The PCA

HamletsChoice said:

Kenith,

Did you read the PCA publication I posted? It is evidence.

Pastor's, who have spent their lives serving in the PCA, are having to leave the PCA because of what they believe are significant compromises with the Word of God. Entire denominations are being formed to contain the exodus. You and others might call it a schism but, lest we forget, that was the exact accusation against Martin Luther and John Calvin.

You can't brow-beat them or me out of what we have personally witnessed in the PCA. Instead I want to suggest we go through each of the issues I named one-by-one and let's examine all the evidence.

Let's start with the role of women in PCA churches, ok?

Click to expand...

Hello HamletsChoice,

Yes, I read that issue of Presbyterian and Refomred News five years ago, but I will reread it. The former pastor of the church I attend had resently come to our church from Westminster Presbytery and so it was important to me then. Also, I often attend the former Southern Baptist Church (Covenant Presbyterian Church in Sulphur, Louisiana) that had just joined Louisiana Presbytery (page 11), so I had great interest in that issue then.

The women preaching Issue was very important to me, but subsequent to that issue. It was found (if memory serves me correctly) that no woman preached but a women did speak in a non-worship setting.

With all that said, this issue in NO WAY VALIDATES your accusations.
Show me where the PCA has compromised on homosexuality.

Show me where we have compromised on Women in leadership positions.

Show me where we have compromised on accusation that you have made.

You have yet to validate ONE of your accusations.

Churches (a far larger percentage) split off from your denomination. Does that mean that y'all are apostate?

Of course not. Like I have mentioned before, I am on the conservative (sympathetic to Reconstruction ideas and a big fan of Rushdoony, Van Til, Bahnsen, Gentry, et al) wing of the PCA, and I have some differences with the PCA. But what you have written is blatantly false, you have not given one iota of evidence and after repeated request for an apology or proof you refuse to provide either. That is shameful

These are my last words on this thread.

Deo Vindice,
Kenith

Cajun Huguenot said:

These are my last words on this thread.

Deo Vindice,
Kenith

Click to expand...

Hold on a minute now, I just offered-up to go thru and provide you the evidence for each one of the issues one-by-one that I posted earlier that I believe the PCA is compromising over just as you requested. Now as soon as I begin you run away?

Well c'mon back and stick around awhile and lets go thru these issues, lets examine the evidence, and lets hear from others who are experiencing similar issues in the PCA, ok?

As I previously posted let's start with:

The PCA's toleration of women in authority in the church

In the PCA publication that I just posted and that you have read Henry Johnson, a former PCA preacher, states that the reason he withdrew from the PCA is as follows:

“Mr. Johnson said that the PCA has been compromised to a very large degree, afraid to speak out on the issues that are destroying our culture. He gave the doctrine of creation,
and the roles of men and women, as examples.”

“Many of you came to me, and said, ‘Wait, don’t go yet. We want to go with you. We think the PCA is in a terrible state.’ I believe the cards are on the table. One year, five, ten down the road, as seeds of apostasy grow and are watered, the crisis becomes your crisis and your congregation’s, then you decide if this is the kind of presbytery you want to come to.”

Now I don't think Pastor Johnson is joining in on what you think is my lie, do you? I think he is telling the truth. I think that in addition to the current exodus from the PCA that there are many who want to leave. Why??

Well for one reason, let's take a look at the women in authority issue.

The first story in the secular media about the women preaching controversy in the PCA appeared on the front page of the Greenville (S. C.) News.... The banner article, written by Cara Bonnett, was headlined,

"Presbyterians clash over whether women should preach."

"Sparking the intra-church debate was the appearance of a woman staffer at Cedar Springs Presbyterian Church, Knoxville, Tennessee, to fill the pulpit on two Sunday evenings in August 1998, and the subsequent defense of the practice by the Rev. John Wood, Senior Pastor of the congregation. Miss Bonnett quoted Jim Lockett, Clerk of Session at Cedar Springs Church, as saying: "Some denominations look at what's going on in our denomination and chuckle. . . . We are not trying to make other churches see and interpret scripture like we do. We're trying to do what the Lord's leading us to do, where we can be most effective in reaching our community."

Christian Renewal, a magazine with roots in the Dutch Reformed community, has also publicized the women's controversy within the PCA...

Source:http://www.presbyteriannews.org/volumes/v6/4/ga28-2.htm

Also in the PCA publication that I posted and that you have read pls note the controversy in the famous PCA Covenant Seminary over women preaching in the chapel service. This is not an isolated incident either. As Covenant trains women to graduate with M.Div. degrees of course they need to "practice" their training in the seminary chapel worship services, and they do!


In the December 2005 issue of byFaith there was a cover story that the editor descibed as:

"a topic, in coming months, that will become more difficult to ignore: the PCA’s stewardship of women’s gifts. We begin with “Women Theologians: A Goldmine for the Church” where Carolyn Custis James calls our attention to the growing number of PCA women who are graduating from Reformed seminaries. “The PCA,” James says, “has been remarkably successful in producing an army of solid female theologians." And this, the author believes, is one our great successes, but it also presents a great challenge: What should be our response to the influx of female seminary graduates as they arrive in our churches with their gifts, training, and theological wisdom?"

Tim Bayly, who served on the PCA General Assembly Ad Interim Study Committee on Women in the Military writes:

"Around twelve years ago, I tried to talk a friend of mine out of leaving Covenant Theological Seminary and transferring to Greenville. One of the principal reasons my friend gave for leaving was his frustration with women preaching in chapel. The ironic thing was that our friendship had developed through our work for reform in our prior denomination, the mainline Presbyterian Church (USA). And in the PC(USA), every congregation was (and is) required by church law to have equal representation of women and men on their elders board and each church's search committee was required to sign an EEO-type contract indicating that they would give equal consideration to women for their pastoral position. It's easy to imagine how women chapel preachers would drive such a man to distraction, being fully aware of the incrementalism by which these same battles had been won in his prior ecclesiastical home.

At the time, I encouraged this man to stay at Covenant. Today my counsel would be different, largely because of serving on the General Assembly Ad Interim Study Committee on Women in the Military. There my eyes were opened, particularly to the convictions of teaching elders. This issue is hanging fire for the PCA."

Source:

http://timbayly.worldmagblog.com/timbayly/archives/020986.html

Now for my own experiences:

The most dramatic encounter I had with this issue with a PCA church was with Perimeter Church in Duluth Georgia (http://perimeter.followers.net/).

By the way, this is the church that I mentioned previously that has ballet dancers, mimes, puppet shows, gorillas and rock concerts during it's worship services and steadfastly refuses to teach the six-day creation revelation in Genesis because as I was told by an elder in the church, "there are many elders in Perimeter who refuse to accept that account by faith." But now I'm digressing into the "other issues."

Anyway, during my first visit to the church 5 years ago Pastor Pope gave up his pulpit to a women to preach and teach during the service for 15 minutes or so. It was a real embarrassment. The last time I visited Perimeter, Christmas day 2005, as women were passing out the collection plates I noticed in our section the woman taking collection was wearing a Santa Claus cap and was joyfully in conversation with anyone and everyone in the congregation that she could distract, which she was very successful at accomplishing by the way. Again, it was just another real embarrassment.

This is only a small sample of the "evidence" that is out there that you requested Kenith and I can post much much more if you like. We can stay on this issue as long as you like or we can move on to the next issue, Creation, if you would rather.

Please just let me know.

HamletsChoice said:

Hold on a minute now, I just offered-up to go thru and provide you the evidence for each one of the issues one-by-one that I posted earlier that I believe the PCA is compromising over just as you requested. Now as soon as I begin you run away?

/cut/

The PCA's toleration of women in authority in the church

In the PCA publication that I just posted and that you have read Henry Johnson, a former PCA preacher, states that the reason he withdrew from the PCA is as follows:


/cut/

Well for one reason, let's take a look at the women in authority issue.

The first story in the secular media about the women preaching controversy in the PCA appeared on the front page of the Greenville (S. C.) News.... The banner article, written by Cara Bonnett, was headlined,

"Presbyterians clash over whether women should preach."

"Sparking the intra-church debate was the appearance of a woman staffer at Cedar Springs Presbyterian Church, Knoxville, Tennessee, to fill the pulpit on two Sunday evenings in August 1998, and the subsequent defense of the practice by the Rev. John Wood, Senior Pastor of the congregation. Miss Bonnett quoted Jim Lockett, Clerk of Session at Cedar Springs Church, as saying: "Some denominations look at what's going on in our denomination and chuckle. . . . We are not trying to make other churches see and interpret scripture like we do. We're trying to do what the Lord's leading us to do, where we can be most effective in reaching our community."

Click to expand...

Interesting.

I am a PCA Deacon. I have been PCA for 11 years, and being in the Army I have had the opportunity ro worship in 2 PCA churches in SC, 3 in San Antonio, 2 in Arizona, and have been around a couple of PCA chaplains. (now that we have that out of the way...)


At the PCA church in Sn Antonio we had a young Pastor just a few years out of Covenant, and during his absence we heard RUF minsiters from around Texas (TT, UT, A&M, as well as other PCAs around Texas) Each of them was a solid, Bible based preacher. I never heard anything from them that caused my heresy radar to go off.

Is the PCA the "most" Reformed denomination out there? Probably not. But in my expirience I have never seen or heard (until just now) of a women preaching at a PCA church. I have never seen a women serve as a Deacon or Elder or in any role that looked like one of those offices.

I know that there are some who are worried about recognizing women's spiritual gifts. But the article in ByFaith did not endorse putting women in a positon of authority, or putting women as Pastors. There are great books on the teaching of children by PCA women. Should we can those? The fact is there are Godly women in the church who sit on various committes and have much to offer without violating any Biblical standard on womens role. Presbyterian church government is a representative model. We must take women into account, just like men, when we make decisions. (always wrapped in prayer of course....)


I know there are many people who do not even know what the WCF is, but you will find that in most, if not all denominations in America, church members have no idea what the local church actually holds in it's creeds. It is a sign of a problem in our culture. People are lazy and choose a church because they like the preaching, or the programs. They don't do more than scratch the surface.


Oh, and FWIW, Cedar Springs is no longer PCA, they are EPC. I suspect the Perimeter issue will resolve itself, jst like Cedar Springs seems to have done.

Gamecock said:

Interesting....

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It really is interesting, here's hoping the PCA is able to stand strong in the Word of God and that all these troubles are crushed under Christ's feet!

Gamecock said:

Oh, and FWIW, Cedar Springs is no longer PCA, they are EPC. I suspect the Perimeter issue will resolve itself, just like Cedar Springs seems to have done.

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And FWIW we'd welcome them.

HamletsChoice said:

This is only a small sample of the "evidence" that is out there that you requested Kenith and I can post much much more if you like. We can stay on this issue as long as you like or we can move on to the next issue, Creation, if you would rather.

Please just let me know.

Click to expand...

Kenith?

HamletsChoice said:

In the December 2005 issue of byFaith there was a cover story that the editor descibed as:

"a topic, in coming months, that will become more difficult to ignore: the PCA’s stewardship of women’s gifts. We begin with “Women Theologians: A Goldmine for the Church” where Carolyn Custis James calls our attention to the growing number of PCA women who are graduating from Reformed seminaries. “The PCA,” James says, “has been remarkably successful in producing an army of solid female theologians." And this, the author believes, is one our great successes, but it also presents a great challenge: What should be our response to the influx of female seminary graduates as they arrive in our churches with their gifts, training, and theological wisdom?"

Click to expand...

Hi Hamlet's Choice,

First, let me just clarify that I am not trying to be argumentative. I have also been out of town for most of the past couple of weeks and I am coming into this discussion very late.

I attended a conference where Carolyn James was the main speaker last year. I have to tell you, I did not get any sort of message that women should challenge the roles of leadership. Not one bit. In fact, what I did get from Mrs. James is that it is important for women to diligently study Scripture so that they will have the full armor of God to fall back on when they are ministering to the people in their "circle of influence" (my phrase). Our theology is important as we raise our children, interact with the produce manager in the grocery store or our next door neighbor who just figured out that her husband is having a baby with his girlfriend. Does the PCA have some "hidden agenda"? I don't know. I haven't had any personal experience with that. I just wanted to clarify that I never felt that Mrs. James was pushing women to challenge the Scriptural roles of women.

Respectfully,
CC&E

I have never seen a women serve as a Deacon or Elder or in any role that looked like one of those offices.

Click to expand...

We are reformed Presbyterians from Virginia recently transplanted to southwestern Pennsylvania. Unfortunately the reformed Presbyterian congregations are at least an hour drive from us so we started a search for an acceptable substitute closer to home, which turned out to be a PCA congregation only 30 minutes down the road.

The one concern - the NPP hasen't as far as I know come up in this congregation - which I haven't had the opportunity to check into, yet, is that this PCA has women Deacons. I do not believe they are ordained and at least three of their husbands are ordained officers, thus it appears they are providing the helper functions of the Deaconesses in the early church.

It they are ordained that would open up another problem for us, knowing ALL of mans institutions are flawed and deciding which of the misunderstandings of Scripture to disregard.

calmcoolandelected said:

Hi Hamlet's Choice,

First, let me just clarify that I am not trying to be argumentative. I have also been out of town for most of the past couple of weeks and I am coming into this discussion very late.

I attended a conference where Carolyn James was the main speaker last year. I have to tell you, I did not get any sort of message that women should challenge the roles of leadership. Not one bit. In fact, what I did get from Mrs. James is that it is important for women to diligently study Scripture so that they will have the full armor of God to fall back on when they are ministering to the people in their "circle of influence" (my phrase). Our theology is important as we raise our children, interact with the produce manager in the grocery store or our next door neighbor who just figured out that her husband is having a baby with his girlfriend. Does the PCA have some "hidden agenda"? I don't know. I haven't had any personal experience with that. I just wanted to clarify that I never felt that Mrs. James was pushing women to challenge the Scriptural roles of women.

Respectfully,
CC&E

Click to expand...

Thx for your insight, I really appreciate your comments and your feedback and it's exactly the reason why I started this post. I want to understand other people's experiences in the PCA.

I did find some rather disturbing posts about Ms. James though that paint a little bit of a different picture of her. One post I found was by Tim Bayly a PCA minister who writes:

"February 16, 2006



Carolyn Custis James and evangelical feminists are in harmony...Carolyn Custis James' association with evangelical feminists opposed to the teaching of Scripture goes back several years, at least. She was one of the principal speakers at the Christians for Biblical Equality conference held in Orlando in 2003 http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/E-Journal/2003/2003MayWeb.shtml. Here is the list of speakers and representative topics:Anyone who doubts that Christians for Biblical Equality is an organization in principle opposed to the teaching of God's Word concerning sexuality has only to go here http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/about/biblical_equality.shtml and read their confession of faith to know who Carolyn Custis James is making common cause with.



It is impossible to support Christians for Biblical Equality's confession of faith and the Westminster Standards. It is impossible to be an adherent to CBE's false doctrine and to Scripture's true doctrine of sexuality. It is impossible for a woman or man to subscribe to the plenary verbal inspiration of Scripture and to the doctrines of Christians for Biblical Equality. To illustrate, here are a couple excerpts from CBE's confession of faith...The natural question, then, is twofold: first, why did Christians for Biblical Equality feature Carolyn Custis James at their 2003 conference and why do they continue to offer Carolyn Custis James' books and tapes if Carolyn Custis James faithfully opposes the feminist spirit of the age which wages war against the biblical doctrine of sexuality?

But more to the point, why does Carolyn Custis James work side by side with Christians for Biblical Equality when the purpose of their organization is to oppose God's precious Truth?

Either Christians for Biblical Equality, despite hours and days with Carolyn Custis James (including reading her books and listening to her messages) is naive about her true commitments, or they recognize a fellow traveler and continue to promote her brand of theological work because it is in essential agreement with their own.

Either Caroloyn Custis James, despite hours and days with Christians for Biblical Equality (including reading their literature and hanging out at their national conference) is naive concerning CBE's true commitments, or she recognizes them as fellow travelers and continues to make common cause with them because she subscribes to their doctrine.

Either way, the largest question we are left with is why the James' are given leadership at Reformed Theological Seminary, why their doctrine is given prominence in the PCA's byFaith magazine, and why Covenant College chose her to be a keynote speaker at their conference on the Church and Gender when each of these communities is committed theologically to opposing the very errors CBE and her adherents exist to promote?"

Source: http://nebti5.typepad.com/baylyblog/2006/02/carolyn_custis_.html#more


I would also like to add one more excerpt from Christian's for Biblical Equality's website that Tim should have included. Pls note the following:

"Community

1. In the church, spiritual gifts of women and men are to be recognized, developed and used in serving and teaching ministries at all levels of involvement: as small group leaders, counselors, facilitators, administrators, ushers, communion servers, and board members, and in pastoral care, teaching, preaching, and worship.

In so doing, the church will honor God as the source of spiritual gifts. The church will also fulfill God's mandate of stewardship without the appalling loss to God's kingdom that results when half of the church's members are excluded from positions of responsibility.

2. In the church, public recognition is to be given to both women and men who exercise ministries of service and leadership.

In so doing, the church will model the unity and harmony that should characterize the community of believers. In a world fractured by discrimination and segregation, the church will dissociate itself from worldly or pagan devices designed to make women feel inferior for being female. It will help prevent their departure from the church or their rejection of the Christian faith."

I do very much agree with everything in your post about the importance of the education of women for the purpose of raising a family, supporting her husband. and serving the church in all the biblical roles the Holy Spirit has revealed in Scripture. This is very important.

Speaking again from experience, my wife has a College degree in English and Accounting and is smarter than me. She has been invaluable to our family and a definite step-up for me.

on the topic of women teaching in the Church. i found:
MAY WOMEN TEACH SUNDAY SCHOOL?
http://www.thirdmill.org/newfiles/joh_frame/TH.Frame.women.teaching.html

really helpful.

HamletsChoice said:

Thx for your insight, I really appreciate your comments and your feedback and it's exactly the reason why I started this post. I want to understand other people's experiences in the PCA.

I did find some rather disturbing posts about Ms. James though that paint a little bit of a different picture of her. One post I found was by Tim Bayly a PCA minister who writes:

"February 16, 2006



Carolyn Custis James and evangelical feminists are in harmony...Carolyn Custis James' association with evangelical feminists opposed to the teaching of Scripture goes back several years, at least. She was one of the principal speakers at the Christians for Biblical Equality conference held in Orlando in 2003 http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/E-Journal/2003/2003MayWeb.shtml. Here is the list of speakers and representative topics:

Find out why the devil hates women in ministry, how to be a wild-hearted woman, and what the Bible says about God?s gender at the 2003 conference in Orlando. An all-star cast of speakers awaits you, such as David Hamilton, Kevin Giles, Linda Belleville, Lee Grady, Funmi Para-Mallam, Carolyn Custis James, and John Kohlenberger. Our conference will explore the theme, ?The Priesthood of All Believers: Serving Christ as a Global Community.​

Anyone who doubts that Christians for Biblical Equality is an organization in principle opposed to the teaching of God's Word concerning sexuality has only to go here http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/about/biblical_equality.shtml and read their confession of faith to know who Carolyn Custis James is making common cause with.



It is impossible to support Christians for Biblical Equality's confession of faith and the Westminster Standards. It is impossible to be an adherent to CBE's false doctrine and to Scripture's true doctrine of sexuality. It is impossible for a woman or man to subscribe to the plenary verbal inspiration of Scripture and to the doctrines of Christians for Biblical Equality. To illustrate, here are a couple excerpts from CBE's confession of faith...

2. The Bible teaches that woman and man were created for full and equal partnership. The word "helper" (ezer), used to designate woman in Genesis 2:18, refers to God in most instances of Old Testament usage (e.g. 1Sam 7:12; Ps 121:1-2). Consequently the word conveys no implication whatsoever of female subordination or inferiority. ​

4. The Bible teaches that man and woman were co-participants in the Fall: Adam was no less culpable than Eve (Gen 3:6; Rom 5:12-21; 1Cor 15:21-22).
5. The Bible teaches that the rulership of Adam over Eve resulted from the Fall and was therefore not a part of the original created order. Genesis 3:16 is a prediction of the effects of the Fall rather than a prescription of God's ideal order.

9. The Bible teaches that, in the New Testament economy, women as well as men exercise the prophetic, priestly and royal functions (Acts 2:17-18, 21:9; 1Cor 11:5; 1Peter 2:9-10; Rev 1:6, 5:10). Therefore, the few isolated texts that appear to restrict the full redemptive freedom of women must not be interpreted simplistically and in contradiction to the rest of Scripture, but their interpretation must take into account their relation to the broader teaching of Scripture and their total context (1Cor 11:2-16, 14:33-36; 1Tim 2:9-15).




​

The natural question, then, is twofold: first, why did Christians for Biblical Equality feature Carolyn Custis James at their 2003 conference and why do they continue to offer Carolyn Custis James' books and tapes if Carolyn Custis James faithfully opposes the feminist spirit of the age which wages war against the biblical doctrine of sexuality?

But more to the point, why does Carolyn Custis James work side by side with Christians for Biblical Equality when the purpose of their organization is to oppose God's precious Truth?

Either Christians for Biblical Equality, despite hours and days with Carolyn Custis James (including reading her books and listening to her messages) is naive about her true commitments, or they recognize a fellow traveler and continue to promote her brand of theological work because it is in essential agreement with their own.

Either Caroloyn Custis James, despite hours and days with Christians for Biblical Equality (including reading their literature and hanging out at their national conference) is naive concerning CBE's true commitments, or she recognizes them as fellow travelers and continues to make common cause with them because she subscribes to their doctrine.

Either way, the largest question we are left with is why the James' are given leadership at Reformed Theological Seminary, why their doctrine is given prominence in the PCA's byFaith magazine, and why Covenant College chose her to be a keynote speaker at their conference on the Church and Gender when each of these communities is committed theologically to opposing the very errors CBE and her adherents exist to promote?"

Source: http://nebti5.typepad.com/baylyblog/2006/02/carolyn_custis_.html#more


I would also like to add one more excerpt from Christian's for Biblical Equality's website that Tim should have included. Pls note the following:

"Community

1. In the church, spiritual gifts of women and men are to be recognized, developed and used in serving and teaching ministries at all levels of involvement: as small group leaders, counselors, facilitators, administrators, ushers, communion servers, and board members, and in pastoral care, teaching, preaching, and worship.

In so doing, the church will honor God as the source of spiritual gifts. The church will also fulfill God's mandate of stewardship without the appalling loss to God's kingdom that results when half of the church's members are excluded from positions of responsibility.

2. In the church, public recognition is to be given to both women and men who exercise ministries of service and leadership.

In so doing, the church will model the unity and harmony that should characterize the community of believers. In a world fractured by discrimination and segregation, the church will dissociate itself from worldly or pagan devices designed to make women feel inferior for being female. It will help prevent their departure from the church or their rejection of the Christian faith."

I do very much agree with everything in your post about the importance of the education of women for the purpose of raising a family, supporting her husband. and serving the church in all the biblical roles the Holy Spirit has revealed in Scripture. This is very important.

Speaking again from experience, my wife has a College degree in English and Accounting and is smarter than me. She has been invaluable to our family and a definite step-up for me.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the references, I will try to read up on this subject over the next couple of days.

CC&E

calmcoolandelected said:

Thanks for the references, I will try to read up on this subject over the next couple of days.

CC&E

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Pls let me know what you think, by the way are you a member of attending a PCA church? If so, would love your thoughts on any experiences you've had in any of the area's I posted.

Thx!

Foundthelight said:

Gee. This sounds exactly like my complaints about the PCUSA. When our church leaders abandon clear Scripture and our confessions they are acting not from the urgings of the Holy Spirit, but rather, from the urgings of some other spirit. The war continues.

I will pray for the PCA as I pray fro the PCUSA.

Perhaps we need a new Reformed denomination in America. A denomination that holds to the Bible first, the confessions second, and the teachings of its pastors third.

Click to expand...

I've been PCA for 4 years and have not encountered anything even remotely resembling the comaplints in the OP. Quite the contrary.

HamletsChoice said:

Pls let me know what you think, by the way are you a member of attending a PCA church? If so, would love your thoughts on any experiences you've had in any of the area's I posted.

Thx!

Click to expand...

My husband and I have been members of the PCA since 1985. We have never seen anything resembling women in leadership. We have been members of PCA churches in 6 states. We briefly attended a CRC church (my husband grew up in the CRC) while we were trying to get a PCA core group together and they were the ones having the "women in leadership issue" at that time (late 80s, early 90s).

I, personally, have had more issues with the PCA over other things such as church planting practices, church growth movement, etc.

CC&E

calmcoolandelected said:

My husband and I have been members of the PCA since 1985. We have never seen anything resembling women in leadership. We have been members of PCA churches in 6 states. We briefly attended a CRC church (my husband grew up in the CRC) while we were trying to get a PCA core group together and they were the ones having the "women in leadership issue" at that time (late 80s, early 90s).

I, personally, have had more issues with the PCA over other things such as church planting practices, church growth movement, etc.

CC&E

Click to expand...

Associated with those issues though, have been some questions surrounding new members who are not really Reformed and carry with them their arminian baggage, charismaniac baggage or other assorted baggage from other non-reformed churches, which is not always addressed very well in teaching and preaching in some PCA churches, as you know.

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

Associated with those issues though, have been some questions surrounding new members who are not really Reformed and carry with them their arminian baggage, charismaniac baggage or other assorted baggage from other non-reformed churches, which is not always addressed very well in teaching and preaching in some PCA churches, as you know.

Click to expand...

Amen to that, Brother A_W_C! I'm right there with ya on that one. There are other issues that have come up over the years where I "felt" like the PCA has not taken an appropriate stand.
CC&E

calmcoolandelected said:

Amen to that, Brother A_W_C! I'm right there with ya on that one. There are other issues that have come up over the years where I "felt" like the PCA has not taken an appropriate stand. I think much of my frustration has been with a lack of Scriptural leadership, which as you know, is being resolved. CC&E

Click to expand...

What issues in Scriptural leadership and how are they being resolved?

HamletsChoice said:

What issues in Scriptural leadership and how are they being resolved?

Click to expand...

HamletsChoice,

I have responded privately to your inquiry and have edited my post. Please forgive me, I think I had a lapse in judgement and it was inappropriate for me to post that in a public forum.

Again, I am sorry and will try to use better judgement in the future.

CC&E

calmcoolandelected said:

HamletsChoice,

I have responded privately to your inquiry and have edited my post. Please forgive me, I think I had a lapse in judgement and it was inappropriate for me to post that in a public forum.

Again, I am sorry and will try to use better judgement in the future.

CC&E

Click to expand...

Thx, I read your reply and agree with and respect your judgment on this.

persistence....

i can google messages i left on boards almost 10 years ago. i've changed my normal login name on the boards twice now because the volume of google responses made it hard to find my own past threads.

imho, it will be a problem in the future, if not already. i am sure if prospective employers googled my online volume they would wonder if i would misuse company internet connections. plus worry just a little about my sanity as well.

just a key word for the day.
persistence

the ability of things posted to the net to outlast their intended usefulness and acquire new unexpected and undesired purposes.....

*Grin*