why is the bible harsh towards women?

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JordanF

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Dylan_Chica said:
i mean of course god loves everyone but as a woman reading the bible i do notice things that kind of put men before women and sometimes view us in less flattering ways than men. i have always wondered this and it makes me a little sad and i thought this would be the right place to finally look for some answers.
The Bible is not harsh toward women. Men and women are equal, but they have different roles within the Church. At first it seems as if men have always oppressed women, but the role of women in the Church is very important. There are qualities women have by nature that men never attain (loving as a mother, caring, etc.).
This role of women in Church is the Biblical and Traditional teaching, and exists for a reason (balance, I guess).
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Dylan_Chica said:
i mean of course god loves everyone but as a woman reading the bible i do notice things that kind of put men before women and sometimes view us in less flattering ways than men. i have always wondered this and it makes me a little sad and i thought this would be the right place to finally look for some answers.

The short answer is that:

Woman was made as a helpmate for man.

Wife is to be ruled by husband.

Wife is to submit to husbands authority.

Woman was made for man.

Wife has many duties and responsibilities. (Proverbs 31)

This means all women, not just those in the church.

God created woman to be under the authority of man.

Any equality that women had was removed by God as a result of Eve's transgression. Part of her punishment is to be ruled by her husband.
 
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RenHoek

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A. believer said:
Perhaps you might want to remember to use capital letters when making that point. ;) QUOTE]

^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

Genesis 3:
16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
Sounds like punishment to me. This verse is between His curse on the serpent, and Adam.

Please do not take this as an argument starter, or an attack, but do any of the women here find it at all audacious to question the Lord of all creation and His perfect intent? There are numerous scriptures, front to back, OC and NC to show women their role (men have roles too). Why do people not trust God and grumble about the manna?
 
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Strong in Him

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RenHoek said:
Genesis 3:
16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
Sounds like punishment to me. This verse is between His curse on the serpent, and Adam.

Please do not take this as an argument starter, or an attack, but do any of the women here find it at all audacious to question the Lord of all creation and His perfect intent? There are numerous scriptures, front to back, OC and NC to show women their role (men have roles too). Why do people not trust God and grumble about the manna?

I don't see what you're saying in relation to this verse. There are some women who are single and don't have children - how does it apply to them? It seems from this as though pain in childbirth is a punishment for sin. Well I don't have any children, and I happen to believe that Jesus died for my sin.

With regards to men ruling over us and submitting to them; well yes, up to a point. I mean, firstly this verse is about a relationship between husband and wife, it's not an instruction for every situation in life. For a woman to refuse to take a job which would involve having men working for her, on the basis of this verse would, IMO, be wrong. God calls women and gives us gifts just as much as he does men.
Secondly, the man has to want, and be able to, take responsibility, make decisions and "rule over". And I can tell you from experience that some aren't!
Thirdly, submission does not mean the man does what he wants and expects the woman to fall into line. When we were preparing to get married, the vicar told us that "obey" means that you discuss all matters and forthcoming decisions, but if you are in a position whereby you can't make up your minds and either of two options looks good, then it the man who has the last word and makes the choice, and the woman who supports him in that choice. Even if, when things go wrong, she is tempted to think "I bet the other choice would have been better." Or to nag him for having got it wrong.

God has created, saved, chosen and called both men and women. He has a plan for each of us. He wants us all to love and serve him; to do what he has called us to do, and to be the people he wants us to be.
 
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-Kyriaki-

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And if the calling is not purely something felt, but something evident in their lives? I know women who, by no action of their own, find people of both genders coming to them for teaching and pastoring. Should they turn the men away saying that it is not for them to teach? Sometimes the people that come to them have nowhere else to go, for whatever reason, and all have been blessed by the "pastoring" of these women. And no, they're far from the feminists that many people make women pastors out to be. They are pastors in all but name - is it the title that they cannot take? God gave them the gifts that they had, and brings people into their lives for them to look after. Are we questioning His decision?
Much of the "women should not be pastors" seems to revolve around whether they can preach from the pulpit or not...which annoys me. Do people seriously think that preaching from the pulpit is the only (or most important!) thing there is to being a pastor?
 
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Dylan_Chica

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oldwiseguy said:
The short answer is that:

Woman was made as a helpmate for man.

Wife is to be ruled by husband.

Wife is to submit to husbands authority.

Woman was made for man.

Wife has many duties and responsibilities. (Proverbs 31)

This means all women, not just those in the church.

God created woman to be under the authority of man.

Any equality that women had was removed by God as a result of Eve's transgression. Part of her punishment is to be ruled by her husband.

NO!!! this is NOT true!!!
tell me why it is the truth that i should be ruled by a man? i am just as independent as a man is and i have my own fate and destiny! do you understand? being born a girl doesn't mean you can't do what a man can do, in today's society we are equal and and i'm as independent as you are!
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Dylan_Chica said:
NO!!! this is NOT true!!!
tell me why it is the truth that i should be ruled by a man? i am just as independent as a man is and i have my own fate and destiny! do you understand? being born a girl doesn't mean you can't do what a man can do, in today's society we are equal and and i'm as independent as you are!

RE: Galations
 
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-Kyriaki-

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Oldwiseguy the Proverbs 31 passage has many tasks in it that don't fit with the "submissive" woman anyway - she is a businesswoman, she does things of her own accord (which her husband praises her for!) and she brings glory to him by the works that she does. works that are more than just within the home, as well.

much of the teaching about "submissive women" says that men are those that rule over and have the final say including owning property. how does that fit with how she 'considers and field and buys it' - not 'considers a field, consults her husband and lets him make the decision and purchase'

don't get me wrong - i think submission is a beautiful thing, within marriage, but the way some people preach it is distorted.
 
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RenHoek

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Strong in Him said:
I don't see what you're saying in relation to this verse. There are some women who are single and don't have children - how does it apply to them? It seems from this as though pain in childbirth is a punishment for sin. Well I don't have any children, and I happen to believe that Jesus died for my sin.

With regards to men ruling over us and submitting to them; well yes, up to a point. I mean, firstly this verse is about a relationship between husband and wife, it's not an instruction for every situation in life. For a woman to refuse to take a job which would involve having men working for her, on the basis of this verse would, IMO, be wrong. God calls women and gives us gifts just as much as he does men.
Secondly, the man has to want, and be able to, take responsibility, make decisions and "rule over". And I can tell you from experience that some aren't!
Thirdly, submission does not mean the man does what he wants and expects the woman to fall into line. When we were preparing to get married, the vicar told us that "obey" means that you discuss all matters and forthcoming decisions, but if you are in a position whereby you can't make up your minds and either of two options looks good, then it the man who has the last word and makes the choice, and the woman who supports him in that choice. Even if, when things go wrong, she is tempted to think "I bet the other choice would have been better." Or to nag him for having got it wrong.

God has created, saved, chosen and called both men and women. He has a plan for each of us. He wants us all to love and serve him; to do what he has called us to do, and to be the people he wants us to be.

Was responding to post #63. I can agree with everything in you post but the bold/underlined. I cannot strictly disagree with this, but I see no support for it in scripture. This is not to say that God will not use women mightily, but it seems to me that the man is who He has chosen to work through the majority of the time.

It seems to me that the insecure are not comfortable in the role God has called them to fulfill. Be strong sisters and fulfill your purpose in the kingdom, which is why God gave you that post. If God told me to be a horse dooky picker upper, I would grab a shovel and go. Not to compare your lot to that, but I think you can see where I am going.
 
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-Kyriaki-

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RenHoek said:
It seems to me that the insecure are not comfortable in the role God has called them to fulfill. Be strong sisters and fulfill your purpose in the kingdom, which is why God gave you that post. If God told me to be a horse dooky picker upper, I would grab a shovel and go. Not to compare your lot to that, but I think you can see where I am going.

i couldn't resist replying. what if their purpose doesn't fit the "Women are not allowed to be pastors" rule? what if their calling and post is to care for and shepherd a flock?
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Kyrie said:
specifically?

Listen, all of you. The law is not wrong. Grace is all right.
We are all one in Christ, neither male nor female, Jew, Greek or otherwise. The Holy Spirit indwells HIS believers and who are we to say how HE can act.
 
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RenHoek

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Kyrie said:
i couldn't resist replying. what if their purpose doesn't fit the "Women are not allowed to be pastors" rule? what if their calling and post is to care for and shepherd a flock?
What if their human mind has misconstrued the calling God gave them? We can what if forever, but I feel we should stick to the Word.
 
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RenHoek

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Citizen of the Kingdom said:
Listen, all of you. The law is not wrong. Grace is all right.
We are all one in Christ, neither male nor female, Jew, Greek or otherwise. The Holy Spirit indwells HIS believers and who are we to say how HE can act.
Spiritually, yes. Earthy bodies are male and female and they come with separate instructions.
 
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