Tithing in Malachi 3:6. Get it Right!!

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ZiSunka

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Well, like what?

Like not committing adultery? That's a law we still live by.

Like not sacrificing our children to other gods? We still live by that one.

Like not worshipping idols? Again, we still live by that one, too.

The difference is that we do them because we love and fear God, not because we are forced to by some religious organization. We want to honor him with our minds, our mouths and our bodies, it seems reasonable to honor him with our money, too.
 
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eldermike

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Jesus set us free from sin, He did not abolish the law, in fact He made it perfect by the fact that we are free from the wages of sin by accepting the gift of His blood. The law condemned us all. And, granted, the law was never given to the gentiles but it was never forbidden either.

Legalism is not well understood:
Living as God intended is not legalism. Legalism is actually attempting to make one free of sin by works, there is no other way to look at it. Giving money is not works, not even in the OT was it works. Money had to be accompanied by another type sacrifice, a blood sacrifice, that was legalism. Asking members of a body to commit to a number is not legalism, it's planning. Telling them it's sin not to give is legalism, we are to decide that. However, giving is maturity and tithing is God's way to give to the church. So, grow up. <grin> said with love.

Blessings
 
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TruelightUK

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Originally posted by lambslove
Some people are so afraid of legalism that they won't do anything commanded by God, for fear that they will be perfoeming works of the law...He didn't rescind the tithe, and it is still in effect, not as a law, but as a show of love for Him.
Surely this is the only 'law' that we have - to love God and one another (in deed as well as word). The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has, surely, set us free from any legalistic obligation (particularly in the religious realm) - though not from the principles behind the Law, which are entirely in tune with the Spirit, who writes his laws on our hearts not on tablets of stone, scrolls of parchment or volumes of paper! Thus the idea of tithing - or giving the firstfruits of our labours into God's house - remains true, valid and binding, but not the letter of "10% or else". That's my understanding, anyway

If you are buying luxuries like eating out, cell phones and cable tv and refusing to give God even 10%, I can't imagine how you cope with the embarassment. It really says that everything else, including entertainment, is more important to you than Him.
Precisely my point in the second half of my previouds post! Where I also said that the law of the Spirit demands far more than a mere 10% from us! Just because I don't believe in slavishly following the letter of the law on tithing does not mean that I do not give 10% (read my posts elsewhere, and you'll see that I do - and considerably more besides). God loves a cheerful giver - who gives freely and willingly out of a compassionate and obedient heart - not out of a guilty conscience or externally imposed sense of obligation, grudgingly calculating the minimum he can get away with to avoid being cursed! My personal feeling is - tho' I can't come up with specific Scriptures - that we should give our whole income to God and allow Him to show how much we can 'justify' keeping for our own use. Certainly we are told that the first Christians in Jerusalem regarded nothing that they had as their own, but gave freely wherever there was a need. Sadly, many 'tithing Christians' seem to see it the other way round - make sure our needs are met before as little as possible to God!

Anthony

PS Surely what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees (and, indirectly to all his hearers) is not "Thou shallt religiously and scruplously tithe every single item in your income, to the very last cent". Rather he wanted them to know that, while, of course, it is right to give to the Temple (Church) and honour God in the 'spiritual' areas of life, such religious nit-picking is no excuse for neglecting the more important areas like acting compasionately and justly in all your dealings, and will never absolve you from failure in these areas.
 
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LouisBooth

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"Why is tithing a must, yet not other laws?"

People seem to not understand what the bible says about the law. Is it to be discared now that we are under Christ? NO!!! That's the problem. You are not held in bondage by the law anymore but we are not to throw it away like so much trash. Christ himself said he did not come to do away with the law but to fufill it. The law to christians is a guide to how to live. The standard we strive for. We don't have to keep it perfectly, but we should try to do what it says. This includes paying those that work. People in ministry work and deserved to get paid. Paul talks about this right in 1 cor. That is what your tithe goes to. As I have explained before it also may go to building costs, etc...These have been voted and said yes to by the church. Thus YOU as part of the church are responsible for that decsion. You are responsible for paying the overhead for it. This comes through your tithe. Projects and ministry opps taken up by the church are also YOUR responsibility as part of the church. That is where your tithe goes. That is why you should tithe..or do ya'll think it is biblically right to make people work for you and not pay them, or create a debt and leave it unpaid?
 
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Lambslove,

These are quotes and positions from reputable theologians and standard reference works.&nbsp;No problems here, just sound and logical truth. Saying that there are problems and proving it are two different things.

What major theologies make reference to this all important idea of tithing as you support it? &nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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ZiSunka

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Wow! For starters, the "scholar" who wrote this is forgetting the social context in which the law was handed down. There was no division of labor in the Hebrew society at that time, they were an agrarian society. What little carpentry needed to be done was done by farmers. They moved into homes that were already built in the Promised land. The only people who didn't farm and raise crops were the Levites, and even they were to tithe from their gardens.

All wealth was in livestock, land and crops. There was no cash. If you had to pay someone for something, you paid them in grain, animals, cloth, etc. There was NO money whatsoever, so saying that the law doesn't say you have to tithe from your money is so non-sequitor that it isn't even funny.

Then there are the anachronisms in this "scholarly" work you have linked to. It's so bad that whoever wrote it ought to be ashamed of their lack of research and understanding of the times and the context.

The link is junk, as far as serious Bible study goes, and I sure wouldn't be trusting my understanding of the Bible to that author.
 
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Mandy

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I was referring to the whole law, not just the 10 commandments.&nbsp; The whole law contains many commands.&nbsp; I was basically asking why we are bound to keep certain laws, but not others.&nbsp; Why are some commands to be guidelines, yet not others?&nbsp;

We are not commanded in the NT to tithe, but we are told to give and I do think that it is more important to give willingly and freely with a cheerful heart.&nbsp; I believe we should give as is purposed in our heart to give and are not bound to give a certain amount.&nbsp; I also believe that we should support our pastors with our giving as well, but I think that a tenth is not a requirement, but personally feel that it is a good standard or an ideal amount.&nbsp; I am not taking the stance that tithing should not be done because we are no longer under the law.
 
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Lamb's Love,

You bluster much over how society changes, yet you fail to produce even one Scriptural argument that shows that God changed His commandment&nbsp;at any time. Scriptures give a clear standard, but you seem to cherish your own private interpretation over them.

You mockingly question the "scholarship" of the writer who is clearly in agreement with F.F. Bruce, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Edersheim, Walter Elwell, R.C.H. Lenski, John Mac Arthur, J. Vernon McGee, Bruce Metzger,&nbsp;D.L. Moody,Charles Ryrie, Scofield, Chuck Swindoll, Merril Unger, John Wesley, Spiros Zodhiates, and John Owen.&nbsp; He agrees with the conclusions of over 20 dictionaries and commentaries on the subject. He has proven that he has the backing of church historians and the Apostolic Fathers.

I know of no major systematic theology that promotes tithing. Most do not even give it any notice. Some only comment with a short disagreement to it.&nbsp;&nbsp;You make arguments that are void of any "scholarly" value. You however seem to be an expert in criticizing&nbsp;this man's picture, the hat he wears, and&nbsp;question his credentials. In this, I have a lot to learn. In light of this could you please publish your picture and your credentials so I can take a crack at it? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 
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9-iron

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9-Iron: Didnt Paul say that other branches were broken off the vine out of unbelief then we were grafted in..And isnt the vine=Christ?

&nbsp;

Yes that is correct!!!!!!,&nbsp; Isn't tithing the only thing God said to TEST Him in?????&nbsp; &amp; &nbsp;Jesus said HE came to "Fullfill the Law, not abolish it".
 
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LouisBooth

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"The whole law contains many commands. I was basically asking why we are bound to keep certain laws, but not others. Why are some commands to be guidelines, yet not others? "

Good question. Lets look to Paul for the answer...why don't you check out chapter 14 and 15 of romans? In addition to this he talks about paying ministers for their works in chapter 9 of 1st cor. That is where your tithe goes. I explained where all the tithe goes already..so what part do you disagree with?

"I also believe that we should support our pastors with our giving as well, but I think that a tenth is not a requirement, but personally feel that it is a good standard or an ideal amount. "

I agree with this and your last statement. My addition to it is, if you have a job and can eat out, buy a movie, go to the movies, or anything else like that you NEED to tithe or you're (in my opinion and yes I will use strong language here) robbing from God. All in a church should be giving some of their income to God. If the churches needs are not met, then someone is not doing there job in tithing.


"In light of this could you please publish your picture and your credentials so I can take a crack at it? "

Can...That in and of itself is not a christian attitude. She is entitled to her opinoin even if I or you disagree with it. Please, as a christian, appologize.
 
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ZiSunka

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Originally posted by Candidus
Lamb's Love,

You bluster much over how society changes, yet you fail to produce even one Scriptural argument that shows that God changed His commandment&nbsp;at any time. Scriptures give a clear standard, but you seem to cherish your own private interpretation over them.

You mockingly question the "scholarship" of the writer who is clearly in agreement with F.F. Bruce, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Edersheim, Walter Elwell, R.C.H. Lenski, John Mac Arthur, J. Vernon McGee, Bruce Metzger,&nbsp;D.L. Moody,Charles Ryrie, Scofield, Chuck Swindoll, Merril Unger, John Wesley, Spiros Zodhiates, and John Owen.&nbsp; He agrees with the conclusions of over 20 dictionaries and commentaries on the subject. He has proven that he has the backing of church historians and the Apostolic Fathers.

I know of no major systematic theology that promotes tithing. Most do not even give it any notice. Some only comment with a short disagreement to it.&nbsp;&nbsp;You make arguments that are void of any "scholarly" value. You however seem to be an expert in criticizing&nbsp;this man's picture, the hat he wears, and&nbsp;question his credentials. In this, I have a lot to learn. In light of this could you please publish your picture and your credentials so I can take a crack at it? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

God didn't change his commandment.&nbsp; Tithing is still in effect.&nbsp; It's society that has changed and the way people trade and do business.&nbsp; Now we do it with cash, back then they did it with livestock and produce.&nbsp; That's why God talked about tithing from the livestock and produce, not from money, BECAUSE MONEY HADN'T BEEN INVENTED YET.&nbsp; How stupid would it have been to give people instructions about tithing from their cash, when there was not such thing!

Actually, all of those scholars you cited do not believe in tithing as a law, but as a principal.&nbsp; Read their writings.

I did abreviate my real thoughts, because I thought that a person who would link to such a flimsy website probably wouldn't be able to understand a well-thought out but extensive discussion.

What ARE that man's creditentials, anyway?&nbsp; Went to a liberal seminary, huh?
 
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aggie03

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Tithing is not still in effect. Tithing was required under the old covenant. If you are going to start enstating the law and making others live by it then you nullify the blood of Christ. If you are going to live under one part of the law then you must live under the entire law - Paul covers that well in Hebrews - you might as well force everyone to be circumcized on the eighth day, to bring sacrifices unto an altar, to only be able to travel about 1/2 a mile on the Sabbath, et cetera.

Christ died to the law so that through Him we might die to the law. We are under a new covenant through the blood of Christ.

The fact that tithing is not still in effect is clearly evident from the actions of the early Christians - take the First Apology by Justin Martyr for example:

And they who are well to do, and willing, gives whateach thinks fit...

-- Chapter 67

This makes it obvious that they didn't tithe. Paul tells us the same thing, that we should each give according to our ability and with a joyful heart. We know that the first centruy Christians didn't tithe, we know that they apostles tell us not to tithe - so why would we? -- why should we?

Tithing is not commanded, but giving with a cheerful heart is.
 
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mtucker

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Originally posted by aggie03
There is no mention of 10% or any number in the New Testament, but rather we are commaded to give with a cheerful heart, and as much as we can do with a cheerful heart. I have some verses on this, but I'll have to look them up - then I guess I'll edit this post.

On that note, break out the crack pipes!!! They're not in the New Testament!
 
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ZiSunka

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Or why not sacrifice our children to foriegn gods, since that's not in the NT either?

Again, tithing as a law is no longer in effect, but tithing as a priciple IS something that was blessed by Jesus in Matthew 23:23.

Same way with adultery. No longer a law, but a necessary principle to live by. We won't be stoned to death under the law, but we will be answering to God for it eventually.
 
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aggie03

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The reason that the 10% law of tithing does not appear in the New Testament is because it was replaced with the command to give with a cheerful heart, each to their ability. This was the COMMAND. This is what was practiced by the first century Christians. This is why we don't tithe now.

Break out the crack pipes! They're not in the New Testament

No the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you shouldn't smoke a crack pipe. But it does say that you are to make your body a living sacrifice well-pleasing to God. That would nulify your crack pipes, and that's before we even get into the leaglistic matters about them.

Or why not sacrifice our children to foriegn gods, since that's not in the NT either?

Umm, yes it is. Christ says that we are to have no god before the Lord - this covers the ritualistic sacrifice of your children. Not to mention the whole love your neighbor as yourself command - I think that would rule out sacrifices as well.

Again, tithing as a law is no longer in effect, but tithing as a priciple IS something that was blessed by Jesus in Matthew 23:23.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!"

-- Matthew 23:23,24

I don't understand how you can say that this is Christ blessing tithing in the New Covenant. You have to remember at the time the Pharisees - and all the other Jews - were still living under the Old Covenant. This is why they were still tithing. When Christ was crucified He died to the law, and when we are baptized into Him we die to the law through Him. I am under the New Covenant, and there is no command for me to tithe, but rather to give as my ability allows with a cheerful heart.
 
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LouisBooth

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Well if you're going by that logic aggie, then you SHOULDN'T eat pork..etc...There are many levitical laws NOT addressed by Christ. Does that mean you should do them, or not do them? nooo...Its talking about being senceable. We should still tithe and the 10% rule is the best one because if done it is proven (see OT) to provide for the church and its workers.
 
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