Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath? (2)

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

BrightCandle said:
The 4th Commamdment also says to work 6 days, if every day were kept as a Sabbath, no work would get done. Common sense would tell you that that could not be true.

No! You have it backwards. This gives us the right to work everyday......all 7 days if we wish. We are gentiles, the sabbath doesn't pertain to us, it pertained only to the Jews of the OT.

God gives us one day at a time......we give back one day at a time. My church has services everyday, the congregation goes everyday, BECAUSE they love the Lord, to GIVE BACK some of the time He gives us each day. WE are here "ONLY" to complete His plan, we are NOT here to gorge ourselves in the details of life.

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

catlover said:
BUT how does one keep the Sabbath? Does that mean no computer, no T.V, no cooking, no cleaning? Or does it mean church attendance?

The sabbath ONLY pertained to the JEWS of the OT......NOT the gentiles.

The Sabbath is set aside in the Church Age,
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Col. 2:16-17~~ (Exegesis)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]16.~~Consequently, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: This is refering to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]17~~ Which {rituals} kept on being a shadow[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]of those things about to come,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]but the reality is from the source of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: the Jewish Age rituals were 'shadows' of the reality that was and is Christ. The Jewish Age looked forward to the cross. The Church age looks back on the cross}.[/FONT]

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

jochanaan said:
So are there any limits at all on our actions as Christians? You may have seen my question regarding homosexual and polyamorous partnerships; is it also all right to murder, to dishonor our parents, to use God's name in a curse, or to embezzle from our employers? What would you set up in place of the Law?

I don't set up anything.....GOD does.

It is called "GRACE" as the bible say's.

When we are in FELLOWSHIP we are sinless, the OSN is debunked. God the Holy Spirit is doing the work through us.......one has to be "PERFECT" to abide in the Law. Only God is perfect.....we could and can NEVER be.

Gal. 3:......
10~~ For as many as are
under the works of the law
are under the curse {of the Mosaic Law}.
For it is written {Deuteronomy 27:26},
"Cursed be all ones
that fail to keep on abiding in ALL things,
which are written in the book of the law to do them".
{Note: Break one Mosaic Law and you are guilty of breaking them all - Deuteronomy 27:26 - which is part of the Mosaic Law. To be saved by WORKS you must be PERFECT! And, only Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law. "I do not come to break the law, but to fulfill it."}

God's words.....NOT mine!

rstrats · Apr 25, 2006

linssue55,

You have a question directed to you at post #153.

YahwehisHisname · Apr 25, 2006

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk004.html#16

ThreeAM

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Mar 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he [Jesus] began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing [him] were astonished, saying, From whence hath this [man] these things? and what wisdom [is] this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Luk 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he [Jesus] entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.

Luk 13:10 And he [Jesus] was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Act 18:4 And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Apparently the early Christians were going to the synagogues because that is where Saul went to persecute them.

Act 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk004.html#16

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk004.html#16http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk004.html#16

“Zakar (Recognize, remember, mark, mention, be earnestly mindful of) the shabbath (Sabbath day, seventh day intermission, from shabath—meaning enter a state of repose—be at rest, peace, and tranquil, and celebrate) to qadash (pronounce and observe it as consecrated, sanctified, and set apart). Six yom you shall abad (work or labor) and asah (do, make, finish, accomplish, advance) all your melakah (employment, creation of property, labor) but the seventh yom is the shabbath (Sabbath day, intermission) of Yahweh your God. In it you shall not asah (do, make, finish, accomplish, advance) any melakah (normal employment, creation of property, labor)…. For in six yom Yahweh made the shamayim (lofty places, sky, celestial bodies, heavens) and the erets (earth, firmament, land, world), the yam (sea or waters), and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh yom. Therefore Yahweh barak (blessed and adored) the shabbath yom and qadash (pronounced and observed it as consecrated, sanctified, and set apart).” (Exodus 20:8-11)
It’s the wordiest commandment of the ten so rest assured it has a deeper meaning than “kick back and relax.” The commandment doesn’t even say anything about going to synagogue or church (actually, tabernacle), just “take an intermission from your regular vocation on the seventh day and devote it to Me.”

ThreeAM · Apr 25, 2006

linssue55 said:
The sabbath ONLY pertained to the JEWS of the OT......NOT the gentiles.

The Sabbath is set aside in the Church Age,
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Col. 2:16-17~~ (Exegesis)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]16.~~Consequently, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: This is refering to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]17~~ Which {rituals} kept on being a shadow[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]of those things about to come,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]but the reality is from the source of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: the Jewish Age rituals were 'shadows' of the reality that was and is Christ. The Jewish Age looked forward to the cross. The Church age looks back on the cross}.[/FONT]

The 7th day Sabbath looks back to creation and God our Creator. It is a reflection of the past not a shadow of the future. The 7th day was MADE HOLY at creation. God made it for MAN. Just like the Son of MAN has come for ALL MANKIND the Sabbath was made for ALL MANKIND.

Christ did not say the Sabbath was made just for the Jews He said the Sabbath was made for MAN.

Mar 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for Man (444), and not Man (444) for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of Man (444) is Lord also of the sabbath.

Strong's 444 Anthropos

1) a human being, whether male or female a) generically, to include all human individuals

If you are a MAN God made the sabbath for you.

ThreeAM · Apr 25, 2006

YahwehisHisname said:
“Zakar (Recognize, remember, mark, mention, be earnestly mindful of) the shabbath (Sabbath day, seventh day intermission, from shabath—meaning enter a state of repose—be at rest, peace, and tranquil, and celebrate) to qadash (pronounce and observe it as consecrated, sanctified, and set apart). Six yom you shall abad (work or labor) and asah (do, make, finish, accomplish, advance) all your melakah (employment, creation of property, labor) but the seventh yom is the shabbath (Sabbath day, intermission) of Yahweh your God. In it you shall not asah (do, make, finish, accomplish, advance) any melakah (normal employment, creation of property, labor)…. For in six yom Yahweh made the shamayim (lofty places, sky, celestial bodies, heavens) and the erets (earth, firmament, land, world), the yam (sea or waters), and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh yom. Therefore Yahweh barak (blessed and adored) the shabbath yom and qadash (pronounced and observed it as consecrated, sanctified, and set apart).” (Exodus 20:8-11)
It’s the wordiest commandment of the ten so rest assured it has a deeper meaning than “kick back and relax.” The commandment doesn’t even say anything about going to synagogue or church (actually, tabernacle), just “take an intermission from your regular vocation on the seventh day and devote it to Me.”

We are supposed to follow Christ's example. Christ assembled with others on the Sabbath tostudy the word of God.

Paul did the same.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

The sabbath is an HOLY CONVOCATION. A convocation means a sacred assembly.

Strong's 04744 miqra'

1) convocation, convoking, reading, a calling together
a) convocation, sacred assembly
b) convoking c) reading

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

jochanaan · Apr 25, 2006

linssue55 said:
I don't set up anything.....GOD does.

It is called "GRACE" as the bible say's...

All right, so you wouldn't set up anything in place of the Law, since God has already declared us under Grace, not Law. Let me propose a hypothetical situation to you: Suppose I claim that, as an aspect of God's grace towards you and me, He told me to kill you and take whatever you have to be my own. And just for fun, I also claim He told me to rape you first. Are these, or are they not, valid claims and actions under the New Grace Covenant? No? You'd want to see some evidence for my claim? :scratch:

You see? There must be a guide to our conduct, since as you admit, we are not perfect in God's eyes. Grace alone, through Jesus' sacrifice, is enough for our salvation; it is not enough to guide our continued existence as Christians.

First, there are two great commands: Love the Lord, and love your neighbor as much as yourself. But how? The Lord has given us some pretty good guidelines in Exodus 20:1-17. Of course, we are unable to keep these well enough to save ourselves! I have never denied that, nor has any other Sabbathkeeper here. But now that we are saved, we have the Spirit's power to obey the Law's precepts as He would have us obey them. (The Spirit of the Lord, that is, the Holy Spirit, was involved in their writing from the beginning--at least, if you believe that God's Spirit is God. So was Jesus of Nazareth, if you believe He is God.) And God doesn't change. "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (Malachi 3:6) For some reason He saw fit to include in the foundation of both Law and Grace a request to set aside every seventh day as holy to Him, and not to do any work on it (aside from emergency situations, as Jesus clarified). Obeying this request as literally as I can has helped me "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (II Peter 3:18, color emphasis mine) Grace and Law have worked together to make me a more Jesus-like person.

(I really respect you, linssue! But the arguments you use are flawed if you apply them too stringently.)

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

jochanaan said:
All right, so you wouldn't set up anything in place of the Law,

GRACE has replaced the Law.......

John 14:
20 - In that day (church age) you shall know that I am in My Father [ gë n tù part mou / ego en toi parti mou /: coequality of divine essence with God the Father ], and you in Me [ Ømej n mo / humeis en emoi /: baptism of the Holy Spirit with emphasis on current positional truth ], and I in you [ gë n Ømn / ego en humin /: indwelling of Jesus Christ as Shekinah Glory in the body of the Church Age believer ].

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Reasons the Mosaic Law is inferior to the Law of Grace - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] 2) The Mosaic Law has an Inferior Mediator}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]20~~ Now a mediator is not a mediator of one {many angels}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]but God is one {in essence}.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Reasons the Mosaic Law is inferior to the Law of Grace - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] 3) Mosaic Law Can Not Give Life}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]21~~ Is the {Mosaic} law then against the promises of God? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Let it NOT be SO! [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]For if there had been a law given which could have given life[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]- but there isn't - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]verily righteousness should have been from the source of the law![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The Mosaic Law was trememdous. If any law could have given eternal life, it would have been the Mosaic Law. But there is no following of any law sufficient to give anyone eternal life. All eternal life is in the Son.}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Reasons the Mosaic Law is inferior to the Law of Grace - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] 4) Mosaic Law is a Jailer - Not a Savior}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]22~~ But the scripture has concluded once and for all [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]the human race is under the control of sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]for the purpose that a promise {of eternal life}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]by faith in Jesus Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]might be - once and for all -[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]given to them who believe.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Why Do We Have the Mosaic Law? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] What is the Purpose of the Mosaic Law?}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]23~~ But before [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]The faith/doctrine came {before we were saved} [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]we were kept under the law {guarded by a jailer}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]shut up outside the area of the faith/doctrine[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which should afterwards {after salvation} [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]about to be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The Mosaic Law is for all humanity - believer and unbeliever alike. If an unbelieving society adopts the 'laws for establishment' set up in the Mosaic Law, they will develop a strong society in which evangelism can thrive. In the Church Age, bible doctrine can only be understood under the ministry of the filling of God the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers can not understand doctrine until they are saved. And, believers can not grow spiritually without the use of rebound (I John 1:9) restoring fellowship and the filling of God the Holy Spirit.}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]24~~ Wherefore the law became our 'paidagogos'[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which lead us to Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]that we might be justified by faith/doctrine.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: A 'paidagogos' was a slave that took the children to[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]school . . . an olden day 'school bus'. Coming up, we will see that until salvation we are minor children - hardly greater than slaves - at salvation we go through a change or 'adoption' and become 'adult sons' in union with Christ.}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]25~~ But after that[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]faith/doctrine is come[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]we are no longer under a paidagog.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: Means we get off the bus! See the previous verse.}
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]26~~ For you keep on being[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]all the children of God[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]through the instrumentality of faith in Christ Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Verses 27-29 Principal of Inheritance}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27~~ For as many of you as have once and for all [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]received baptism {of the Holy Spirit} [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]into {union with} Christ {spiritual baptism}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]have once and for all put on Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The 'toga' of adulthood'.}[/FONT][/FONT]

You'd want to see some evidence for my claim?
Too blashemous towards the Lord to reply.....

There must be a guide to our conduct,
There is a guide......1 John 1:9...,,The "Filling of the Holy Spirit"...This completes the Law, and then some.

The Age of Grace vs The Age of The Law

The incarnation is the landmark event which has changed the rules which define our relationship with God, in contrast to Old Testement times. The victory of Christ on the cross abrogated, or laid aside the old rules, The Law of Moses.

Jesus Christ fulfiled the law of Moses, just part of which is the Ten Commandments, and in so doing He ushered in a new and exciting period in human history, The Age of Grace. This new venue has changed drastically our relationship with God, for the Mediator has done His work and we are the fortunate beneficiaries.

Those who have any knowledge of the Old Testement have probably suffered some confusion on this count, for it is perplexing, apart from the doctrine of the transition from law to grace, just what God is about. Under the Levitical Priesthood rules believer's could literally be put to death for not observing the sabbath! And this was one of many harsh punishments for failing to observe the tenets of The Law.

Then there was the sacrificing of animals, a messy business, and other priestly rituals that had to be carried out. All of those Old Testement rules were in place because the actual work of redemption had not yet been accomplished. One might say that believers in those days recieved "credit" from God, in anticipation of the 1st advent of The Lamb of God. As such, the killing of animals was a form of "shadow worship" which represented the murder of The Lord.

Obviously, things have changed for the better, for we have the historical reality of the cross, and God is now free to pour blessing into our lives without the gaudy rituals and harsh restrictions of The Law. With these advanced blessings comes responsibility. As believers, we each are obligated to conform to our new life, our new rank, and the offices we hold as priests, ambassadors and adopted sons. However, God does not expect us to perform our obligations in the power of our humanity, which is transitory, fluctuating, and mercuracal...strong one moment and weak the next.

No, we are given a source of divine power; The Filling of God the Holy Spirit. As I mentioned, believers of other ages had only enduement, which accomplished the same end, but was given arbitrarily by God. The Filling, in our case, is a commandment, a necessity. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph 4:30

The filling of The Spirit is key to this transition because He is the "uplink" between man and God. Remember, Old Testement believers did not have this conduit which connected them directly to The Most High.

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."(Jn 1:17)

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Rom 6:14)

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Rom 7:6)

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." (Rom 10:4)

(Cont.)

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

Rebound - 1 John 1:9.....Regaining Communion with God

We are responsible to maintain contact with God, being Royal Priests in our own right. God has done the mighty work which makes our fellowship with Him possible, and it is our place to exploit grace and assure that The Spirit resides in our souls as much of the time as possible.

The endwelling (in our bodies) is absolute, and therefore unchanging under any condition, but we lose the filling each time we sin. The resultant condition of our souls is called "carnality" in scripture, as oppossed to "spirituality", which is charactaristic of The Spirit's presence.

"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ." (1 Cor 3:1)

Rather than explore the means of restoring The Spirit to our souls at length, I will refer you to the page which goes into detail on this topic, Rebound.

Mechanics of Filling - Spiritual IQ

God's Justice becomes a factor in that we must all be given an equal opportunity to comprehend spiritual information if we can reasonably be expected to apply it to life on the same terms as all other believers. Note that we are accountable to God (at the Evaluation Throne) to answer for our conduct in this life.

This parity is addressed in a doctrine called "spiritual IQ" in which The Spirit "overrides" human IQ and makes possible an understanding of spiritual matters. Luke 10:21 (below) draws the distinction between human IQ and spiritual IQ, the latter being resident in "babes", believers whose intellect is inferior.

"In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent (human knowledge), and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight." (Luke 10:21)

"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (1 Cor 2:10)

Mechanics of Filling - Transfer to "Epignosis"

The human soul has two lobes, to liken it it to the material brain, where exclusive processes occur. Both of these lobes are well documented in scripture; The left lobe, called "nous" in the Greek, is the "mind", and the right is the "heart", the Greek "cardia".

Incoming information is processed in the mind and understood, comprehended. Comprehension triggers the volition, which is presented the issue of accepting or rejecting the information as truth or untruth, valid or invalid. When rejected, information is stored in memory with the "not accepted tag", so it can be recalled in detail only, and not applied to life.

Take communism, for example, as a study subject. The student can learn the principles of this tyranical system, remember them, but prevent them from becoming a modus vivendi for life. This process in scripture is called "knowledge", "gnosis" in the Greek.

On the other hand, if the volition accepts information as true it is transfered to the "heart" as "epignosis", or wisdom. From this depository the principles can be recalled from memory for application to life.

Note the distinction between "mind" and "heart" in the following verse;

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." (Mark 12:30)

Verses which establish the function of the right lobe;

"And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?" (Matt 9:4)

"And immediately when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, He said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?" (Mark 2:8)

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." (2Cor 3:3)

Having defined the dual processes of the soul, knowledge in the mind and transference to the heart as wisdom, we can now isolate the function of The Spirit concerning spiritual phenomena in this regard. Note that there is a vast difference between cosmic information, subject to human IQ, and spiritual, which is only comprehended with spiritual IQ. The latter is only possible by the ministry of The Spirit, for spiritual matters are beyond the mental dexterity of man, as noted in the following passage;

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1Cor 2:11-14)

The "natural man" ("fleshly man") is a refernece to the unbeliever, who can hear, and even understand the gist of The Word on a human level, but he does not comprehend the spiritual import because The Spirit is no in his soul, nor can He be until the man is saved.

(cont)

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

Mechanics of Filling - Application of Doctrine (wisdom) to Life (1 John 1:9)

There is intrinsic power in this relationship bewteen man and God, divine power, which is manifest in many aspects of our lives so long as we tap the resource of resident truth in our souls as we confront the the moment-to-moment circumstances of our lives.

It should be apparent, supposing the reader had disgested the foregoing information on this page, that the configuation of God's plan for us (and we each have a customized, personal plan for our life) is supported entirely upon the grace of God. As such, our human abilities play an insignificant role so far as dealing with the details of our existence are involved. To put it another way; God provides all things and we simply tap the source. This is essentially the formula for living a victorious Christian life, to wit; Knowing God's Person, His provision, and His invlovement on an intimate level in our souls.

He designed a plan, executed the plan, and reveals the plan. Our part in this great drama of human history is only achieved to His satisfaction if we recognize our responsibilities as Christians and discharge them diligently.

"Knowing" is the key word in our role, which focuses upon learning. What we learn is The Word, into which God has placed every minute detail that we need to use in life. As explained here, learning spiritual information is dependent upon The Spirit's mentorship. So long as we expose ourselves to a source of sound Bible teaching, and are careful to be filled with The Spirit as we sit and listen, The Word of God is gradually constructed in our hearts and becomes the substance of life itself.

The Bible mandates us to assimilate "The Mind of Christ", which is the thinking of God as it was processed by the soul of "The Trailblazer", Jesus Christ. In Him, the divine standards and values of God were established and applied to every nuance of His life. In this way, in the life of Jesus, God reduced His attitudes and responses toward every category of circumstance in life to a human format, recorded them in scripture, and perpetuated the complete substance of His life in written form for our benefit.

You might say that the Bible, in textural form, is like a concentrated food substance that has been freeze dried. Within the chrystals of this concentrate are the inherent charactaristics of the Source, intact, complete, inert. As simple words-on-paper the bible is just another book. It has no supernatural properties, no special significance. However, when the written words are ingested by a human soul (a believer's soul) and the catalyst of The Holy Spirit is present in the soul, the latent power of those chrystals is released, quickened, and explode onto the terrain of our consciousness.

Although this is a spiritual phenomena, and not evident by any physical device, the impact on the thinking of the individual is profound. Yet, in a manner so charactaristic of God, even this dynamic process, the activation of God's Omnipotence, is as subtle as the cool breeze of an evening...bringing refreshment to the withered flora, soothing the overheated brow, sparing nature of the burning sun. But for our awareness of His mighty presence, we would think ourselves as worthy to take credit for the spectacular impact of our lives.

I say "so charactaristic of God" because I mean to convey a sense of wonder at how He does things. He is the deft surgeon, meticulous, perfect, concentrating His unlimited power in whatever miniscule dosages are necessary. A man with even a tiny fraction of such powers would be given to excess, and it would eventually destroy him. But God's exercise of power conforms to His remaining attributes (ref: Divine Essence). The Holy Spirit, then, is the agent of revelation, and He expands that function, as our Mentor, to helping us use doctrine effectively, even where we are not aware of a distinction. God's standards, an irresistable force, will slowly shape the believer's soul, ever so gradually. We eventually think divine viewpoint in every detail of life, and the result is a testemony to the glory of God, reaveled at the resurrection. IN the mean time, in this life, even the most accomplished of believers is transparent, unknown.

Mind you; The irresistable power of truth changes you, not on a schedule as man would have it, but as God causes it to come about. Doctrine doesn't demand drastic alterations to one's life. This phoney scoop is one area which causes millions of Christians to suffer heart burn; Everyone is asserting pressure to change! Stop smoking, stop cussing, stop drinking, yada, yada, yada. Most people think in terms of changing others to suit themselves, but a believer with momentum in his life is mellow, relaxed, and confident. He smokes and drinks and raises hell if he wants, but re-shaping himself isn't an issue which demands his attendence. The natural outworking of Doctrine in his soul will change him.

The growing believer is secure in his communion with God because it is based upon God's Word and not subject to human dynamics. In that He has loved us from eternity past, and saved us in one moment of faith in Christ, even when we were yet enemies, we have been redeemed as vile creatures. In His infinite Mind He knew each hour of our lives, the worst we will ever be, and He saved us anyway. So what is the big deal with doing good and religious activities that are no more than social schmooze? Everyone gathers around and utters stupid Christian-speak, and they fairly ooze niceness. Phoney baloney! Those same holy joes will be reeming you a new pooper next week! Savvy?

Why??? Because there is no spiritual dynamic in their lives! The best they can come up with is finite good, tainted by some degree of foilble, originating in the carnal mind. Human production has no duration, depends upon impossible standards, agrandizes the doer, is staged for effect, reeks of human schmooze good. The Bible teaches that a prolonged state of carnality produces a "disukos" (double minded) effect on the human soul, like the Jews that followed Moses. Happy one minute and panicking the next. Elated in the morning and suicidal at evening. "Split personality", that's a carnal believer.

The changes a man might make to his life are motivated by, at best, human good, But the changes God makes are motivated by His viewpoint in our souls. Changes are made effortlessly, gradually, and in full view of our volition. We consciously decide to change, but so as to conform to the divine standard, and the power to meet the standard is provided by God!

At issue in our lives is the matter of motive, the two motives mentioned above; Human vs Divine Good. This is a slippery slope for us, because the finite mind cannot visibly distinguish between the two. We can't really tell, as observers, what motive another has. Consequently, because alot of charlatans are gifted speakers, millions are bilked out of their money by smooth talk and pious imagery which they mistook for virtue. Note that the true man of God is obscure, reputable enough, but probably not suspected to be a person whose life has impact on an unimaginable scale.

The operative word here should be "vessel". We are earthen vessels, handiwork of The Master Potter. What we contain is the value we attain. You have to think about this idea at great length to appreciate the meaning. A milk carton is valuble when it has milk in it. When it's empty...we trash it.

The Word of God is the treasure that we contain, and thus of greater value to God. Even those souls of believers that arrive in His Kingdom devoid of Bible Doctrine, ignorant totally of God, will have fantastic blessings for eternity, without end ...and they are empty vessels when their time on this planet is terminated. He transforms all of us at the resurrection into creatures of light with endless life, but the Vessels of Honor, the souls that carry precious cargo, will be exaulted above all, rulers with Christ.

The means of arriving at the coveted High Ground of the spiritual life, that condition that will be parlayed into riches and blessings beyond the frontiers of imagination, is amassing the substance of Divine revelation, The Word, in our souls. The power this spiritual system runs on is God the Holy Spirit. He is our connection straight to God, no middlemen, no go between. Only our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ, stands ahead of us.

The one dimension we can insert into the vessel analogy is "volition". We, as "clay vessels", have a free will, and we have the opportunity to deposit what we will inside. The interaction of human and Divine volition is at work in applying doctrine, or learning doctrine. We make ourselves available to God as He wills (and that ain't easy did!). It sounds great, "just let God determine your life", or something like that....and that is the gist of it, but staying out of God's way turns out to be a full time job. It's amazing how difficult it is to just let God handle things. Problems especially. We want to get out the wrenches and start to work! But, when we are motivated by human good, the result is inevitablly negative.

Whatever our woes had been, remaining carnal (out of fellowship with God) only compounds them. And when the tough stuff happens we blow it; Lose our temper, worry, get ****ed, what have you. The carnal man is weak, subject to emotion, insecure in his management of life's details, uncertain of God's will.

At that point, we have to plug back in to the Power!

The plug is your soul, the socket is 1John 1:9, "The Purification Verse", The Power is God the Holy Spirit. (ref. Rebound).

jochanaan · Apr 25, 2006

Well, then, linssue, since the Holy Spirit is the guide you would have us follow, I say (not as I hypothetically claimed in my earlier post; obviously such claims go against many Grace-based principles) that the Holy Spirit Himself, along with Scripture and Christian brothers I trust, have persuaded me to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, commonly called Saturday, holy unto the Lord, not working or doing merely my own pleasure on that day, but rather focusing all my being on God and His ways. My mind is settled. This is not against Grace, nor does it contradict the description of "spiritual fruit" that the Spirit engenders in us; it increases my love, my joy, my peace and well-being, and all the rest as enumerated in Galatians 5:22-23.

Judge me as you will (who are you to judge another of God's servants?), but this is my way of following the Spirit of God and acknowledging His Grace applied to me.

That is all I have to say for now. May God bless you, and all of us.

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

rstrats said:
linssue55,

re: "STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking,
or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.
{Note: This is referring to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}"

Any thoughts on Zechariah 14:16-19 which takes place after the Messiah takes His place as King of earth? "16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord shakes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up th keep the Feast Tabernacles."

We are in the church age.....this is referring to the Millenium. A completely different dispensation. Different dispensations have different Mandates for us from God.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Verse 16-22: Fulfillment of the Feast of the Tabernacles.}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]16~~And it shall come to pass, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]that every one who is left (Those who survive the Millenium) of all the nations [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which came against Jerusalem [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] {their nations came against Jerusalem - they were believers [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and stayed home}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]shall even go up [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]from year to year to worship the King, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]the Jehovah/God of the armies/hosts, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and to observe/'participate in' the feast of tabernacles.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The feast of the tabernacles was a picture of the blessings of the Tribulation. It is a feast of relaxation/peace/inner happiness......... [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]In the millennium, Gentile believers will come annually to worship the Lord Who is now reigning as King of Kings.}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Not All Born in Millennium will Not be Believers}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]17~~And it shall be, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]unto Jerusalem [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]to worship the King, Jehovah/God of the armies/hosts, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]even upon them shall be no rain[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] {rain represented economic prosperity in an agricultural society[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] so here this is referring to no economic prosperity for the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]unbelievers}.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Example of Unbelievers in a Close Neighbor Country}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]18~~And if the family of Egypt go not up, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and come not, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]that have no rain; [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]there shall be the plague/disease[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] {a second strong warning to listen to the Lord and [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] believe His claims},[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]wherewith Jehovah/God [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]will smite the heathen/Gentiles [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]who come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]19~~This shall be the punishment of Egypt, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and the punishment of all nations [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]20~~In that day [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]shall there be upon the bells of the horses, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]'Holiness unto Jehovah/God'[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] {in the time this was written, economically prosperous nations [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] could afford to put ornamental bells on their animals and on [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] the bell was written the name of the one responsible for their [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] prosperity - that is what we have here - they recognize that God [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] is responsible for their prosperity}.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]And the pots in Jehovah's/God's house [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]shall be like the bowls before the altar[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] {another analogy to prosperity - the bowls before the altar [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]were filled to the brim with meat}. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]21~~Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]shall be holiness unto Jehovah/God of the armies/hosts.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and seethe/boil/cook therein. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]And in that day [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]there shall be no more the Canaanite [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]in the house of Jehovah/God of the armies/hosts[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] {the Canaanites were in the land before the Jews[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] they will be completely removed from the land - see Leviticus-18)[/FONT]
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/River/2773/Zechariah_14.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/River/2773/books.htm

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

jochanaan said:
So are there any limits at all on our actions as Christians? You may have seen my question regarding homosexual and polyamorous partnerships; is it also all right to murder, to dishonor our parents, to use God's name in a curse, or to embezzle from our employers? What would you set up in place of the Law?

Read post's 169, 170, 171.

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

ThreeAM said:
The 7th day Sabbath looks back to creation and God our Creator. It is a reflection of the past not a shadow of the future. The 7th day was MADE HOLY at creation. God made it for MAN. Just like the Son of MAN has come for ALL MANKIND the Sabbath was made for ALL MANKIND.

Christ did not say the Sabbath was made just for the Jews He said the Sabbath was made for MAN.

Mar 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for Man (444), and not Man (444) for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of Man (444) is Lord also of the sabbath.

Strong's 444 Anthropos

1) a human being, whether male or female a) generically, to include all human individuals

If you are a MAN God made the sabbath for you.

Correct Interpretation......

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Mark 2:25-26``And, He {Jesus} says to them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]"You have read, have you not,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]what David did when he had need and was hungry,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]he (David) and those with him? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]26:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]How he {David} entered into the house of God [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]when Abiathar was high priest [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and the 'loaves that were set forth' {artos - shewbread}, he ate > (David). .[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which is absolutely not {ouk} lawful to eat except for the priests [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and he also gave it to those who were with him?" [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27``And He {Jesus} was saying to them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]"The Sabbath . . . for the sake of man . . . came into being [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and not man . . . for the sake of the Sabbath. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: God commanded that man was to rest on the Sabbath as a blessing to him. Instead, many use it as a tool to force their will on others - 'you WILL NOT do this on a Sabbath' type thing. That is misusing God's Word. Next, in the Church Age, we are now to live 'everyday as unto the Lord'. That is a HIGHER law and better Way of life only available to "priests" - which we all are!}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]28`` 'For this reason'/'So that' [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]the 'Son of Man' {humanity of Jesus} [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]is Lord . . . even of the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The Deity of Jesus Christ is the Creator of the universe. He is Lord of all. Now also as the Son of Man, we see that His humanity, in Hypostatic Union with His Deity is also 'Lord of All'. That includes the Sabbath.}[/FONT]

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

jochanaan said:
Well, then, linssue, since the Holy Spirit is the guide you would have us follow, I say (not as I hypothetically claimed in my earlier post; obviously such claims go against many Grace-based principles) that the Holy Spirit Himself, along with Scripture and Christian brothers I trust, have persuaded me to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, commonly called Saturday, holy unto the Lord, not working or doing merely my own pleasure on that day, but rather focusing all my being on God and His ways. My mind is settled. This is not against Grace, nor does it contradict the description of "spiritual fruit" that the Spirit engenders in us; it increases my love, my joy, my peace and well-being, and all the rest as enumerated in Galatians 5:22-23.

Judge me as you will (who are you to judge another of God's servants?), but this is my way of following the Spirit of God and acknowledging His Grace applied to me.

That is all I have to say for now. May God bless you, and all of us.

The verses I have posted are PLAIN and CLEAR.......I am not God, I tell no one what to do. All I have given here is the word of God.....Scripture.....you can either believe it or reject it.......THAT is between you and the Lord, and none of my business.

The question you need to ask in the privacy of your own soul......IS do I believe the word?, or do I NOT believe the word?. Your choice.......I have allready made my decision. Have a nice day.

ThreeAM · Apr 25, 2006

linssue55 said:
Correct Interpretation......

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Mark 2:25-26``And, He {Jesus} says to them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]"You have read, have you not,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]what David did when he had need and was hungry,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]he (David) and those with him? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]26:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]How he {David} entered into the house of God [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]when Abiathar was high priest [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and the 'loaves that were set forth' {artos - shewbread}, he ate > (David). .[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which is absolutely not {ouk} lawful to eat except for the priests [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and he also gave it to those who were with him?" [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27``And He {Jesus} was saying to them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]"The Sabbath . . . for the sake of man . . . came into being [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and not man . . . for the sake of the Sabbath. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: God commanded that man was to rest on the Sabbath as a blessing to him. Instead, many use it as a tool to force their will on others - 'you WILL NOT do this on a Sabbath' type thing. That is misusing God's Word. Next, in the Church Age, we are now to live 'everyday as unto the Lord'. That is a HIGHER law and better Way of life only available to "priests" - which we all are!}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]28`` 'For this reason'/'So that' [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]the 'Son of Man' {humanity of Jesus} [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]is Lord . . . even of the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The Deity of Jesus Christ is the Creator of the universe. He is Lord of all. Now also as the Son of Man, we see that His humanity, in Hypostatic Union with His Deity is also 'Lord of All'. That includes the Sabbath.}[/FONT]

Interesting even in your interpretation Christ said the Sabbath was made for MAN not the Sabbath was made for the Jews only. I guess that settles it. If you are a MAN the sabbath was made for you. Also notice Christ did not say the Sabbath was made for "some men." Anthropos means all men.

linssue55 · Apr 25, 2006

ThreeAM said:
Interesting even in your interpretation Christ said the Sabbath was made for MAN not the Sabbath was made for the Jews only. I guess that settles it. If you are a MAN the sabbath was made for you. Also notice Christ did not say the Sabbath was made for "some men." Anthropos means all men.

You are not understanding the verse. The sabbath was made for the Jews of the OT. We are the body of Christ....Christ is higher then the sabbath......therefore WE are higher than the sabbath.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Mark 2:25-26``And, He {Jesus} says to them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]"You have read, have you not,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]what David did when he had need and was hungry,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]he (David) and those with him? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]26:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]How he {David} entered into the house of God [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]when Abiathar was high priest [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and the 'loaves that were set forth' {artos - shewbread}, he ate > (David). .[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which is absolutely not {ouk} lawful to eat except for the priests [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and he also gave it to those who were with him?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2][/FONT]
God told no one that David was rebuked for eating on the Sabbath. Why? Because..........

God commanded that man was to rest on the Sabbath as a blessing to him. Instead, many use it as a tool to force their will on others - 'you WILL NOT do this on a Sabbath' type thing. That is misusing God's Word. Next, in the Church Age, we are now to live 'everyday as unto the Lord'. That is a HIGHER law and better Way of life only available to "priests" - which we all are!}

The Sabbath is set aside in the Church Age,

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Col. 2:16-17~~ [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]16.~~Consequently, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: This is refering to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]17~~ Which {rituals} kept on being a shadow[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]of those things about to come, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]but the reality is from the source of Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: the Jewish Age rituals were 'shadows' of the reality that was and is Christ. The Jewish Age looked forward to the cross. The Church age looks back on the cross}.[/FONT]

These are words from God......deny them, then you deny the written word.

Believe what you wish, it is no concern of mine. I will say no more, I have given enough scripture. Toot-a-loo.

Wavy · Apr 25, 2006

linssue55 said:
You are not understanding the verse. The sabbath was made for the Jews of the OT. We are the body of Christ....Christ is higher then the sabbath......therefore WE are higher than the sabbath.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Mark 2:25-26``And, He {Jesus} says to them, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]"You have read, have you not,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]what David did when he had need and was hungry,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]he (David) and those with him? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]26:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]How he {David} entered into the house of God [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]when Abiathar was high priest [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and the 'loaves that were set forth' {artos - shewbread}, he ate > (David). .[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]which is absolutely not {ouk} lawful to eat except for the priests [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]and he also gave it to those who were with him?"[/FONT]

God told no one that David was rebuked for eating on the Sabbath. Why? Because..........

God commanded that man was to rest on the Sabbath as a blessing to him. Instead, many use it as a tool to force their will on others - 'you WILL NOT do this on a Sabbath' type thing. That is misusing God's Word. Next, in the Church Age, we are now to live 'everyday as unto the Lord'. That is a HIGHER law and better Way of life only available to "priests" - which we all are!}

The Sabbath is set aside in the Church Age,

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Col. 2:16-17~~ [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]16.~~Consequently, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: This is refering to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]17~~ Which {rituals} kept on being a shadow[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]of those things about to come, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]but the reality is from the source of Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: the Jewish Age rituals were 'shadows' of the reality that was and is Christ. The Jewish Age looked forward to the cross. The Church age looks back on the cross}.[/FONT]

These are words from God......deny them, then you deny the written word.

Believe what you wish, it is no concern of mine. I will say no more, I have given enough scripture. Toot-a-loo.

This post is filled with error, some of which I have refuted on another page.

But without going into much detail, I want to point out three apparent errors in your post that really nullify your assertions about what you said being "words from God".

(1) There was a point being made in Matthew. That is how the preservation of life and livelihood takes precedence over ceremonial observances.

The disciples were hungry. They decided to pick grain to eat (not a violation of the sabbath as it is not work). But because of manmade Pharisaic dogma, they (the Pharisees they encountered) considered it wrong.

So Christ gives the Pharisees and an example of how even actual biblical practices straight from the torah were broken for a greater good in circumstantial occurrences.

The example of David eating the showbread that belonged only to the priest has nothing to do with eating on the sabbath, as you say. He's giving an example of life over ceremonial observances. David and his men were going to die. They needed food. So life took the greater importance in this case. His second example was how the priests "profane" the sabbath without actually violating it because they work as ministers to the entire nation. Hence their duties take precedence over what the sabbath allowed.

Christ says he is greater than the temple. By doing so, he is establishing that even if the priests who minister in the temple do things that would otherwise be unlawful on the sabbath because their duty is more important, then how could they judge his disciples based off of tradition when he himself is even greater than they and the temple they serve in? (his point being that they don't have any qualms about these special cases, but are criticizing him and his disciples, hence they contradict themselves).

He then quotes Hosea 6:6 (which talks about having the "knowledge of God", which is what they should have had to judge rightly in this case).

[bible]Hosea 6:6[/bible]

He concludes that he is the Lord of the sabbath (meaning he knows more than anyone what is a violation of the sabbath and what is not).

He gives another perfect example after he leaves the fields and goes into the their synagogue. They asked him if it was lawful to heal a man on the sabbath (in reference to the man with the withered hand)

He then uses the Hebraic concept of kal v'khomer (meaning "light and heavy" and is used to describe greater and lesser matters of importance) to answer them -- if they would work to help even a dumb sheep on the sabbath (light), how much more would you help a man on the sabbath (heavy)? Then he concludes that it is lawful to do good on the sabbath (not that it is free for you to choose whether or not you will observe it).

And there is the point of the passage.

(2) When you stated that "we are now to live everyday as unto the Lord". This was never not true (double negative, gotta love it). This assumes you were supposed to live "as unto" YHWH only on the sabbath before, but now we do so everyday. Unfortunately, this is not in scripture. So how we live "now" everyday is irrelevant to whether or not we obey the sabbath command. Not to mention that the entire nation of Israel in what you call the "Jewish Age" (can't find this in my bible either) was called to be priests:

[bible]Exodus 19:6[/bible]

They never used this as an excuse to disobey the sabbath, however, lol.

(3) Your third and most devastating error (to your theology that is) is the argument that the sabbath was only for Israel.

So was the new covenant. So was the greatest commandment. It begins with -- well, read it yourself:

[bible]Deuteronomy 6:4-5[/bible]

Messiah himself was for Israel:

[bible]Matthew 15:24[/bible].

But once we come to him, we are grafted into that Israelite olive tree...

[bible]Romans 11:17[/bible]

(see Jeremiah 11:16-17 to know for sure who the olive tree is)

....and brought into the commonwealth of Israel:

[bible]Ephesians 2:12-13[/bible]

So even if we were not supposed to obey the sabbath, the "it was for the Jews" excuse is not a good one anyway.

I got into more detail than I anticipated, but once you get going it's hard to stop sometimes, lol.

jochanaan · Apr 26, 2006

linssue55 said:
Read post's 169, 170, 171.

I have. Some good stuff there!

And the Spirit, the Word and my own quickened mind and heart all agree that, first, setting aside one day in seven is a good thing, and second, as long as I'm doing this I might as well set aside the day the Lord originally set--not as dead law or to set limits on myself, but using this sacred time to grow ever closer to Him Who both saves and empowers me to live His life in a world that knows little of Him. Praise His Name, for He has both encouraged us to grow in grace and provided a delightful way to do so! :amen:

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath? (2)

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