temple destroyed??

Hi all!

Parousia70 wrote:

"So, what makes messiah any different than say, Ariel Sharon?(sp?) Could He be the Messiah you are waiting For?  Will the Messiah claim to be the messiah? Is that how you'll know it's him?"

Let me requote what our very great 13th century sage Maimonedes wrote:

<P align=justify>“In the future, the King Messiah will stand up and restore the Davidic monarchy...build the Temple, gather the dispersed of Israel, and restore all the laws as they were in former times: offerings, sabbatical and jubilee years as they are commanded in the Torah. Anyone who does not believe in him or who does not await his coming is a heretic, not only against the other prophets, but against the Torah and Moses Our Teacher...Do not entertain the notion that King Messiah will have to do signs and wonders, make new things in the world or raise the dead...This is not so...If a king arises from the House of David, learned in the Torah and engaged in [its] precepts like David his father, both the Written Torah and the Oral Torah, enjoins all Israel to follow it and hold fast to it, and fights God's wars, he may be presumed to be the Messiah. If he succeeds in building the Temple on its place and gathering the dispersed of Israel, he is certainly the Messiah, and he will repair the entire world so that it worships God together...If he does not succeed, or is killed, then know that he is not the one promised in the Torah...Do not entertain the notion that in the days of the Messiah, anything will be canceled from its way in the world or there will be new works of creation, but the world will continue as it always has...Our Sages said that the only difference between the current world and the days of the Messiah will be service to the kingship of Heaven...There are those among our Sages who say that Elijah will herald the coming of the Messiah...One must not [try to] calculate when this will take place; our Sages say: 'Blast the bones of those who so calculate;' they should wait and believe.”

<P align=justify>Even though he wrote in the 12th &amp; 13th centuries, Maimonedes was merely summarizing longstanding, long-held, normative Jewish beliefs on the matter.

<P align=justify>According to Maimonedes, we will know the Messiah by what he does not by who he says he is.

As good a prime minister as I think Ariel Sharon is, he is not the Messah.

Parousia70 also wrote:

"Have there been any 'False Messiah's' come along in modern times in Israel and claim messiahship?"

There have been some famous false Messiahs in the past, most notably Shabbetai Zevi in the 17th century, but none lately.

Parousia70 also wrote:

"In what way will Messiah be diferent from David?, or any other King in the line? What will he be able to do that nobody but him could do? "

I refer you back to Maimonedes above.

"And what of the resurrection? How long after Messiah dies is the resurrection?"

Some time after, how long I don't know.&nbsp; &nbsp;

"I aplolgise for the barrage of questions but as I said, this is new and fascinating to me, I'm sure I'll have more...thanks for your understanding!"

Ask away!&nbsp; You might want to have a look at http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm.&nbsp; It's a pretty good article on the whole concept of the Messiah in Judaism.

Be well!

ssv

I would love to see where your Bible prophesies about what Maimonedes is talking about. What he says has me somewhat confounded as well. If this "Messiah" is to repair the entire world so that it worship's God together then how will the world continue as it always has...Seems to me that would be a huge change and would effect everything going on in the world. Also, isn't the "Messiah" going to usher in a new Jewish Age, where Jews are seen as superior(not that they aren't now by many Christians)...thanks...

Hi all!

jenlu posted:

"Also, isn't the "Messiah" going to usher in a new Jewish Age, where Jews are seen as superior(not that they aren't now by many Christians)"

No, not at all. We are not anyone's superiors, nor will we be when the Messiah comes. Racist chauvinism is not part of my faith.

In Isaiah 56:7, God says, "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples."

In Zechariah 8:23, God says, "Thus says The Lord of Hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

Our Sages say that both verses refer to the Messianic era.

Click on http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm and scroll to the very bottom for a list of some of the verse that we believe refer to the Messiah.

Be well!

ssv

Stillsmallvoice,

What is your understanding of the 70 weeks of Daniel?&nbsp;

Are they yet to begin?

Did they begin, yet get postponed?

Are they fulfilled?

&nbsp;

Thanks.

This topic jumped out at me and I had to reply as 1st C. C.E. Roman military history is my main interest and I sleep with a copy of Josephus' "Bellum Iudacium under my pillow in the hope of learning more through osmosis.
Came across something interesting in a past issue of Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol.7, No.2 March/April 2001). Seems a Dr. Earnest L. Martin is putting forward a theory that the traditional site of Herod's temple complex was actually the enclosure of the Roman fortress of Antonia,(possibly including a Roman temple in the center and various other presumably military/administrative outer-buildings)with the temple being some 600 feet south (possibly the traditional location of the Antonia). I've purchased the book by this gentleman and am still reading it. It's title is, "The Walls That Jerusalem Forgot"-Earnest L. Martin (ASK Publications, 2000)

The author states, and I quote..."the walls of the temple enclosure standing today are in fact the walls of the massive Roman Fortress Antonia, the only structure in 1st century Jerusalem designed to garrison a five-thousand-strong Roman legion."

His arguement, thus far sounds reasonable and he seems well studied in the traditions and archaeological science of that area. Have the Jews been praying all these years at the base of the venorated remnants of a Pagan fortress?

*shrugs* maybe...

Here's a link for those interested...http://www.biblediscoveries.com/templesite.html

Hi all!

Parousia70, my answer to your 4 questions is:

I don't know&nbsp; since I've never studied Daniel.&nbsp; I am sure, however, that the traditional Jewish interpretation of Daniel differs in many particulars from the Christian interpretation.

That I do not know the answer to your question does not trouble me.&nbsp; There's a story that in the 19th century, a Rabbi from Cracow went to his father, also a Rabbi, with a problem.&nbsp; A Jew whose beliefs bordered on the heretical had asked him a question that he did not know the answer to.&nbsp; He repeated the question to his father who offered no immediate answer.&nbsp; The father summoned his son a few days later &amp; showed&nbsp;him the answer, which was easy to ascertain.&nbsp; "I didn't show you the answer right away," the father explained, "because I wanted to teach you that in questions of faith, one need not worry if he does not have an immediate answer.&nbsp; A person of faith knows that the Torah is truth , and all answers are there.&nbsp; A question, even one with no immediate answer, doesn't shake that knowledge.&nbsp; When a person knows that the answers are there, he can live with the questions.")

Be well!

ssv&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;

Originally posted by Davester
This topic jumped out at me and I had to reply as 1st C. C.E. Roman military history is my main interest and I sleep with a copy of Josephus' "Bellum Iudacium under my pillow in the hope of learning more through osmosis.
Came across something interesting in a past issue of Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol.7, No.2 March/April 2001). Seems a Dr. Earnest L. Martin is putting forward a theory that the traditional site of Herod's temple complex was actually the enclosure of the Roman fortress of Antonia,(possibly including a Roman temple in the center and various other presumably military/administrative outer-buildings)with the temple being some 600 feet south (possibly the traditional location of the Antonia). I've purchased the book by this gentleman and am still reading it. It's title is, "The Walls That Jerusalem Forgot"-Earnest L. Martin (ASK Publications, 2000)

The author states, and I quote..."the walls of the temple enclosure standing today are in fact the walls of the massive Roman Fortress Antonia, the only structure in 1st century Jerusalem designed to garrison a five-thousand-strong Roman legion."

His arguement, thus far sounds reasonable and he seems well studied in the traditions and archaeological science of that area. Have the Jews been praying all these years at the base of the venorated remnants of a Pagan fortress?

*shrugs* maybe...

Here's a link for those interested...http://www.biblediscoveries.com/templesite.html

Click to expand...

G'day Davester here's the link to the book "The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot" on the Earnest L. Martin website: http://askelm.com/books/book008.htm

Imagine the peace that could ensure if Israel could realise there is no need to be fighting over the Dome of the Rock -seeing as its not what they think it is, as you said the temple stood some 600 odd feet south from the western wall of Antonia, over the Gihon Spring -wouldn't it make a difference.

davo

Ah, so take it you're familliar with Dr. Martin's theory. I was quite excited when I first learned of it, but purely for reasons dealing with the Roman Army's occupation of Judaea.
At this point, however, I can't determine how widespread Dr. Martin's theory is and I doubt it would change any pious Jew's praying habits, but that's not really a concern of mine.
Thank's for the link, Davo. I'll check it out.

A little off-topic, but I just checked out Dr. Martin's website and came across this article that supports the preterist belief that the city that "sits on seven hills" is not Rome, but rather Jerusalem:

http://askelm.com/prophecy/p000201.htm