Does todays Isreal have the backing of god and bible prophesy as a sign of the end??

Patmosman_sga · Jun 20, 2002

It is obvious that you are the one who has no earthly idea of what eschatology is about. In actuality, the Anglican/Wesleyan approach is much more holistic and optimistic about the age to come than the shallow, one dimensional, pop culture "pre-trib" dispensationalist fatalism that has infected so much of American Christianity.

It doesn't appear that you are interested in holistic eschatology, but in the unlikely event that you might want to read a serious treatment on the subject, here's a good place to start:

http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/wright.htm

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 21, 2002

Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
It is obvious that you are the one who has no earthly idea of what eschatology is about. In actuality, the Anglican/Wesleyan approach is much more holistic and optimistic about the age to come than the shallow, one dimensional, pop culture "pre-trib" dispensationalist fatalism that has infected so much of American Christianity.

It doesn't appear that you are interested in holistic eschatology, but in the unlikely event that you might want to read a serious treatment on the subject, here's a good place to start:

http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/wright.htm

Patmosman,
I read your link. I believe it is doctrine of demons. You are following the teachings of mere men, when you should be guided into all truth by the one and only Holy Spirit, especially if you are calling yourself a Pastor. I think it is so sad that the leaders of churches in these last days have to rely on what other men think, instead of the great truths offered through the Spirit. If God has called you to be a Pastor, then why not follow His lead?? The problem as I see it is that too many men are appointing themselves Pastors, instead of waiting on the Lord to call them. Yeah- it's a nice easy job where you can make a lot of money, and you don't have to even get your hands dirty, or do any physical labor, but it's nothing but the blind leading the blind, and legal robbery.

It's a shame that people have to follow such nonsense. To think that this man is trying to teach that Paul was trying to fit his gospel into the cultic gentile empire of Rome, watering it down to the point where it could be accepted in a pagan world, like Paul was somekind of little chicken for God. No way!! Paul was very bold and willing to die for what he believed. These apostles were were flogged and imprisoned and eventually martyred for the preaching of the gospel. And it wasn't Paul's gospel, it was Christ's, the one that is worth dying for.

A person who believes that the gentile christians are the new Israel is nothing but deceived. I sure hope the members of your denomination are few in number. We were commanded to be watching and waiting for our Lord, and to stay ready, but it doesn't appear that is what you are preaching.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 21, 2002

One more thing I forgot to mention. Since you say that the church is now Israel, I was wondering if you are teaching Preterism?? I remember the preterists also thought they were Israelites.

celtic_crusader · Jun 23, 2002

I have a question for you Pat.

your explination of the rapture sounds more sensible but it doesn`t apear that way to me in pauls scripture. can you explain to me how these scriptures are in the same context as what you explained about being caught up in his presence in our wicked generation.???

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When I look at this verse Pat;

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

how does that fit into your explination mate.

Celtic.

Yauming · Jun 26, 2002

Hello Everyone,

Please use a little bit more Christian civility in your postings. "Do unto them as you wish they do unto you" (Unless you are a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

).

So please craft your posts carefully using more Christian love and restraint.

God bless you all,

YM

celtic_crusader · Jun 28, 2002

If the Arab nations were the ones with the might and the power to decide what to do with the state of Israel, what would be there actions?

ETHNIC CLEANSING!!!!!

If Israel did half of what the Arabs would do (if they could) , terrorism would be gone from Israel.

If we dont wake up and see that the Arab world is still at war with the west from crusader times, then we are going to be at war again with a people that are totally against our own culture. They are a threat to our culture. We are to nice, we need some ruthless generals born in the western world to help establish "OUR CULTURE" because we can be shore that if the Arabs get control on the world scene, that things are going to be very brutal and terribly ignorant.

The catch 22 is that if we loose our goodness to destroy them, what will come of "our " culture.

Either way, there is defiantly a big war coming between Moslem and Christian "AGAIN".

The crusader.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 29, 2002

Hi celtic,
I'm back with more evidence. Remember that I said that the population in Israel would soon grow, when God brings those lost tribes back to their land?? Check this out.

Isaiah 49: 11-12 - "I will turn my mountains into roads, and my highways will be raised up. (12)See, they come from afar-- some from the north, some from the west, some from the region of Aswan."

Now look at this, a little farther down.

Isaiah 49: 19-21 - "Though you were ruined and made desolate and your land laid waste, now you will be too small for your people, and those who devoured you will be far away. (20)The children born during your bereavement will say in your hearing, "This place is too small for us; give us more space to live in." (21)Then you will say in your heart, "who bore me these? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up? I was left all alone, but these--where did they come from?"

celtic_crusader · Jul 1, 2002

Isaiah does seems to be refering to the second exile hear thunder , what I also notice is Gods ashorance that the nation of Isreal will not be forgotten by him.

read these two verses.

14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

I like this to.

19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?

22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?
25 But thus saith the LORD, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.
26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

I recon this could very well be what is happening over the last 80 or so yrs to Isreal

Celtic.

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 2, 2002

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Hi celtic,
I believe that God is the force behind bringing the Lost tribes back to the land that He scattered them from. I think you are right on in most of your observations. Perhaps Israel, the two northern tribes are already in place. But I believe that there is still ten tribes still scattered, (Judah).

I have talked to some American Jews, in fact one is on my bowling team. He insists that he will never have any desire to go back to the promised land. He has never seen it personally and doesn't even want to. He says, "I'm an American". He loves America, but I believe that will change very quickly after the rapture. We have millions of Jews in America. These twelve tribes were scattered all over the face of the earth. Most are still scattered, but God said He would bring them all back. What event could force them to go back?? The rapture of course. That is a no brainer. When the world economy collapses, Israel will start to be very attractive to the Jews, and especially after they will appear to have a guaranteed peace deal worked out.

The land of Israel that we see today is not the same Israel that God gave them. They only occupy a small piece of the promised land. God also promised that never again would the Jews be forced out of that land after He gathers them back into their land. They are there to stay, but they are also blinded spiritually. But I believe after the abomination that causes desolation, Israel will finally mourn for and recognize the one that they pierced 2000 years before was their true Messiah, and they will be saved. But it will not be pretty by any means. In the tribulation, and after the tribulation saints get martyred, the whole entire world will hate the Jews and they will bring their armies to the war of all wars, Armageddon.

VERY GOOD POST! :clap:

rollinTHUNDER · Jul 2, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader
Isaiah does seems to be refering to the second exile hear thunder , what I also notice is Gods ashorance that the nation of Isreal will not be forgotten by him.

Celtic.

Hi celtic,

They can 't be forgotten. God's word has said over and over that the nations will know that He is God because of what He does through Israel. Even Ezekiel 38 & 39 haven't even happened yet, so you can know for sure that God is still going to show His glory in Israel. Israel has never been very faithful, but God is always faithful. He didn't leave them, they left Him, but that is not the end of the story. :clap:

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Does todays Isreal have the backing of god and bible prophesy as a sign of the end??

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