- Apr 11, 2005
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Whom called themselves Catholic 'Katholick'
have the right to fight against heresies??
have the right to fight against heresies??
the original meaning saw it as just different not wrong, it took on stronger meaning as people started changing who Jesus was. But it wasn't until the Church started being identified with the State that it became dangerous to your health to believe a heresy. (IMHO)heresy
from a Greek word signifying (1) a choice, (2) the opinion chosen, and (3) the
sect holding the opinion. In the Acts of the Apostles (5:17; 15:5; 24:5, 14;
26:5) it denotes a sect, without reference to its character. Elsewhere,
however, in the New Testament it has a different meaning attached to it. Paul
ranks "heresies" with crimes and seditions (Gal. 5:20). This word also denotes
divisions or schisms in the church (1 Cor. 11:19). In Titus 3:10 a "heretical
person" is one who follows his own self-willed "questions," and who is to be
avoided. Heresies thus came to signify self-chosen doctrines not emanating from
God (2 Pet. 2:1).
WarriorAngel said:Whom called themselves Catholic 'Katholick'
have the right to fight against heresies??
WarriorAngel said:BUT if the CHURCH was ONE...
tulc said:...to preserve that unity?
tulc(I'm just guessing here)
Wavy said:The first Christians (if you define "Christian" as a believer in Christ) were called "Nazarenes" and "followers of the Way", not "Catholic".
If anything, had you went back in time, they would have appeared as Jews (in appearance and in manner). Quite different from what we have today with any "Christian church"; Protestant, Catholic or otherwise.
WarriorAngel said:BUT if the CHURCH was ONE...why did they need to correct anyone??
Weren't divisions ok, as long as they all believed in Christ?
DIDN'T Jesus accept all who called out to Him??
Eruliel said:They needed to correct people because unaddressed sin is the quickest way to destroy a church. Jesus commands correction when a fellow sibling in Christ is found in grave error (Matthew 18:15-20). I would say that a heresy that doesn't teach what the apostles taught is a grave error. In fact it's to be condemned (Galatians 1:6-10)
Depends on the division. If a church grew too large then perhaps they divided to create a sister church. But unity has always been prayed for (John 17), and exhorted (Romans 14:17-19). In fact division over small things that we do/eat/drink wasn't good at all (Romans 14).
And division to get rid of a heretical teacher was exhorted, but then if the heresy was so errant as to teach that Jesus was created and not God, then the heresy and those who taught it were not Christian, so it was more of a weeding process than a division.
As far as calling on Jesus. He forgave even when those who hurt (wait no that's an understatement)those that killed him were unrepentant. At the same time in Matthew 18 he says if someone is not repentant even after talking to the entire assembly he should be thrown out from amongst the group until he comes to his senses. He forgave but did not accept...is that the difference?
Anyway often times heretical views on Jesus turned him into less than God, either into an angel, or a man who was tuned in to heavenly frequencies. That is not the true Jesus, therefore if Jesus accepts those who call on him (which he does), but if they are calling on the wrong Jesus how can the true Jesus accept them?
That's the way I see it anyway,
Slainte!
Eruliel
tulc said:I kind of like the definition from dictionary.com
the original meaning saw it as just different not wrong, it took on stronger meaning as people started changing who Jesus was. But it wasn't until the Church started being identified with the State that it became dangerous to your health to believe a heresy. (IMHO)
tulc(thankful for the seperation of Church and State)
WarriorAngel said:Whom called themselves Catholic 'Katholick'
have the right to fight against heresies??
No, everyone has the right to read the Scriptures for themselves and determine what they want to believe in. This principle is timeless. The Holy Spirit will lead all the faithful to Truth.WarriorAngel said:Whom called themselves Catholic 'Katholick'
have the right to fight against heresies??
A. believer said:Of course. And so do Christians today have not only the right, but the responsibility.
WarriorAngel said:So I concur and with that, what were the heresies?
But more over, are the heretics allowed to believe the way they found the truth?
Why were they fought against??
DIdn't Christ die for all?
tulc said:Uhmm no, more like defending against people who wanted to make Him something other then who He was.
tulc(sorry I wasn't clear)
WarriorAngel said:The Bible also uses a term in Hebrew [or it is Greek] for Universal which is Katholic.
'Go ye and baptize 'all nations' [katholick]'