America Beware - Christian Be Ready

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Ben johnson

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Ezekiel 38 will occur right after the rapture, and the rapture will cripple the U.S.A.. With the Church gone, and America on her knees, who will lead this war against the terrorists?
I believe the rapture will occur right after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31)
Hmph! You beat me! ;)

If we are to be "raptured away from the Tribulation", why does Jesus admonish us to "pray for strength to 'Katischuo-ekphuego' (flee OUT OF) the Trib"? Why is the "First Resurrection" (whicn seems to mean the first "great-or-mass" resurrection), in Rev20:4-6, at the END of the Trib, and "we who are alive-and-remain shall not proceed the dead---the dead will be raised first..." in 1Thess4?

I think you're right, Thunder. I think we are at the very threshold of the end-of-the-age. But, since Scripturally we are to be HERE for the Tribulation, we should be aware of concentration camps, slaughter-houses, structures and places said to be already built.

"They will beat you and kill you, and you will be hated for My namesake. Do not worry about what to say, for I will give you utterance and wisdom that none can refute. Yet not a hair on your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your PSUCHE-SOULS!"
 
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rollin thunder,
I believe you are on to something. You're right christians shouldn't allow the satanic spirit of fear to operate in our lives. I believe the bible teaches we will be raptured just before the tribulation. 1 thessalonians 5:9 we have not been appointed unto wrath. God also delivered Lott from Sodom and Gamoroh before He destroyed the cities. And Noah in the ark before the flood. Is'nt that exciting?
 
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GraftMeIn

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I agree I think God is gathering the Nations together in one place. Setting the groundwork of what is to come. I'm still undecided on if we will be raptured pre, mid, or post trib though. I figure I'll be prepared to wait for post, but I'll also be more than ready if God wants me any sooner! That way no matter what happens I wont be dissapointed :)
 
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Ben johnson

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1 thessalonians 5:9 we have not been appointed unto wrath
"For God has not destined us for wrath, BUT for obtaining salvation through Jesus Christ..." Thesis/antithesis. Did Jesus die to save us from the Tribulation? Does "wrath" ever mean, "Hell"? (Rm2:5-8)
I figure I'll be prepared to wait for post, but I'll also be more than ready if God wants me any sooner! That way no matter what happens I won't be dissapointed...
AWESOME attitude!!! :D

Me too!!!

:)
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Originally posted by AlanSmith
rollin thunder,
I believe you are on to something. You're right christians shouldn't allow the satanic spirit of fear to operate in our lives. I believe the bible teaches we will be raptured just before the tribulation. 1 thessalonians 5:9 we have not been appointed unto wrath. God also delivered Lott from Sodom and Gamoroh before He destroyed the cities. And Noah in the ark before the flood. Is'nt that exciting?

Hi Alan,
I believe you are on to something too!! Now all we have to do is hold on to it. I've been crucified with Christ, so why should I have to die again?? I believe that if you are born again, there is no more any such thing as death. We simply pass from life to life everlasting. Some people think that Jesus is going to beat His bride before He takes her to the wedding feast. This fish is not bitin' on that. Nice meeting you Alan, and I'll see ya there!!
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Hi Mandy,
I was wondering what ever happened to you. I haven't seen you in a while. I see you got another promotion!! Wow, Senior Administrator!! Congradulations Sister!!

But does that mean you won't be posting as much??
I hope not. We could use more of your kind down here.
 
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postrib

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...I believe the bible teaches we will be raptured just before the tribulation...
Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). We Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).

...1 thessalonians 5:9 we have not been appointed unto wrath...
Note that during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials (Revelation 15:1).

The vials contain God's wrath (Revelation 16), yet not one of them is directed at us Christians. I believe we are even blessed at the 6th vial (Revelation 16:15), that we might endure to the 1,335th day (Daniel 12:12).

...Some people think that Jesus is going to beat His bride before He takes her to the wedding feast...
Will Jesus himself be the one beating up the Christians in the tribulation? Didn't Jesus let his bride go through the days of persecution and martyrdom under the Roman emperors? How will our tribulation under the Antichrist be any different? Can any suffering and death ever really harm the bride? "Some of you shall they cause to be put to death... But there shall not an hair of your head perish" (Luke 21:16, 18).
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Originally posted by postrib
Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). We Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).

Hello postrib,
Matt. 24:29-31 is not the rapture. You are confusing the two events. Lets take a look at it.

Matt.24: 29-31 - "Immediately after the distress of those days "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken." (30)At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. (31)And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Point one - Although this describes an event after the tribulation, it is not the rapture. How can Christ come like a thief if everyone sees Him coming?

Point two - The rapture will not be seen, it will happen in the twinkling of an eye. In other words,(faster than you can blink).

Point three - Look in verse 31 and see where the angels are gathering from. They gather from the the winds and heaven. How can we already be in heaven, even before the angels gather us?
 
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postrib

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...How can Christ come like a thief if everyone sees Him coming?...
Note the "if" in the following verse: "IF therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Revelation 3:3). Paul confirms that if we watch for that day it will not overtake us as a thief: "Yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night... But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief... let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch" (1 Thessalonians 5:2, 4, 6).

It's possible to know at what time a thief is coming: "Know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready" (Matthew 24:43-44).

Knowing when Jesus will come like a thief will help us believers (Matthew 24:43-44), but it will not help the devil or any of his followers. In his overwhelming power, Jesus will nonetheless "overtake" them like a thief (2 Thessalonians 5:4): "No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house" (Mark 3:27, compare Revelation 20:2).

...The rapture will not be seen, it will happen in the twinkling of an eye...
Note that the only thing the Bible says happens "in the twinkling of an eye" is the changing of the bodies of the living Christians into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Jesus' coming at the rapture includes much more than that. It includes first the descent of Jesus from heaven with the saints who died (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), then the sounding of the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16), then the resurrection of these saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16), then the changing of living believers into immortal bodies, and finally the gathering together of all the resurrected saints and all those changed into the clouds where Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

...How can we already be in heaven, even before the angels gather us?...
Note that at the 2nd coming some of us elect will still be "alive and remain" (1 Thessalonians 4:15) on the earth: "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect (eklektos) from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" (Mark 13:27).

"Elect (eklektos) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:2).
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Originally posted by postrib

It includes first the descent of Jesus from heaven with the saints who died (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), then the sounding of the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16), then the resurrection of these saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16), then the changing of living believers into immortal bodies, and finally the gathering together of all the resurrected saints and all those changed into the clouds where Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

Hello postrib,

I am not going to mess with all you put here. You bit off more than I care to swallow. But I will point out a couple of things where we differ.

The first thing I notice right off, with my tired eyes, is you have the dead in Christ descending with Jesus. This is clearly not right.

1 Thes.4:16 says that the dead will rise, which means their bodies will rise from their graves. And the second thing : You have Jesus descending first, and then the sounding of the last trump. But Jesus will descend with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God.

 
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Originally posted by postrib
Note that it says the spirits of the dead in Christ will descend "with" Christ from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:14) and their bodies will be resurrected (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

postrib,

My Bible doesn't say that. Are you sure you're not trying to fit the scripture into your view?? Mine has no mention of the word descend or any word like it, but verse 16 clearly shows that the dead in Christ will rise first, first meaning: before the living rise.

I'm not here to debate you on this. It's clear that we have two different understandings, and that's okay. I'm not trying to force my view on you, or anyone else for that matter. Take it or leave it. But, someone else will probably come along and want to debate you on it. I'm not a good enough typer, and I don't always have the time needed to do that.

 
 
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Mandy

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Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Hi Mandy,
I was wondering what ever happened to you. I haven't seen you in a while. I see you got another promotion!! Wow, Senior Administrator!! Congradulations Sister!!

But does that mean you won't be posting as much??
I hope not. We could use more of your kind down here.

 

Thanks rollin!

I'm still around.  :)

Just seems like I have gotten involved in so many threads that I forget where I posted.;):D
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Originally posted by postrib
How do you understand: "them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him?" (1 Thessalonians 4:14)

If you read verse 13, then you can see that he was trying to comfort those that were worried about what would happen to their loved ones that had already passed on. So, all he was really trying to tell them was that the dead would not be forgotten, and they will be there too. Jesus went to prepare a place for all who believe in Him. I hope that helps postrib. See ya later
 
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