, and I'm glad you do..but like it says, I'll take love over faith anyday.

"the holy ghost is his own wittness and he is saving thousands through faith and the faith movement while christian sects die a boring death. "

Celt its statements like that that show me you're really not concerned what the bible says at all.

Originally posted by Andrew
let's go by what the Word says, not by testimonies.

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The Word IS a collection of testimonies.

THe bible isn't he only source of truth. THere is also your common sense and the ability to see what is going on around you. Nature is also a source of truth, according to Paul. That is why Paul says that those without the bible have no excuse for not believing, becasue they have the word of God revealed in nature and in their consciences.

First, Love is amplified through faith. The more faith we have in god, the more glorious he is to us, the more glorious he is, brings a greater love, a love of the father to us all. The fathers love.

But Louis, I know the scriptures to, I believe, like most Christians do, we all have our own sects were we think the bible means something different.

I don’t recall Jesus telling us that he will send the bible to lead and guide us into all truth. He didn’t tell us that the bible would come and speak of him.

Jesus said, "I send you the holy ghost who will lead and guide you into all truth.
He said,” the holy ghost will teach you of me."

I met god through the holy ghost Louis, not the bible, I couldn’t read or write when I became a christian at 23 yrs old.. I met Jesus through the holy ghost and became a Christian, there is were my abundant life started Jewel, he taught me to read from scripture personally because I had given up my old life and the church didn’t accept the born again me because of my past.
I became a Christian and became honest, I had to go to jail for a while and when I got out I was aloud to live in this Christian house and go to this Christian church that would not accept my salvation from sin. So, I spent day in and day out, on my own with god, reading the bible and praying that Jesus be my friend because I had none.

I asked god to teach me to read so I could read scripture. So I read and prayed at least 8 hrs a day for 5 moths. I not only learned how to read but I knew the book backwards.

So, from there I met a Christian wife, we been married with 4 children for 10 yrs and they are all a credit to me. I come from a terrible childhood and young adult hood were my life was hell on earth and since having Jesus to talk with, my whole life has turned around. I value nothing but him because without him I have nothing. As a result of this, I have given and given and given and all that keeps happening is that men keep giving into my hands and we are full of wealth, which means nothing to me, me share all that we have. I can’t help it if god keeps returning the favor??????

I got a pc 18 moths ago and I been asking god to teach me to spell and write and that is exactly what has happened until now I want to write books for the lord now, so I ask him, what should I write about?? He is faithful and always leads me in one-way or another. So after my life and the life Christ has given me through faith, yea, I know the difference between living by faith and living by a book. If I write books for god one day and he approves of them, then he has preformed miracles through me that souly came by my faith that he would help me and hear my pleas and teach me. God chooses the week things in this world to show his strength and those who are saved from much; they love their lord much.

I will never put more faith in the bible than the Holy Ghost because that would be misplacing my loyalties to Jesus, our lord. I do know it backward though.

Celtic.

AMEN Celtic Crusader! And beautiful testimony of your glorious salvation!

I agree, the Word and Spirit must go hand in hand. In Acts we see that so clearly -- the Gospel preached with signs and wonders thru the power of the Spirit. Anyone (believer or atheist) can read the Bible, but it takes the Holy Spirit to guide you into truth, not our intellect or PhDs.

The Pharisees knew the scriptures inside out, yet it was sinners, prostitutes and tax collectors that got saved.

Yes, God does choose the weak and lowly things of the earth to confound the wise!

Thanks for sharing!!!

Mambutu,

quote:" The Word IS a collection of testimonies.

THe bible isn't he only source of truth. THere is also your common sense and the ability to see what is going on around you. Nature is also a source of truth, according to Paul. "

Yes and no. I'm talking abt divine truths. Yes the Bible contains testimonies, but they are inspired by the Holy Spirit. A Christian can also give a testimony or prophesy, but we must judge it in light of the Word. In that sense, Bible truth is still higher in authority. Common sense and medical reports may tell you that you are dying of cancer. that's truth in a natural sense, but God's Word says "By his stripes you are healed" "With long life he will satisfy you". These are divine truths and supercede natural truths.

I'm not saying you cant finds truths in the world but God's truths in the Bible shld always overide them. Also, you'll find that earthly truths, are usu watered down versions of truths already found in the Bible.

eg nutritionist today will tell you that the most healthy diet is the meditarranean diet or what the Jews eat. That's very true -- yet it was already in the Bible (OT) more than a thousand years ago.

"The more faith we have in god, the more glorious he is to us, the more glorious he is, brings a greater love, a love of the father to us all. The fathers love. "

I disagree. Misplaced faith cannot amplyfy God's love.

"I don’t recall Jesus telling us that he will send the bible to lead and guide us into all truth. He didn’t tell us that the bible would come and speak of him. "

*sigh* How do you think christ responded in times of confrontation with people doing wrong. He quoted scripture, not saying, "oh, this is what the holy spirit says..." The bible is God's word and is here for us to learn from THROUGH the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will never contradict the bible.


"I asked god to teach me to read so I could read scripture. So I read and prayed at least 8 hrs a day for 5 moths. I not only learned how to read but I knew the book backwards. "

Hmm...I might have to wonder about this....I'm happy for you of course, but you clinging to the "faith movement" has me questioning your knowledge of the bible, since you seem to advocate you don't need it as well.


I'm happy for you celt. I'm glad you made something of yourself and continue to trust God. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. What I am saying is that if you think your faith is Greater then God and he will give you wantever you want..that IS a bad thing and very unscriptural.

God is not a meal ticket.

"Common sense and medical reports may tell you that you are dying of cancer. that's truth in a natural sense, but God's Word says "By his stripes you are healed" "With long life he will satisfy you". These are divine truths and supercede natural truths. "

Yup, and it could be the healing that happens when you get your imperishable body. If someone dies of cancer it doesn't mean the aren't faithful. You're wrong Andrew.

*sigh* How do you think Christ responded in times of confrontation with people doing wrong. He quoted scripture, not saying, "Oh, this is what the Holy Spirit says..." The bible is God's word and is here for us to learn from THROUGH the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will never contradict the bible.

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Louis, I have asked you before about what doctrines are wrong with it but ya just told me to read a book???

I would be more than happy to talk about scripture, Jewel was saying the same thing as you and then quoted scripture out of turn at his first shot????

Lets see what scriptures you`ve got to support what your saying, I have already pasted dozens of scripture to support my claims, yet you or Jewel just let them slip by ya. then ya talk about the faith movement not having scripture Louis, back up and check them out and maybe confront one of them please because I needed to resort to personal testimony because they weren’t even considered or dealt with, Jewel also was the one that asked why my life was more abundant, that is why I shared a testimonies that I was reluctant t do as some trample it in the name of there doctrines??????

What I am saying is that if you think your faith is Greater then God and he will give you want ever you want. That IS a bad thing and very unscriptural.

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Are you faredinkum mate, haven’t you heard a single thing I have said Louis

Andrew, thanks for your encouragement, it is nice to know that there are other Christians that can relate to what I am trying to say.

God bless.

Celtic.


Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

"Louis, I have asked you before about what doctrines are wrong with it but ya just told me to read a book??? "

and I told you back, they believe if you ask for anything and be faithful..you'll get it. That's simply not true. This goes for healing as well.

"Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

This is not in context. Yes God gives us good things, but things that are GOOD for us, not meaning things we want! Get a clue already! I just want to ask you how did Christ pray..YOUR WILL BE DONE. Why don't you search it and find the part about riches...It says daily BREAD. not daily meat or luxery item..it says bread. God let stephen die, are you saying he wasn't faithful enough? the problem is that Christ came to bring spiritual blessings, not physical ones. If you had read your bible you would know that.

Christ himself addresses getting material goods...he says in Luke, "for the pagans of this world runs after all suck things, and your Father knows that you NEED them." He provides needs, not wants.

Louis,

"Yup, and it could be the healing that happens when you get your imperishable body."

Here we go again Louis. Insisting that death is a form of healing or that we shld wait for the rapture to be healed, which may not even happen in this lifetime.

And as I've said b4, the whole point of being healed is so you dont die! I dont recall Jesus saying to the leper or any sick person: "I am willing, so DIE and be healed". Anyone with any commons spiritual sense will know this.

And if you dont believe in healing, how are you going to be one of those "alive AND REMAIN" to see the rapture?

quote: "If someone dies of cancer it doesn't mean the aren't faithful. You're wrong Andrew."

There you go again saying your favourite same phrase over and over again, implying that I've said this when I haven't.

You seem to be so bitterly sore about the faith movt, healing, prosperity etc, sometimes I wonder if there's something else that's causing all this bitterness and anger, that's causing you not to even read posts carefully and just jumping to your preconceived notions.

As I've said Louis, I'm not discussing this with you, but I'm replying just so others know.