Do you believe that every believer is filled with the Spirit when they are saved?

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JimB

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Do you believe that every believer is filled with the Spirit at the time they are saved? If not, why not?

I believe a case can be made for it. When the Spirit comes into a believer he/she is, among other things, immediately baptized in the Spirit (i.e., baptized into the body of Christ, 1 Cor. 12.13) and given access to all of God’s enablements (spiritual gifts), “been made to drink into one Spirit”, including tongues.

Maintaining that fullness of the Spirit (Acts 4.31; 13.9, 52; Eph. 5.18; Col. 1.9) is a subsequent responsibility of all believers.

What do you think?

 

Citizen of the Kingdom

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Yes-keyword being believer. A deposit is given at the time of believing. "though hearing the Word " that creates the rebirth, well, hearing and turning from sin to God. Then I think there comes a time when a filling of the Spirit comes in. Complete agreement.
 
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SharonL

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I am speaking only for myself here.

I believe that everyone that is saved has the Spirit of God within them. But I do beleive there is a step further with the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

I've been a Christian all my life, but when I saw a friend that had a closer walk with Jesus than I did - I became very interested and wanted more - I started searching for the Holy Spirit.

I was home alone one day and reading a book about a minister searching for more of the Holy Spirit - I just said "God if this is of you I want it" - I was swept up into a time with the Lord that I have never experienced - two strange words came to my mind and I spoke them out - and the most beautiful language came forth for over 3 hours and my life has never been the same.

So for myself - yes I believe at the time of being saved the Spirit is with you - but I believe in the further step of the infilling of the Holy Spirit with impartation of the gifts. It could happen different for different people, but this is how it happened to me. A beautiful walk and once you have it - you never want to turn back.
 
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He put me back together

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Brother Jim,

The Scripture is ambiguous with the term "filled with the Holy Spirit." Sometimes one could say that it is analogous with the term "recieve the Holy Spirit," but there are other places where the term is used for a temporary state of being rather than for the indwelling communion. Very often the Scripture uses the phrase "And then (insert name of riled up child of Yahweh here), being filled with the Holy Spirit, stood up in the congregation and spoke with a loud voice, saying these words: " In these passages the term seems to reflect more of a situation where the person has already recieved the Spirit of Elohim, and is speaking prophetically.

The term "recieve the Holy Spirit," however, is not ambiguous at all. Clearly and unmistakably, in the book of Acts, the believer undergoes two events: He does what the book of Acts calls "recieving the gospel." After this, he "recieves the Holy Spirit." Two events that do not always occur at the same time, but always occur in that order. And of course, water baptism occurred in differing places throughout the work.

I am sickened by doctrines, pentecostal or not, that convert salvation into a procedure or a ritual, but these indeed are events that are explicitely, discretely described as occurring subsequently. There really isn't an argument against that fact.

However, the question still remains: "Ok, all that is nice, but what is Salvation? When is a person 'saved?'" I suppose you'd want to discard the argument that a person is "saved" when he endures to the end, so I think that a study of Romans 8 brings us here:

The question should not be "Do you believe that every beleiver is filled with the Spirit when they are saved?" but, "Is a believer saved when he recieves the Spirit, or before? ...or after?"
 
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LittleRocketBoy

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I think this is confusing the Holy Spirit with the spirt of Christ. When we are saved we are baptized into the body of Christ... not the body of the Holy Spirit. We are not the Holy Spirit. But our old adamic spirits were totally replaced... not with the Holy Spirit, but with the same spirit the God raised up when He raised up Jesus.

2Co 5:17 KJV
17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, (not the Holy Spirit) [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.




When He raised up Jesus (the head) He also raised up the rest of the body also (the arms, legs, toes.... everything). He did not raise up the Holy Spirit, and we are not a part of the Holy Spirit.

Eph 2:5-6 KJV
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(not the Holy Spirit) (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:



So our identity is with Christ... not the Holy Spirit.

Gal 2:20 KJV
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We receive the Holy Spirit, and He comes along side to help up... but He is not us.
Jim M said:
Do you believe that every believer is filled with the Spirit at the time they are saved? If not, why not?

I believe a case can be made for it. When the Spirit comes into a believer he/she is, among other things, immediately baptized in the Spirit (i.e., baptized into the body of Christ, 1 Cor. 12.13) and given access to all of God’s enablements (spiritual gifts), “been made to drink into one Spirit”, including tongues.

Maintaining that fullness of the Spirit (Acts 4.31; 13.9, 52; Eph. 5.18; Col. 1.9) is a subsequent responsibility of all believers.

What do you think?

 
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JimB

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I have come to believe (I am still working on this) that when a person comes to Christ the Holy Spirit in all His fullness takes up residence in the believer and she/he is “made to drink of that selfsame Spirit” (1 Cor. 12.13) and so is, among all the other things the Spirit brings to us, “filled” with the Spirit.

What is commonly (and I believe inaccurately) labeled “the baptism of/in/by/with the Spirit” by Pentecostal believers is, in fact, the infilling of the Spirit (as Acts 2.4 plainly states, “they were all FILLED with the Holy Spirit”) – more accurately a re-filling – of the Spirit, since they were originally filled when they were saved. This is not, technically, the baptism in/of/by/with the Spirit since that happened at the time they were saved and they were, at that time, “baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”

Tongues, and all other gifts of the Spirit, were/are accessible to all believers at all times from the moment of their conversion to Christ. Just because the do not use them – or more likely, do not know they can use them – does not mean they do not have them. Spiritual gifts are given corporately to the Church, the body of Christ, in my opinion, not separately to individual believers.

 
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valorJ

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Yes, I believe that every believer is filled with the Spirit as the bible says, however doesn't manifest itself in full force, or at all - for awhile. Obviously each person is different. This is not because of the Holy Spirit holding back, it's because of us. This is how spiritual gifts were explained to me: When you were younger and would ask your father for the keys to his car, he would say "Not yet, son." and keep doing so until you were ready to drive his car. You would be stuck with driving your car, learning the ways, or no car at all. The Father didn't say "No, not ever." Not yet. So I believe we keep pressing on, doing what God wants us to do for Him, and eventually we'll be deemed ready to receive. That's my take on it!
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I think there's different stages where the Holy Spirit plays more and more of a part in the believer's life.
From the immature stage to the mature, where one takes on the responsibility of being a member of the house of God.There's alot of different stages IMO just like a child goes thro. We'er not instantly aware and wise. That's an eastern belief. Altho I think when we come to believe we get the whole truth and that truth has a vast depth to it.
 
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valorJ

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I also believe that for many reasons the majority of modern American churches, well, for lack of a better word at the moment - disgraceful. The church of Acts was MUCH more Spiritually conducive, as were many churches of the time. But in this day and age, many people wish and wonder why the Spirit isn't making such a presence as He did during the first churches. That's obvious - we're nothing like the early church, for whatever reasons. Our pride gets in our way during worship and minsitry, or false idols do. Thinking about money, or where we're going to go to lunch after church.

Why are there no miraculous healings taking place anymore? There are. There really are! It's just extremely rare here in America. Why? Because we simply don't trust enough. We have other things to rely on, like modern medicine if God "doesn't come through". Down in Mexico, in the middle of a field, in the middle of nowhere, people came and were healed. Why? Because their faith was SO powerful. GOD was their only hope. The Holy Spirit really moved there, because they all believed, and were not ashamed, nor had any other care in the world. The atmosphere for the few people there was much more Spirit conducive than in our modern churches. A matter of faith.

Sorry if it got a bit off topic, just felt it made a point that should be noticed.
 
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oneshot012

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Wow, as always Jim good thought provoking questions. So onward to my oppinion. Clearly it is true that once we are saved we recieve the spirit for he assures our inheritance (Eph 1). I know there are instances such as Cornelius in I think Acts 10 where no hands were layed and they spoke in tongues. And then they realized they had the H.S. But then there seems to be a later ascpect i.e. of Paul laying hands on them in Acts 19. So we see both. For Paul asked did you recieve the Spirit when you believed. So then one asks the question were they even saved in the first place.

So my opinnion yes we have access to all these things when we believe. For no one layed hands on me for this. I just recieved it from the Lord by seeking more. But that doesn't take away from the Pentecostal way of doing things.

Hope you all understood my jumbled thoughts.
 
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Christina M

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It absolutely floors me that so many people can read the same exact Word and come away with so many different opinions. :scratch:

This whole thread is "I believe" or "It's my opinion".... what happened to THE WORD IS THE WORD AND IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS????

I just Googled "Baptism in the Spirit". :D ^_^ If I didn't laugh, I'd be crying :cry: at the horribly convoluted beliefs that are out there in this world. Same with healing, prosperity, etc.

I am just glad that God was kind enough to put His Spirit in me when I got saved, and further imbued me with the Power of His Spirit when He baptised me in the Spirit a few years later. My life changed....my walk with Him changed....life has not been the same since. :bow:


Once you've experienced it...tasted it... you can no longer deny it.....(esp when the Word says it). Lack of knowledge, lack of experience can no longer be claimed when one has experienced the truth of His Word.
 
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JEBrady

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Jim M said:
What is commonly (and I believe inaccurately) labeled “the baptism of/in/by/with the Spirit” by Pentecostal believers is, in fact, the infilling of the Spirit (as Acts 2.4 plainly states, “they were all FILLED with the Holy Spirit”) – more accurately a re-filling – of the Spirit, since they were originally filled when they were saved. This is not, technically, the baptism in/of/by/with the Spirit since that happened at the time they were saved and they were, at that time, “baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”

Jim, I've read some very astute posts by you, but this one has me nonplussed. I responded to the same post in Initial Evidence thread, with the following scripture. I just don't see how you could possibly state that what occurred in Acts 2:4 was not the baptism in the Holy Spirit, based on the word "filled". Can you elaborate at all on this? Quoted from previous post:

And what of these scriptures? How do you read them?
(my bold)

Matthew 3:11 (NKJV)
11 oI indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. pHe will baptize you with the Holy Spirit 1and fire. [1]
Luke 24:49 (NKJV)
49 sBehold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city 4of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
[2]
Acts 1:4-5 (NKJV)
4 eAnd being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have fheard from Me; 5 gfor John truly baptized with water, hbut you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” [3]

Acts 2:33 (NKJV)
33 Therefore cbeing exalted 1to dthe right hand of God, and ehaving received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He fpoured out this which you now see and hear.
 
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LittleRocketBoy

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Jim...
I will say that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit can happen immediately when a person is born again. The following discussions were presented in a thread where I was proposing the idea that belief can occur prior to one even understanding the message...
For the purposes of this discussion.. notice when the Holy Spirit fell on them.
He fell on them when Peter began to speak... before they even knew what Peter was going to propose. Later Peter relates that God send the Holy Spirit on them as soon as they believed as proof of their acceptance. All this happened really before Peter even got the gospel out of his mouth. Hence they believed before they understood, and were baptized with the Spirit at that time. It is quite long, but I think it pertains somewhat to what you are suggesting:




When did they believe?


In Acts 10, we see Peter preach to Gentiles for the first time:

Acts 10
34 Then Peter began to speak. "I clearly see," he said,"that God makes no distinctions between one man and another;
35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.
36 The Message which He sent to the descendants of Israel, when He announced the Good News of peace through Jesus Christ--He is Lord of all--that Message you cannot but know;
37 the story, I mean, which has spread through the length and breadth of Judaea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism which John proclaimed.
38 It tells how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, so that He went about everywhere doing acts of kindness, and curing all who were being continually oppressed by the Devil--for God was with Jesus.
39 "And we are witnesses as to all that He did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. But they even put Him to death, by crucifixion.
40 That same Jesus God raised to life on the third day, and permitted Him to appear unmistakably,
41 not to all the people, but to witnesses--men previously chosen by God--namely, to us, who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.
42 And He has commanded us to preach to the people and solemnly declare that this is He who has been appointed by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.
43 To Him all the Prophets bear witness, and testify that through His name all who believe in Him receive the forgiveness of their sins."
44 While Peter was speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all who were listening to the Message.
45 And all the Jewish believers who had come with Peter were astonished that on the Gentiles also the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling the majesty of God. Then Peter said,
47 "Can any one forbid the use of water, and object to these persons being baptized--men who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?"
48 And he directed that they should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they begged him to remain with them for a time.

What I want to ask you is centered around verse 44. It says "While Peter was speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all who were listening to the Message".
But we can further clarify exactly when the Holy Ghost fell on them from Peter's recounting of the event in the next Chapter:

Acts 11
14 who will speak words to you by which you and all your household will be saved.
15 And in my beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, as also on us in the beginning.

I looked at a couple dozen versions and all of them convey the same meaning. It was toward the beginnig of the sermon that the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles who were present. Some translations say: "as I began to speak", and others say: "no sooner had I begun to speak ". But the idea is the same. The Spirit began to fall on them at the beginning of his sermon, and continued throughout.

There is one more recounting of this event that adds even more information about what was happening in the spirit as Peter spoke.... and it may turn over some apple carts and kill some sacred cows.

Acts 15
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us ;

Now it is plainly evident from these verses that the Gentiles(who had not yet heard the gospel) in chapter 10 believed before God gave them the Holy Ghost.
So here is my question.
If they were obviously ignorant of what was about to be preached to them and:
If the Holy Ghost fellon them as soon as Peter began preaching, and:
If they believed before they could be given the Holy Ghost...

WHEN DID THEY BEGIN TO BELIEVE?

If you can figure that one out... then tell me what it was they were believing BEFORE THEY HAD EVEN HEARD IT?

(Hint... here it is)
Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren,what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Perhaps this sheds more light on the meaning of:

"Faith comes by HEARING... and hearing by the word ofGod"






Acts 10:
44 While Peter was speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all who were listening to the Message.
45 And all the Jewish believers who had come with Peter were astonished that on the Gentiles also the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling the majesty of God. Then Peter said,

1 Cor 2 is likely a commentary of what happened in Acts 10. The spirits of these Gentiles received spirit "data" before their minds even comprehended what was being said. There is simply no way they could have drawn a conclusion or formed a question or even thought there was any "choice" to be made. Since it says they believed before the Holy Ghost fell, and the Holy Ghost fell just as Peter begand to speak, then where was there opportunity for any such mental (soulical)construction?
I suspect that they most certainly had to have believed during the first half of the sermon presented in verses 34-43. I think they had to have heard the name of Jesus.... so I think belief entered their hearts instantly upon hearing the name of Jesus in verse 36. As Peter pointed out, they knew who Jesus was and the events surrounding His death and resurrection. So as soon as He preached the name "Jesus"... at that instant... belief was generated in their hearts. Up until the that moment, those Gentiles really did not know what words were going to be spoken to them. Also, they did not believe prior to that moment. They were given the Holy Ghost as a witness the instant they believed...and belief came to them while Peter spoke.

Even though they knew the facts about the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, and no doubt mentally assented to them already... that was not belief! If that was belief, the Holy Ghost would have fallen on them long ago as a witness to their believing at that time. But the Holy Ghost did not fall on them until the word was preached to them because they did not believe in their hearts until that time... even tho they knew the basic facts of the gospel. The passage clearly says that they would hear words by which they would be saved.... implying they were not yet saved before Peter began to speak... which they would have been if all it tookwere mental assent to believe.

So this is a very interesting passage that reveals some revelation about how things happen in the spirit realm. Belief indeed does come merely by hearing... not by understanding, will, choice, or anyother soulical function.
 
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LittleRocketBoy

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(Part 2)
Their non-physical ears heard non-verbal words spoken by a non-physical person. Faith comes from the Spirit of God speaking spiritual words into spiritual beings. Faith comes in the form of an assurance... not some logical-mental construction that can be accepted or rejected by the unrenewed soulical man. This belief/assurance (revelation into their hearts) was imparted to them just as Peter opened his mouth. Their little noodles had nothing to do with the accepting, choosing, or deciding because at that moment there was nothing for their little noodles to accept, choose, or decide about. Their mindshad not even heard the auditory words of Peter yet. But the spiritual words spoken by the Spirit were delivered and received instantly as Peter beganspeaking.
The evidence is undeniable:
1. They were not savedand did not believe at the point Peter opened His mouth. This is proved because the angel told Peter to go to them and speak words "by which they would be saved". No need to do that if they already believed and were already saved. Also, if they already believed, God would have already baptised them with the Holy Ghost to evidence that fact. That had not happened.
2. They all had the Holy Spirit fall on them "as Peter opened his mouth to speak". It was at thisexact moment that the Holy Spirit imparted belief to them. It was not the physical words of Peter... but the "behind the scenes" words that were spoken byGod that caused the belief. It was only after they believed that God confirmed that belief by giving them the Holy Ghost. All this happened as soon as Peter opened his mouth and started to speak. The minds of these people were still sitting there waiting to hear what Peter had to say. Their minds had no clue as to what He was going to say. But in the spirit, God spoke the truth into their spirits in an instant... and belief came.
3. There was absolutely no choices offered, made, or concluded in those seconds when Peter was opening his mouth to speak. The minds of these people had nothing to do with this process other than getting out of the way. If they made a "choice" here... what was it? What did they base it on? How did they know any alledged choice was available orwhat the options were?

The whole point here is to prove without a doubt that people believe as a result of a revelation from God into their spiritregardless of what our little noodles do.
Faith comes by hearing, and (the kind of hearing we are talking about is)hearing by a word spoken by Christ!

Our little noodles do not have the ability to perceive, understand, or manipulate words from the "Spirit" designated for the "spirit". All the choosing and deciding and commitments made by the soulical man are meaningless in the generation of belief in the spirit.





For the sake of discussion, lets say it was the actual verbal auditory words spoken by Peter and heard by these men that caused them to believe. Lets look at what was spoken by Peter.

Remember now... the believed and were filled with the Spirit as soon as Peter began to speak! Lets look at those opening words:

Act 10:34-44 KJVA
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said,Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Any saving words there? Anything in that statement that would have let the Gentiles to a decision or a choice about anything?
Ok... lets be fair and assume we are still in the process of Peter "beginning" to speak. He goes on:


Acts 10
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Hmmm. He has completed his first thought. Any saving words here? Any choice offered yet? And decisions being made? What are the listeners doing here? I suspect at this point they already have belief present and are already speaking in tongues having been filled with the Holy Spirit. Having completed his frist thought, we are well past the "beginning" of his speaking.

It is only after this that we even see any mention of Jesus or the gospel. Yet still there is no suggesting of any decision, choice, or mental construct. Are they still listening and trying to figure out what it is that Peter is talking about and what he is going to say? As I said before... by this time they are wellllll past the "beginning" of his speaking and by this time they have had belief imparted to them and are already speaking tongues. So where is there any mental construct leading to a choice or any decision??? There is none because the faith did not come by a choice or decision. It came by the spiritual words spoken by a Spiritual God to a spiritual being.

Acts 10
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel,preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good,and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews,and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Finally.... when Peter is beyond the half way point of his sermon we see something upon which the Gentiles might base a choise. But even then... Peter is not asking them to choose or decide anything. He is just speaking the word to them. There is no suggestion that there is anything to choose or decide. By now Peter has been watching them speak in tongues for 6 or 7 of our verses. They were way past accepting, receiving, choosing, or deciding anything. Choice is the last thing on their minds. They are rejoicing and praising God with tongues.... not trying to figure out some logical construct in their little noodles.

Acts 10
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words,the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

At the end of the sermon, Luke (the author of the book) points out the fact that they have been speaking in tongues since the beginning of Peter's message. This fact is confirmed in the next chapter:

Act 11:15 KJVA
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fellon them, as on us at the beginning.


This manifestation was offered as proof from God that they had already believed... and that could have only happened the instant that Peter opened his mouth:
Act 15:8 KJVA
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us ;

Now I am sorry. But anyone who can read these plain and simply facts and still insist that these Gentiles "choose" to believe something are, I think, being a bit disingenuous. The facts are the facts.... and the facts prove that they believed before their minds even knew what was coming.

This is not "theology"... this is simple "chronology"!
This is A followed by B followed by C.
It is a make it or break it for your personal integrity.






Acts 10
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word.

Acts 11
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

The scripture is pretty clear that the Holy Ghost fell on them when he began speaking... not at the very end. But lets just break from that clear logic for a moment and say, just for the sake of discussion, that Peter did get down to the end of his sermon and that it was actually then that the Holy Ghost fell on them and they began to speak in tongues. Where is there any choice being offered, effected, or completed? What were they being asked to choose or decide? Really there was nothing. They were simply being made aware of words and the direct and immediate result of that awareness was belief. There were no long sober introspective musings. No repetitive calls for repentance or decisions for Christ. No sinners prayers, alter calls, or even a question offered! All they did was hear words and as a result of hearing (in the spirit... not the flesh) they believed.
We saw previously that GOD granted "repentance unto life" to them... they did not grant God permission to enter their lives as Lord and Christ. No such permission was requestion... and none was given or needed.
 
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JEBrady

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valorJ said:
Yes, I believe that every believer is filled with the Spirit as the bible says, however doesn't manifest itself in full force, or at all - for awhile. Obviously each person is different. This is not because of the Holy Spirit holding back, it's because of us. This is how spiritual gifts were explained to me: When you were younger and would ask your father for the keys to his car, he would say "Not yet, son." and keep doing so until you were ready to drive his car. You would be stuck with driving your car, learning the ways, or no car at all. The Father didn't say "No, not ever." Not yet. So I believe we keep pressing on, doing what God wants us to do for Him, and eventually we'll be deemed ready to receive. That's my take on it!

I would beg to differ with the explanation you were given. Spiritual gifts, or, more properly, manifestations of the Holy Spirit, have nothing to do with the maturity of the believer. In Acts 19, the Ephesus believers spoke in tongues and prophesied. I don't know any more "spiritual" manifestations than those.

On the other hand, you can fail to receive due to lack of faith. For that, you might have to press in to God first.

(edited incorrect reference in Acts)
 
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JEBrady

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LRB-
with respect to your exposition on Acts 10, how do you harmonize that they were saved without hearing with this scripture?

Romans 10:14-16
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear pwithout a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
q“How beautiful are the feet of those who 2preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
p Acts 8:31; Titus 1:3

q Is. 52:7; Nah. 1:15

2 NU omits preach the gospel of peace, Who

The New King James Version. 1996, c1982 . Thomas Nelson: Nashville
 
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Papilio

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Jim M said:
Do you believe that every believer is filled with the Spirit at the time they are saved? If not, why not?



What do you think?

It is true that every believer is "filled" with The Spirit when they are saved. However, The Holy Spirit will remain quiet and inactive until the believer rebukes their flesh and makes a decision to listen to the Holy Spirit instead of their animalistic instincts.
 
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JEBrady

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Christina M said:
It absolutely floors me that so many people can read the same exact Word and come away with so many different opinions. :scratch:

This whole thread is "I believe" or "It's my opinion".... what happened to THE WORD IS THE WORD AND IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS????

I just Googled "Baptism in the Spirit". If I didn't laugh, I'd be crying at the horribly convoluted beliefs that are out there in this world. Same with healing, prosperity, etc.

I am just glad that God was kind enough to put His Spirit in me when I got saved, and further imbued me with the Power of His Spirit when He baptised me in the Spirit a few years later. My life changed....my walk with Him changed....life has not been the same since. :bow:


Once you've experienced it...tasted it... you can no longer deny it.....(esp when the Word says it). Lack of knowledge, lack of experience can no longer be claimed when one has experienced the truth of His Word.

There's a difference between hearing about, thinking about, and just knowing. Pretty straight shooter, are you, Christina? :)
 
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LittleRocketBoy

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I guess the posts presented what I think. The Holy Spirit presented the truth to their spirits via revelation prior to their minds receiving it. It is not physical hearing that is referred to in Rom 10, it is spiritual hearing.
But beyond that, I would like to hear from others how they could have believed, were saved, received the Holy Spirit, spoken in tongues and prophecied.... all before they hear the gospel with their ears.


JEBrady said:
LRB-
with respect to your exposition on Acts 10, how do you harmonize that they were saved without hearing with this scripture?

Romans 10:14-16
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear pwithout a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
q“How beautiful are the feet of those who 2preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
p Acts 8:31; Titus 1:3

q Is. 52:7; Nah. 1:15

2 NU omits preach the gospel of peace, Who

The New King James Version. 1996, c1982 . Thomas Nelson: Nashville
 
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