Is divorce among Christians ever morally permissible?

Cary.Melvin said:

I assume that the Church granted you the annulment. After all you were allowed to marry your husband. What were the grounds for granting the annulment? As far as your child goes, an annulment does not make him or her "illigitimate". All children are legitimate in the eyes of the Church. Anullments also don't make your previous marriage like it "never happened" it just determines whether it was valid and lawful in the eyes of God.

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I was assured that the RCC would grant the annulment. The priest and nuns that I met with in my sessions specifically said that it was their role to determine if in God's eyes the marriage "never happened". I refused to revise history in that way, rathering to repent my sins, and my husband and I agreed to marry outside the church - he has since been baptised and joined a protestant church.

The other day, we happened to do a spanish-language service at a hospital. One of the people in attendance was a priest who is a canon lawyer (he doesn't know my history). I thought it was interesting, and asked him what else tribunals deal with besides annulments. He corrected me that it's actually "determination of nullity" and went on to explain that they determine that in God's eyes the marriage "never happened". I quickly changed the subject, but I never did find out if there was anything else that they work on.

Constance

Cary.Melvin said:

But in order to be forgiven, wouldn't you need to repent from having the adulterous relationship (the subsequent marriage) and reconcile yourself with your true spouse?

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You know what? That is very insulting to people who have left abusive marriages.

Cary.Melvin said:

constance,
I don't quite understand why you did not go ahead and obtain the annulment. It would have given you an assurance that you were not entering into an adulterous relationship. Why risk going from a bad situation (your divorce) to a worse situation (the posibility of entering into an adulerous union)?

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The problem is that the tribunal claims the authority to tell me whether the marriage took place in the eyes of God or not. That's blasphemy. How can a man say what God saw?

I don't need an annulment, because if my union is adulterous in God's eyes, no human declaration can change that. I have done what I believe is good. If I am wrong, I have begged for forgiveness and am relying on God's mercy and wonderful Grace.

Constance

And a Catholic anullment fixes what the Scripture says HOW?

Jesus said "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery"
Now, I'm not a gender neutralist, but it's been explained to me that there's a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" interpretation to this passage.

Now, actually, my ex attempted to serve divorce papers at the same time I served divorce papers on him, because his criminal defense atty thought it would discredit the accusations against him (of sexual abuse). I'm not sure whose petition was actually granted, the state rolls them into one and I don't care enough to go look--and I really doubt God cares who served the papers either. The state divorced us. It's history, it's done. No going back:

Deut 24:
1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD.

Again, none of the parties involved are Catholic, so it's a bit of a moot point.
Constance

edited

edited.

Hi svt... Afraid you are positing a false dichotomy between "putting away" and "divorce"...

Jeremiah 3:6-10... "The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, 'Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.'"

At least as far as the LORD goes, "putting away" and "divorce" are synonymous.

And... not only that... Jer.3:12-14... "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say 'Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you; for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.

Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you; and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion.'"

Now to carry this on to Romans 7... If only the death of one spouse frees the other to re-marry, when did God die?

Shalom.. WAB

WAB said:

Hi svt... Afraid you are positing a false dichotomy between "putting away" and "divorce"...

Jeremiah 3:6-10... "The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, 'Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.'"

At least as far as the LORD goes, "putting away" and "divorce" are synonymous.

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How do you get that from this passage?

"I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce" You assert that this actually says "I had divorced her and given her a bill of divorce? Sorry, I can't see how this shows they are the same.

If you wanna know what I think, and this is from a purely non-religious point of view:

If people just married those whom they loved and trusted, and didn't rush into what's supposed ot be a lifeling commitment, then we wouldn't be having so many divorces.

That aside, I have to say i'm really against divorce, I have three cousins who all rushed into marriage and were divorced form ther husbands within less than a year, one of them even had a little infant son, and now that kid is gonna grow up without a dad, it infuriates me on a spiritual and personal level that people in general, let alone people whom I share genes with can be so irresponsible.

I think that divorce can only be considered a viable option if one or more of the following happens:

1. repeated adulturous indescresions on either side, and only after couples and marriage counselling have been tried.

2. If there is violence or sexual abuse from one partner to the next.

3. If there is violence or sexual abuse towards the children.

any other problem a marriage can possibly face is a problem that can be worked through, but people are too impulsive and give up too easily, it's saddening, really.

i do not feel divorce is right unless it is because of fornication or cheating

JContinuum said:

Of course a divorced christian can re-marry! especially in the case of one partner committing adultry which caused the divorce.

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I wish to raise my serious concern for the scrpiture you have used for your argument and taking scripture out of its context. we can not use any scripture to justify any situation without examining what other scriptures reveal.

James warns those who teach, will receive greater condemnation for leading people astray. Jesus also mentions we will have to give account for every idle word we use.

I strongly suggest examining the following scriptures to see what the bible actually says.

Matthew 5:32, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18 1Corinthians 7: 10, 11, 39 and also Romans 7:1-3 which I have put below.

I urge you to be very careful in things you put on this board. God is watching every word you use.

This message may seem hard and rebuking, but I do it with love and concern and in caution that you may not receive condemnation to yourself for misinterpreting scripture and deceiving others. Many false teachings flourishing in the Christian church today especially on remarriage, pre tribulation etc,

please take heed

In Christ
11man

romans 7:1-3
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? romans 7:1-32 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. romans 7:1-33 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Lord... Thank you for your grace and mercy.....

...or none of us would survive.

Each must take what the Holy Spirit gives. The Spirit has shown me that I may only divorce in the case of infidelity; but I am not in an abusive relationship, so I can't speak for what the Spirit may lead another to.

I'd like to say to the RCC anullment discussion that the OP wasn't understanding what Constance was saying. Her previous marriage DID exist in the eyes of God, no man may say differently; it was actions after the marriage which should be in question. What I don't get is why they would agree to an anullment but wouldn't just agree to an out and out divorce. The situation totally fit the criteria as spelled out in no uncertain terms by Jesus Christ Himself. Her husband was unfaithful, and in a way which is more of a betrayal than any drunken one-night-stand. Case closed, divorce final and legitimate, no need for an anullment.

Well, that's what it sounds like to me anyway. bC

I think a point that should be taken that I haven't seen yet is that while yes, Moses supplied a "way out", Jesus clearly stated that this was not the first choice. Malachi states that God hates divorce. We should not take it lightly. If there is a problem the first act, as any case is to pray, and the second act is to seek counseling for both of you. Meaning your first inclination should be to reconcile the matter. I'm not saying that one should be allowed to continue committing the problems, or in some of the severe cases the violence. They should be removed from the situation but that doesn't automatically mean you give up on them. Remember, God hates the sin not the sinner and certainly it is within God's power to change that person. Just as the adage "eye for an eye", a sin for a sin does not make it right. Yes God forgives, but it doesn't mean we should pre-meditate sin knowing we can just ask for forgiveness thinking it will be ok.

ChristIsTHEKing said:

I. They should be removed from the situation but that doesn't automatically mean you give up on them. Remember, God hates the sin not the sinner and certainly it is within God's power to change that person. Just as the adage "eye for an eye", a sin for a sin does not make it right. Yes God forgives, but it doesn't mean we should pre-meditate sin knowing we can just ask for forgiveness thinking it will be ok.

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If violence is involved the person receiving end of the violence should walk away and not look back.

If there NEVER

was LOVE

between BOTH,

then it's

NOT

a REAL-MARRIAGE,

and GOD

hasn't joined them together,

and they CAN seperate.

RMathison said:

If there NEVER

was LOVE

between BOTH,

then it's

NOT

a REAL-MARRIAGE,

and GOD

hasn't joined them together,

and they CAN seperate.

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Book, chapter and verse to back this up?

Sweeterthanhoney said:

Book, chapter and verse to back this up?

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Fear not, false doctrine spewed at those who are in the Spirit falls upon deaf ears. As for those who are not, they won't understand yet anyway; and when they do, the Spirit will show them the truth.