Celebrity teachers and itching ears

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probinson

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Zzub said:
So, Prob, whose fault is it?

Seriously, I know you consider it to be the fault of the church, but why do you think it is like that?

Cheers,
|Z|
The fault lies directly at the feet of those that are, as Jim put it, "enamored" by these teachers that they would rather follow them than follow God. Of course, there are those teachers that WANT you to focus on them and some may even say that you HAVE to do this or that or send them money or whatever, but if we would all learn to follow God and build a relationship with HIM, "celebrity teachers" would be a non-issue. There are far too many people following teachers, friends, family, co-workers, peers, whoever than truly seeking after God. That is why we have teachers that reach "celebrity" status.
 
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JimB

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probinson said:
It's not that I don't like the subject. It's a very serious subject, following man instead of God, but I don't see the need to single out "celebrity teachers". The only reason "celebrity teachers" are "celebrities" is because people have made them that way. That's the problem. If people were following God instead of man, we wouldn't have "celebrity teachers" because people would stay focused on God.

But, it's your thread, and you can do with it what you please.
Mostly I was talking about celebrity celebrities (entertainers), although the other fits just as well. Through the years I have known several entertainers who were converted to Christ and they were, despite their celebrity, just babes. One of them, a former 50s rock-and-roll idol, admitted to me that he was very uncomfortable with the fact that, just because he had appeared on the PTL Club to give his testimony and he had some name prominence, Christians sought him out for spiritual advice. He said, “I should have been asking them for advice; not the other way around. I don’t know anything.”

And you are right, we need to keep our focus where it belongs, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

~Jim
 
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probinson

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Jim M said:
Christians sought him out for spiritual advice.

Bingo! This is exactly what I'm saying. If people sought God out for spiritual advice instead of looking to man (no matter who), celebrity teachers would not be an issue.
 
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JimfromOhio

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We live in a society that are looking that have iching ears which ties to motivational agenda more than lovers of God. Today people as did people during Paul's days, their ears itch for a soothing "word" of entertainment.

Using well-known Christians are useful but only for the sake of the Gospel for unbelievers. I don't even try to see any well-known Christians so I can "see the person". But I will go if this speaker will edify my spiritual being.

Being spiritual is to stay away from fleshy glorifications of well-known Christians and focus on spiritual matters. Its great to have well-known Christians just to reach out to those who are lost and they need Christ. Well-known Christians are great messengers for God.
 
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KingZzub

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I think something hit me while reading your post Jim. About going to "see" a person.

Surely we should be going to "hear" people, not "see" them. This idea of people seeing people is part of the problem. It should be what they say and what they reveal that excited us, not being in their audience.

Cheers,
|ZZ|
 
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JimfromOhio

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Zzub said:
I think something hit me while reading your post Jim. About going to "see" a person.

Surely we should be going to "hear" people, not "see" them. This idea of people seeing people is part of the problem. It should be what they say and what they reveal that excited us, not being in their audience.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

Ahh.. then it is no point of "going" to hear and they are not going to worry about "seeing" the celebrity. Hearing is one way and seeing is another way. What other way you want to hear if you don't know what you are seeing. When you hear someone speak, in your mind you can have an image of that person. Seeing and Hearing go together.

If you want to just "hear" ... just turn on the radio and turn off the TV. :D
 
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Christina M

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Jim M

Don't you, as a pastor, have people "clamoring" to hear you? Don't you have "youngin's in the Lord" seeking out your advice? Don't you have those in your congregation who hang onto every word you say? (All pastors do.)

So multiple your congregation by 100 or more and all of a sudden Jim M is now a much-sought-after mega-church pastor.

Since he cannot reach every person in the church each day (no human can), Jim M decides to write a book to share his knowledge of the Lord. Since he can't pastor and write his book at the same time, he asks for someone to help him write the book.

Sure enough! The book is a big hit! Yeah! Now people are flocking in to Nacogdoches, TX and lining up down the street for every service! Jim's a-preaching good and folks are saved and healed!

Then, because of the crowds, Jim M needs to build a bigger church. That takes money. So Pastor Jim starts a building fund and everyone gives him money to 'spread the Word'.

Is it Jim M's fault he is now in such hot demand...that he is now a "celebrity"? Should we now write derogatory threads about the audacity of Jim M being so famous?

:wave:
 
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JimB

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Christina M said:
Jim M

Don't you, as a pastor, have people "clamoring" to hear you? Don't you have "youngin's in the Lord" seeking out your advice? Don't you have those in your congregation who hang onto every word you say? (All pastors do.)

So multiple your congregation by 100 or more and all of a sudden Jim M is now a much-sought-after mega-church pastor.

Since he cannot reach every person in the church each day (no human can), Jim M decides to write a book to share his knowledge of the Lord. Since he can't pastor and write his book at the same time, he asks for someone to help him write the book.

Sure enough! The book is a big hit! Yeah! Now people are flocking in to Nacogdoches, TX and lining up down the street for every service! Jim's a-preaching good and folks are saved and healed!

Then, because of the crowds, Jim M needs to build a bigger church. That takes money. So Pastor Jim starts a building fund and everyone gives him money to 'spread the Word'.

Is it Jim M's fault he is now in such hot demand...that he is now a "celebrity"? Should we now write derogatory threads about the audacity of Jim M being so famous?

:wave:
Thanks for the compliments, but Jim M is just not that ambitious (thank God).

~Jim
 
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JimfromOhio

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2 Corinthians 11:21-22 (The Message)
Since you admire the egomaniacs of the pulpit so much (remember, this is your old friend, the fool, talking), let me try my hand at it. 22Do they brag of being Hebrews, Israelites, the pure race of Abraham? I'm their match.

:D

Matthew 6:16 (The Message)
"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint.

Matthew 6:16 (New International Version)
When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

There is a balanced common sense in this. :wave:
 
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JimfromOhio

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Jim M said:
Thanks for the compliments, but Jim M is just not that ambitious (thank God).

~Jim


Amen Brother::thumbsup:

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
 
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JimB

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JimfromOhio said:
Amen Brother::thumbsup:

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Thanks, Jim, for quoting one of my favorite life-managing scriptures. Would God that more preachers would memorize it.

~Jim

 
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Girly3302

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Zzub said:
It is a shocking issue.

I would take you up on the reference of mega-church pastors being part of the cult of celebrity. Yes, they can be treated similarly to people whose only talent is their talent, and are lacking maturity and spirituality.

However, there are mega-church pastors whose churches are mega because they have built them up through blood, sweat, tears and seeking the Lord.

These people are not charlatans, not fools, but people who have spend decades in the same locale preaching the same message redeeming the community.

I don't go to my Christian bookstore anymore though, there is simply nothing I want to read. I use mail order, normally faithbuilders, aliveuk or k house.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

Some of these mega churches started with just a half a dozen people.

Girly
 
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Faulty

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[I said:
BenAdam][/I]
Wow....

Have y'all seen this site?

http://www.zoeministries.com/

Alpine said:
oh my!


The Prophetic Inner Circle
For a seed of $3,000.00 you will experience the benefits of prophetic one on one coaching, direction and guidance till the end of 2006.

I think my favorite part is the 'Prophecology 2006'. "Unleash the power of the Prophet within YOU! Plan to attend this important event that will put you on the road to your destiny as a Prophet…"

For only $650 I too can learn how to sell nothing to people. Or maybe I'll go the cheap way and spend $50 for a live prophetic word "from God" on the radio broadcast.

For his sake, I hope he is a real profit, oops I mean prophet, because if he claims to be one then on judgement day he will be judged based on the requirements of a profit, er... prophet.
 
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Questioning Christian

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Here are some basic observations on modern-day prophesyings, that we see on television, and in our churches.

Prophecy, like salvation, is a FREE GIFT [to be received, not purchased] that cannot be measured in terms of dollars-and-cents values. (Acts 8:17-24; Romans 12:6; I Timothy 4:14) Second, prophecy is in operation in response to a particular need or situation, not in response to money. Prophecy is spiritual; money is carnal or natural or physical. Since God owns everything, he isn't moved to speak through anyone based on a monetary gift, or based on the promise of such a gift. He responds to condition and heart cry. (Exodus 3:1-14; II Chronicles 16:9; Jeremiah 9:23,24; I Corinthians 9:7-18) Third, the nature of prophecy is the nature of Jesus, for "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy", according to Revelation 19:10, and Jesus is referred to as the [Living] Word.(John 1:1-14; I John 5:7)

Some point to I Samuel 9:8 about the proposed offering, to the prophet, of reward. If you read the remainder of the passage and chapter, you find that the gift was not even presented to Samuel. Samuel ministered to Saul, and there was no mention of a gift being given as payment for the prophetic ministration. (Besides, if you look at the previous chapter (8), verse 3 denotes that Samuel's sons turned from his ways and took bribes as Israel's judges. If they turned from his ways, and that included taking bribes, he was not a man to be bribed. In fact, Samuel himself declared, before all the people, that, among other things, he had never taken such a bribe, in I Samuel 12:1-5 .)

Further, consider Balaam, who was approached by Balak, and how money influenced Balaam to act in accordance with the will of man. People often use tools like money to try to influence a prophet of the Lord to do differently from what God has spoken to him or her to do, and the true prophet of the Lord will say, like Micaiah said, "As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak." That control boils down to nothing more than witchcraft: using power or influence over another, not to benefit their lives, but to bend them, through manipulation, to do what you want them to do. His perversion was so noteworthy, that he was given a place among particular sins, and he had one named after him [Jude, verse 11]

Examining Daniel's situation, in Daniel 5, verses 5 through 29, I read that Daniel, in verse 17, explicitly flat refused any gifts that would influence him to prophesy, and simply proceeded with the interpretation of the handwriting upon the wall. Only upon the king's insistence, and only AFTER the prophetic ministry was delivered, did Daniel accept the gifts. (verse 29) (see also Micah 3:11 and I Samuel 8:3)

Prophecy is not OURS. It is God's. We throw it around like a toy that shines, shimmers, and sparkles, lusting for the glitter and the glamor, failing to see the preciousness of its substance and value. We are carrying the anointing carelessly. Prophecy is VERY serious. You can't run around calling yourself a prophet, and say you are prophesying, if you are not doing the true work. We need to take a hard look at Old & New Testament prophets and prophecy, before uttering one more "Thus saith the Lord". (Ezekiel 22:28)

We need to stop building reputations and names, and seek to lift one name alone (Philippians 2:5-11). Besides, when they have long forgotten us, it is He who they will remember always. We need to stop using the Spirit of prophecy for ourselves, and enter into a loving relationship with him (John 14:17; II Corinthians 13:14; Philippians 2:1). Our God is not a genie to be conjured up by the presentation of money, like a pagan sacrifice to a voiceless, faceless, impersonal idol-god. He is willing and able to make His voice heard to any hearing ears, regardless of financial status. It is the heart and situation (not the money) of the individual, that primes the pump of prophecy.

In parting, consider the story of Gehazi, Elisha's servant, who went after Syrian captain Naaman to receive gifts at that man's hand, as reward for prophesying. Bear in mind that, according to II Kings 5:16, the prophet Elisha had already refused the gifts [even at the urging of Naaman to take them]. Elsiha knew the gifts would pervert judgment. After this, Naaman, healed of leprosy, had left, and ...

II Kings 5:21-27 - "So Gehazi followed after Naaman. And when Naaman saw him running after him, he lighted down from the chariot to meet him, and said, Is all well?


And he said, All is well. My master hath sent me, saying, Behold, even now there be come to me from mount Ephraim two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them, I pray thee, a talent of silver, and two changes of garments.

And Naaman said, Be content, take two talents. And he urged him, and bound two talents of silver in two bags, with two changes of garments, and laid them upon two of his servants; and they bare them before him.

And when he came to the tower, he took them from their hand, and bestowed them in the house: and he let the men go, and they departed.

But he went in, and stood before his master. And Elisha said unto him, Whence comest thou, Gehazi? And he said, Thy servant went no whither.

And he said unto him, Went not mine heart with thee, when the man turned again from his chariot to meet thee? IS IT A TIME TO RECEIVE MONEY, AND TO RECEIVE GARMENTS, AND OLIVEYARDS, AND VINEYARDS, AND SHEEP, AND OXEN, AND MENSERVANTS, AND MAIDSERVANTS?

The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow."

Moral to the story? The story is the moral.
 
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