Has the bible changed according to the Qur'an?

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BigChrisfilm

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http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm

Muslims should note that nowhere in the Qur'an there is even a suggestion that the Biblical text has been altered or corrupted. The word "tahrif" is never used with reference to the Bible itself. The Qur'an occasionally accuses the Jews of concealing the truth but it never levels this accusation at Christians. It in no way implies that the text of the Bible has been corrupted. In fact, the Qur'an attests to the validity of the Christian Gospels and the Torah.
 

peaceful soul

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BigChrisfilm said:
http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm

Muslims should note that nowhere in the Qur'an there is even a suggestion that the Biblical text has been altered or corrupted. The word "tahrif" is never used with reference to the Bible itself. The Qur'an occasionally accuses the Jews of concealing the truth but it never levels this accusation at Christians. It in no way implies that the text of the Bible has been corrupted. In fact, the Qur'an attests to the validity of the Christian Gospels and the Torah.

Actually I had a thread recently addressing this issue. I had considered bringing it back to life recently.

I agree that the Qur'an does not indicate that the Bible is corrupt. If you recall recently, I mentioned this on one thread. Perhaps you, Big Chrisfilm, may have remembered that. If I can recall, I did some studying maybe a couple of years ago about this issue. The corruption claim is an invention of some Mulsims about 12th century, IIRC. I guess that I will reinvestigate and disclose what I can remember.

Later.................
 
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BigChrisfilm

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peaceful soul said:
Actually I had a thread recently addressing this issue. I had considered bringing it back to life recently.

I agree that the Qur'an does not indicate that the Bible is corrupt. If you recall recently, I mentioned this on one thread. Perhaps you, Big Chrisfilm, may have remembered that. If I can recall, I did some studying maybe a couple of years ago about this issue. The corruption claim is an invention of some Mulsims about 12th century, IIRC. I guess that I will reinvestigate and disclose what I can remember.

Later.................

AWSOME, if you could find that it would help alot, thanks for your contribution! :thumbsup:
 
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LightOfEyes

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BigChrisfilm said:
http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm

Muslims should note that nowhere in the Qur'an there is even a suggestion that the Biblical text has been altered or corrupted. The word "tahrif" is never used with reference to the Bible itself. The Qur'an occasionally accuses the Jews of concealing the truth but it never levels this accusation at Christians. It in no way implies that the text of the Bible has been corrupted. In fact, the Qur'an attests to the validity of the Christian Gospels and the Torah.

The Trinity is not even mentioned in the bible and yet you believe in it. So your assumption is wrong.
 
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BigChrisfilm

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LightOfEyes said:
The Trinity is not even mentioned in the bible and yet you believe in it. So your assumption is wrong.

The trinity is mentioned in the bible, just not by the name trinity. This is why I have challenged you all to a match of read the bible vs. read the Qur'an, but no one would except. You sound like you would like to give it a shot, how about it?
 
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LightOfEyes

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BigChrisfilm said:
The trinity is mentioned in the bible, just not by the name trinity. This is why I have challenged you all to a match of read the bible vs. read the Qur'an, but no one would except. You sound like you would like to give it a shot, how about it?

You said tahrif is not in the Quran. and I tell you that the Trinity is not in the bible. I can show you many verses in the bible refuting the so-called Trinity.

Peace.
 
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BigChrisfilm

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LightOfEyes said:
You said tahrif is not in the Quran. and I tell you that the Trinity is not in the bible. I can show you many verses in the bible refuting the so-called Trinity.

Peace.

Oh, please by all means, do as you will. I will be looking forward to it.:thumbsup:
 
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LightOfEyes

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BigChrisfilm said:
Oh, please by all means, do as you will. I will be looking forward to it.:thumbsup:

Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?



Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Evidence that Jesus is not GOD and should not be worshipped.


Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.
Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:16 - No one saw God.
Isaiah 42:8 - Do not praise and worship images.
Isaiah 45:1 - "Anointed" does not mean "God".
Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed.
Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Matthew 26:39 - Jesus and God had different wills.
Matthew 28:18 - All power was given to Jesus.
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36 - Jesus prayed.
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.
Luke 3:21, 5:16, 6:12, 9:18, 9:28, 11:1-4, 22:41 - Jesus prayed.
Luke 4:18, 9:48, 10:16 - Jesus was from God.
Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.
Luke 10:21 - Jesus gave thanks.
Luke 23:46 - The spirit of Jesus was commended to God.
John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.
John 4:23-24 - Worship in spirit and truth.
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
John 5:19, 5:30, 7:28, 8:28 - Jesus was helpless.
John 5:20 - The Father showed the son.
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different wills.
John 5:31-32 - Jesus' witness was not true.
John 6:11 and 11:41-42 - Jesus gave thanks.
John 6:32 - The Father was the provider, not the son.
John 7:29, 16:5, 16:28 - Jesus was from God.
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all."
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me."
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.
Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.

Peace.




 
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Iron Lion

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Oh, please by all means, do as you will. I will be looking forward to it



......cant wait for the same old verses taken out of context that are dredged up every few months and are explained by christains only to have muslims ignore the answers and after a while just stop from posting in the thread hoping it will go away
 
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Iron Lion

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LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?



Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Evidence that Jesus is not GOD and should not be worshipped.


Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.
Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:16 - No one saw God.
Isaiah 42:8 - Do not praise and worship images.
Isaiah 45:1 - "Anointed" does not mean "God".
Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed.
Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Matthew 26:39 - Jesus and God had different wills.
Matthew 28:18 - All power was given to Jesus.
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36 - Jesus prayed.
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.
Luke 3:21, 5:16, 6:12, 9:18, 9:28, 11:1-4, 22:41 - Jesus prayed.
Luke 4:18, 9:48, 10:16 - Jesus was from God.
Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.
Luke 10:21 - Jesus gave thanks.
Luke 23:46 - The spirit of Jesus was commended to God.
John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.
John 4:23-24 - Worship in spirit and truth.
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
John 5:19, 5:30, 7:28, 8:28 - Jesus was helpless.
John 5:20 - The Father showed the son.
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different wills.
John 5:31-32 - Jesus' witness was not true.
John 6:11 and 11:41-42 - Jesus gave thanks.
John 6:32 - The Father was the provider, not the son.
John 7:29, 16:5, 16:28 - Jesus was from God.
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all."
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me."
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.
Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.

Peace.







I ask you a question, If i can explain EVERY single one of them to you as a christian belief from a christian will you accept my answer as being correct?

I wont bother waist my time if your just going to say im wrong. because i can answer every single one of them for you and show they are allcorrect and yet jesus is still god.

Balls in your court. Will you swallow your pride when i prove them all at the same time as not being a contradiction of the christian beliefs?
 
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Abdurrahim

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In the name of Allah most gracious most merciful

Some of the corrections made by Quran.

Injeel in Quran is the Gospel of Jesus(pbuh) not the Gospel according to X.

So many parts in the current Gospels are not original as you know as well .

Qur'an 4:171 Surah An-Nisaa (The Women)
O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.





Revealing Much That You Used to Hide in the Book


Qur'an 5:15-19 Surah Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
O People of the Book! there hath come to you Our Apostle revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) Light and a perspicuous Book.
Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety and leadeth them out of darkness by His Will unto the light guideth them to a Path that is Straight.
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary his mother and all everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."
(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay ye are but men of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)."
O people of the Book! now hath come unto you making (things) clear unto you Our Apostle after the break in (the series of) Our apostles lest ye should say: there came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil): but now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil): and Allah hath power over all things.





Disapprove for No Other Reason than That We Believe in Allah


Qur'an 5:59 Surah Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
Say: "O People of the Book! do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us) and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"





You Would Think It Is a Part of the Book but it Is No Part of the Book


Qur'an 3:72-80 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
A section of the People of the Book say: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back.
"And believe no one unless he follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the guidance of Allah; (fear ye) lest a revelation be sent to someone (else) like unto that which was sent unto you. Or that those (receiving such revelation) should engage you in argument before your Lord." Say: "All bounties are in the hand of Allah: He granteth them to whom He pleaseth; and Allah careth for all and He knoweth all things."
For His Mercy He specially chooseth whom He pleaseth: for Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.
Among the People of the Book are some who if entrusted with a hoard of gold will (readily) pay it back; others who if entrusted with a single silver coin will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding because they say "There is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (pagans)." But they tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it.
Nay. Those that keep their plighted faith and act aright verily Allah loves those who act aright.
As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price they shall have no portion in the hereafter: nor will Allah (deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment nor will He cleanse them (of sin); they shall have a grievous penalty.
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues; (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book but it is no part of the Book; and they say "That is from Allah" but it is not from Allah: it is they who tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it!
It is not (possible) that a man to whom is given the Book and Wisdom and the prophetic office should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's; on the contrary (he would say): "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all for ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."
Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and Patrons. What! Would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (to Allah in Islam)?


about jews :


Even after that, they broke their covenant; as a result, We laid on them Our curse and hardened their hearts. They tempered with words out of their context and neglected much of what they were enjoined. You will always find most of them deceitful except for a few of them. Yet forgive them and overlook their misdeeds. Allah loves those who are kind to others. 5.13


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran
 
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LightOfEyes

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Iron Lion said:
I ask you a question, If i can explain EVERY single one of them to you as a christian belief from a christian will you accept my answer as being correct?

I wont bother waist my time if your just going to say im wrong. because i can answer every single one of them for you and show they are allcorrect and yet jesus is still god.

Balls in your court. Will you swallow your pride when i prove them all at the same time as not being a contradiction of the christian beliefs?

you are welcome brother but realy you can't refute what Jesus clearly siad here :Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

Clearly he denied the divinity.

even if i read it to my kids. it does not need explanation


 
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BigChrisfilm

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LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

Matthew 19:16

16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Yea....right.....:scratch:


LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"


Yea, is is something I would like to call denominations.

Evidence that Jesus is not GOD and should not be worshipped.


LightOfEyes said:
Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.

28One of the teachers of religious law was standing there listening to the discussion. He realized that Jesus had answered well, so he asked, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" 29Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: `Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is the one and only Lord. (Why do you not understand that we thinkg God is one too?)

LightOfEyes said:
Exodus 33:20, John 1:18

18No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself God,[a] is near to the Father's heart; he has told us about him.(Not a very good example, lol)

LightOfEyes said:
, 1 Timothy 6:16 - No one saw God.

You have taken these verses out of context, both the ones I didn't mention are talking of the father only.

LightOfEyes said:
Isaiah 42:8 - Do not praise and worship images.

I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else. I will not share my praise with carved idols. (Sorry, I missed the part were Jesus was a carved Idol.)

LightOfEyes said:
Isaiah 45:1 - "Anointed" does not mean "God".

?

LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed.

Jesus showed us that we should pray, your point is?


LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.

However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself.[a] Only the Father knows.(Do you not even realize you have called Jesus the Son?)

LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 26:39 - Jesus and God had different wills.

He went on a little farther and fell face down on the ground, praying, "My Father! If it is possible, let this cup of suffering be taken away from me. Yet I want your will, not mine."(He willed to do the will of the father did he not?)

LightOfEyes said:
Matthew 28:18 - All power was given to Jesus.

Jesus came and told his disciples, "I have been given complete authority in heaven and on earth. (So doesn't this mean that Jesus has full athority in Heaven, even over god?)


LightOfEyes said:
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36 - Jesus prayed.

I already answerd this, why do you feel the need to say this two times?

LightOfEyes said:
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.

He was making a point, that the man was calling him God. By calling him good teacher, the man was calling him god, but instead of saying Yes, I am god, he said this, so that he would not be killed probly.

LightOfEyes said:
Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.

You already said this?


LightOfEyes said:
Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.

Yea, I wonder why he would sit next to god?

LightOfEyes said:
Luke 3:21, 5:16, 6:12, 9:18, 9:28, 11:1-4, 22:41 - Jesus prayed.

Ok, this is # 3 now? Do you have a point? Mabey you just want the list to look long?

LightOfEyes said:
Luke 4:18, 9:48, 10:16 - Jesus was from God.

Yea he sure did.

LightOfEyes said:
Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.

He sure was. Point anywhere here?

LightOfEyes said:
Luke 10:21 - Jesus gave thanks.

Yea, once again, is there a point?

LightOfEyes said:
Luke 23:46 - The spirit of Jesus was commended to God.

Because he went into hell, and only the father could bring him out. So he entrusted him.

LightOfEyes said:
John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.

He sure was?

LightOfEyes said:
John 4:23-24 - Worship in spirit and truth.

Boy I can't even believe you would put this in here, lol. I wonder who the spirit and the truth are? Ever heard, I am the way the truth and the life?

LightOfEyes said:
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.

The father is greater than the son, this is true.

LightOfEyes said:
John 5:19,

Jesus replied, "I assure you, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does.

LightOfEyes said:

But I do nothing without consulting the Father. I judge as I am told. And my judgment is absolutely just, because it is according to the will of God who sent me; it is not merely my own.

LightOfEyes said:

While Jesus was teaching in the Temple, he called out, "Yes, you know me, and you know where I come from. But I represent one you don't know, and he is true.

LightOfEyes said:
8:28 - Jesus was helpless.

So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man on the cross, then you will realize that I am he and that I do nothing on my own, but I speak what the Father taught me.(Interesting to see you definition of helpless)

LightOfEyes said:
John 5:20 - The Father showed the son.

For the Father loves the Son and tells him everything he is doing, and the Son will do far greater things than healing this man. You will be astonished at what he does.(Is there a point in there somewhere?)

LightOfEyes said:
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different
wills.

Didn't we go through this already?


LightOfEyes said:
John 5:31-32 - Jesus' witness was not true.

If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid. 32But someone else is also testifying about me, and I can assure you that everything he says about me is true. 33In fact, you sent messengers to listen to John the Baptist, and he preached the truth. 34But the best testimony about me is not from a man, though I have reminded you about John's testimony so you might be saved. 35John shone brightly for a while, and you benefited and rejoiced. 36But I have a greater witness than John--my teachings and my miracles. They have been assigned to me by the Father, and they testify that the Father has sent me.(I went alittle further than 32)

LightOfEyes said:
John 6:11 and 11:41-42 - Jesus gave thanks.

How wonderfull of him to do so.

LightOfEyes said:
John 6:32 - The Father was the provider, not the son.


Jesus said, "I assure you, Moses didn't give them bread from heaven. My Father did. And now he offers you the true bread from heaven.(Says nothing about Jesus does it?)

LightOfEyes said:
John 7:29, 16:5, 16:28 - Jesus was from God.

We already went throught this, you really only have like 10 claims don't you

LightOfEyes said:
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.

Your Point?

LightOfEyes said:
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.

Jesus told them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me.

LightOfEyes said:
John 10:29 - "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all."

Yea, the father is greater than the son, I just seem to be repeating myself over and over.

LightOfEyes said:
John 14:1 - Jesus said, "...believe also in me."

Don't be troubled. You trust God, now trust in me. (He said what now?)

LightOfEyes said:
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.

Oh my, how many tims now, 4!


LightOfEyes said:
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands

but I will do what the Father requires of me, so that the world will know that I love the Father. Come, let's be going.(And he even explains why)
.
LightOfEyes said:
John 17:6-8 - "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me."

Most of these claims come from you inability to really understand what the trinity is.

LightOfEyes said:
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.

Yea, the father?

LightOfEyes said:
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was "a man approved of God."

People of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus of Nazareth by doing wonderful miracles, wonders, and signs through him, as you well know.(It says nothing of the sort.)

LightOfEyes said:
Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.

Who then will condemn us? Will Christ Jesus? No, for he is the one who died for us and was raised to life for us and is sitting at the place of highest honor next to God, pleading for us.(Isn't it funny how you try and use thing you don't even believe against us?)


LightOfEyes said:

You too my friend
 
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BigChrisfilm

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Iron Lion said:
......cant wait for the same old verses taken out of context that are dredged up every few months and are explained by christains only to have muslims ignore the answers and after a while just stop from posting in the thread hoping it will go away

lol^_^
 
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LightOfEyes

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BigChrisfilm said:
http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm

Muslims should note that nowhere in the Qur'an there is even a suggestion that the Biblical text has been altered or corrupted. The word "tahrif" is never used with reference to the Bible itself. The Qur'an occasionally accuses the Jews of concealing the truth but it never levels this accusation at Christians. It in no way implies that the text of the Bible has been corrupted. In fact, the Qur'an attests to the validity of the Christian Gospels and the Torah.

Jesus Prophesied that people will change his teachings:

Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

 
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LightOfEyes said:
Jesus Prophesied that people will change his teachings:

Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"


Here, I can make it bigger too,


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