Does anybody still think you have to spank to be a good Christian parent?

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JoannaJoy said:

I don't believe the real issue here is spanking - I think it's parenting.

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I wish I could rep you.... ! Great post!!

May I suggest Dare to Discipline by Dr Dobson

I believe the most crucial time to spank is when they are doing something dangerous like about to run into the street because you want them to associate the action with pain so they know what they are doin g will cause pain and when they are deliberately testing boundries......but if you are conscerned I would read the book abou t it

God Bless

I respect and like Dr. Dobson. I just finished The New Dare to Discipline, and I have Bringing Up Boys. This just happens to be the one area that I disagree with him on... I don't feel spanking is necessary to raising good kids. But I sure loved his speaking on discipline in education, and how your word has to mean something, and all the rest of it. He's really old fashioned, obviously, with his discussion of his mama wacking him with a girdle, and I don't feel that the badly behaved kids has so much to do with spanking as it does have to do with the breakdown of the family, lower morality, and lower priority on the importance of raising your kids. Heck, a lot of the badly behaved kids are spanked once their parents "reach the end" and it doesn't look real effective to me.

Welp, I reckon it's a real good thin my wife warned me to finish readin this thread before I responded. I've got a mighty thick hide an it takes a bit to git me bent, but I gotta say, I'm at a loss for your seeminly vicious attack on me, while I understand what you said an what not I don't see why you felt the need to blast me like you did. Nevertheless, this comment is why I responded the way I did... an I honestly do not know why you took such great offense to it, to my knowledge I didn't beat you over the head wit anythin er what not.

cruztacean said:

And they certainly overlook Matthew 18:6. Straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ: Don't you hurt a child, or you'd be better off at the bottom of the ocean.

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These were your words, an has been said you could twist that scripture into many thins. I responded as you also stated, by supplyin other scriptures, only I supplied some in favor of physical punishment an you other scriptures in relation to disicipline. I am not refutin you er anythin, though I caution you to becareful to say what you did the way you did. Because, you said in not so many words that anyone who "hurts" thier children would be better off at the bottom of the sea. Like another poster said, no child likes correction an all of em would say it hurt them in some form, wether a priviledge removed er a spankin er what have you.

I support spankin, by I do not support angry beatins, there is a difference that .... mmmm 'typical non-spankers' (if I can say that er generalize like that) they do not understand, they say folks that spank=abuse.... it's simply not the case, I'm not here in this thread to argue that, more to the point, you asked wether.... hmmm well, it's hard to say what you asked originally really, I mean it came all out more as statements of your position so's to speak, but no I don't believe christian=spankers anyways, an sure, folks have been screwin scripture up for years tryin to make it say what they want it to say, but there is truth to the sayin, spare the rod spoil the child. As I even said before, the rod does not specifically mean a physical stick that's used to beat someone wit. At the same time, there isn't anythin wrong wit usin a stick in enforcement. The key word here, an you even nailed it talkin bout cats, the rod=correction=disicpline. That doesn't mean you can either use a physical rod to block a door er use one to smack a backside.

On a personal side note.... it doesn't change the smell on my bum any if'n folks wanna ignore me er what have you, if you don't like sumthin I've said er a stance I have on it, it doesn't bother me to have someone argue the point wit me, I disagree wit the insinuation that I come lookin for a fight cause I wasn't, but you must understand that when there are those that would claim I was a child abuser an should "be thrown to the bottom of the sea", then you can betchya bottom dollar I'm goin to step up an says sumthin er nother. I did no more then you did, I posted scripture, you posted scripture, not really understandin the mishap in there.

Interesting thread, if you all don't control yourselves and quit yer bickering you're getting a sqatted. I'm bigger than you. Point made I hope.

I was spanked growing up. I have terrible memories of my Mom spanking me, it hurt too.
Just remind yourself that your child may remember you "lovingly" spanking them. I think it's confusing to be hit by a big person you love and trust and then hugged and loved on.

cruztacean said:

Why is it that the person who is bigger and stronger is the one who gets to hit, while the person who is smaller and weaker may not respond with any kind of self-defense?

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Signing in on this one for the first time.

I spanked mine when they were little, only because back then it was unheard of not to. As they got older I discovered natural consequences and found I didn't have to spank them so much.

I've done a lot of analyzing it since then. What does spanking really teach a child? If you're bigger and stronger, solve your problems by hitting. I don't think that's a good thing to teach them.

By the time I raised my step-daughter, about a 20-year gap between her and my sons, I had learned to do a lot of things besides spanking. I can't and won't say she was never spanked, but not nearly as much as my sons had been, and I think it's better if you can avoid doing it.

BigJimP said:

I've done a lot of analyzing it since then. What does spanking really teach a child? If you're bigger and stronger, solve your problems by hitting. I don't think that's a good thing to teach them.

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Not pickin on you er anythin, but I hear this argument alot actually. Le'me ask if I may, do you feel this was proper disicpline in what you said here? A big person hittin, an teachin a child to hit. Would you say that was the proper way to spank? Er do you think the messaged got through properly?

I don't, there is a way to spank that does not involve this type of thin happenin, ever spank ever given should be explained why an made sure they are loved afterwards. What we do is why she gits the spank, given the spank, hugged an said be good er whatever from now on, an then it's DEAD!, gone, there to never surface agin, it's been placed behind us an er an that's that.

I think folks could actually be lumped into several sub catergories in thins, between spankers vs. non-spankers. Cause you have some folks that say thier spankers an they do it out of anger, never wit any understandin er love but jes violence. Then you have others who do similar to what we do. Would the two be on equal footin? Er held in the same light? Sadly they are, but there's a world of difference between the two. My wife thinks I was abused as a kid, an in some instances I would agree, but ever 'spank' I got that was done properly I hold no ill feelins bout, but ever pipe er board used in anger makes me wanna spit fire an hate.

I dont think spanking or not spanking makes you a good Christian parent. Fact of the matter is, every parent is different and every child is different. Some kids respond to spanking, some do not (I have had both), some parents should NEVER spank, because of their background of abuse while others may not have been abused and can spank in the proper way. There are too many variables to consider.

I think people who say things like you are a good Christian parent if you spank or you are a good Christian parent if you do not spank are being narrow minded. What works for one will not necessarily work for all.

Well, we can analyze this one to death.
Why does the bigger (in this case, older and wiser) person do the disciplining? Because the bigger person happens to be the parent in charge of directing, teaching, correcting etc. Seems a little wierd to think that the child should have equal authority to spank a parent.
And, guess what, contrary to popular anti-spanking belief, there is living proof all around me, and all of you, everyday, that proper spanking of a child DOES NOT make them aggressive or teach them to hit. I bet if soemone did a study of all the great families that used spanking as a discipline apropriately, they would find a WHOLE different statistic than the ones stated in this thread.
This thread has been so interesting, up to this point, but start bringing in the "bigger person hitting the little person" argument, and it just gets really, really tired. That's when it's obvious that someone's personal issues with abuse are getting mixed in with the opinion on what someone else is doing with their child. Just because someone was abused as a child, or hit as a child, does not mean that children who are spanked by their parents in a healthy household, are feeling abused, or hit by their parents, or confused about whether their parents love them. I guarentee, if you asked my kids if their parents hit them, they would say "absolutely not". And I guarentee, they are not the least bit confused about our love for them, nor do they feel some sort of shock and confusion about being spanked, as if it's opposite of our loving actions. And this is not just true for my own family, it is true for many, many families I know and many I work with.
Now, I don't want someone jumping on my post, and tearing it apart, just because they have personal issues from their childhood and want to label every child getting spanked as being hit by their parents.
This thread isn't really about that, anyway. It's regarding whether spanking is NECESSARY to be a good Christian parent. The answer to that is: absolutely not. It's not necessary. But, it's not wrong either. Or bad, or "hitting" or abusing, or producing aggressive children, or any other negative generalization you want to put on "spanking". The proof is living and active and surrounding us.....
It's so sad these threads always have to take "that turn"........because, this could continue to be such an interesting, rich discussion.

cruztacean said:

CDM, you said it all when you said, "It is not necessary, but it is not wrong either." I completely agree. I guess the argument about a big person hitting a little person does come from my childhood, not from a healthy, appropriate spanking. For parents who spank I want to say that if your children are not afraid of you, are aware that you love them, and do not feel abused by you, wonderful. I can't say the same thing about my childhood experience, but then I wasn't *just* spanked. If I had merely been spanked, I would not call myself an abuse survivor.

Now, here's a question for parents who spank, and please, realize I'm not trying to judge you. This happened repeatedly in my childhood. Picture me somewhere around age nine, when my five-year-old sister does something wrong, and I turn her over my knee and spank her. Of course she runs directly to my mother, who is right to correct me because I wasn't the one who had the authority to spank my sister. What I don't understand is my mother then playing the "bully" card. "How much older are you than she is? You're a bully when you hit a smaller person." Then she'd turn right around and do the same thing. I never understood. I do now, of course, but I didn't then. What I'm asking, parents, is exactly HOW do you teach your children the distinction between your spanking them in discipline, versus their hitting a younger sibling? I couldn't get it through my head. Was I just being dense?

I do need to nitpick one little point, CDM. I asked why the bigger person does the HITTING, not the the DISCIPLINING.

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Well, in our case, our kids really understand that there is a distinction between loving discipline, spanking being a part of it, and just hitting someone because you're angry. Also, I have TOLD my kids, my older ones, that they are NOT ALLOWED to discipline the younger ones, that is mom and dad's job. It's really that simple. If I ask my daughter, who is nearing 13, to watch the 2 year old, she is allowed to give him time outs in his bed, but is not allowed to spank him, and, truthfully, it's not an issue, because she doesn't want that responsibility anyway, I think she instinctively knows that she's too young to have the wisdom of balance, etc. So, we teach our kids by our example, and by discussion. Kids just "know", when it's lived out in front of them. It is not the least bit surprising that in your household, it wasn't clear. There was no healthy balance and boundaries given........things are much different in a healthy household.
Regarding the "hitting vs. disciplining"......... spanking=discipline, it is not the same as hitting a child (there is a negative motive attached to hitting that should not be present when spanking, hitting is negative aggression)........therefore, being hit by someone bigger than you equals abusive behavior, whereas recieving a spanking from your parent in a healthy manner equals discipline. So, when the term "hitting" is used in a spanking discussion, it turns sour fast.
So, I wasn't trying to nitpick, this thread was just taking the turn that almost all of these spanking threads take, it wasn't just you that was saying this or implying this, on this thread, and it's been said before, mostly by people with abuse issues. And it is completely logical that someone who has been abused would have these issues, it's just tiring when people hold to this accusation and WON'T respect and believe the FACT that spanking does NOT equal abuse.
So, sorry if it seemed nitpicky, I wasn't picking on anyone at all. I think the OT of your thread here is a really great topic, and it would be nice if we could just respect eachother's positions on this, and assume the best of eachother instead of the worst, and discuss this issue without dumping our own issues onto eachother. I think you have personally done a really great job of being respectful to "spankers", and so have quite a few others on here, so I have enjoyed this thread.....

I don't like spanking my children, though I have done at times. I prefer when I find other ways to disciplin them.
It's easier now that they are older b/c I am able to use other methods, like withdrawing treats or things they like. Also I am more able now to put across how our actions carry responsibilties and how we have to face the consequences of what we do.
I admire parents that discipline their children without spanking them, but I do not condemn as bad parents those that do.
To me the way to be a good Christian parent is to teach children the values of a Christian life.
Does it matter how that's done - as long as you don't overstep the mark of abuse, obviously!

In my opinion, 9 is way to old to still be receiving spankings. I would never spank my daughter who is 10. I no longer even spank my youngest who is 5. However I do use the "you are older" thing when talking to my children and they don't understand why they are getting in more trouble for something they know they shouldn't do and should be directing their siblings in not doing. I am teaching my children, that they do not have the authority of a parent, but they do have a responsibility as a Christian to help others see that what they are doing is wrong and try to help them do it right rather then joining in and getting into trouble with them, now I am rambling though. Just wanted to explain why we use the "you are older" thing.

cruztacean said:

CDM, you said it all when you said, "It is not necessary, but it is not wrong either." I completely agree. I guess the argument about a big person hitting a little person does come from my childhood, not from a healthy, appropriate spanking. For parents who spank I want to say that if your children are not afraid of you, are aware that you love them, and do not feel abused by you, wonderful. I can't say the same thing about my childhood experience, but then I wasn't *just* spanked. If I had merely been spanked, I would not call myself an abuse survivor.

Now, here's a question for parents who spank, and please, realize I'm not trying to judge you. This happened repeatedly in my childhood. Picture me somewhere around age nine, when my five-year-old sister does something wrong, and I turn her over my knee and spank her. Of course she runs directly to my mother, who is right to correct me because I wasn't the one who had the authority to spank my sister. What I don't understand is my mother then playing the "bully" card. "How much older are you than she is? You're a bully when you hit a smaller person." Then she'd turn right around and do the same thing. I never understood. I do now, of course, but I didn't then. What I'm asking, parents, is exactly HOW do you teach your children the distinction between your spanking them in discipline, versus their hitting a younger sibling? I couldn't get it through my head. Was I just being dense?

I do need to nitpick one little point, CDM. I asked why the bigger person does the HITTING, not the the DISCIPLINING.

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cruztacean said:

How many of us have seen the movie "Coal Miner's Daughter"?

The only thing I question about the scene in the movie is that all of the brothers and sisters were in the room during the spanking. It seems to me it should have been in private. If I had been one of the parents, I would have sent them out of the room beforehand, not afterward. Some people might say, "Well, that's to teach the other kids that they'll get the same thing if they do wrong." Granted. But wouldn't it teach that lesson just to know it happened, without the other kids actually having to see it?

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That is one of my all time favorite movies! I think like you said it was a different time back then. Now a days soceity has put so much emphasis on a person's complex that we care more about hurting someone's feelings then teaching them right from wrong. That sounds harsh and it isn't meant to, but let's face it, back then we didn't have the amount of crime we do now, yes we had crime, all the same crimes we had back then, just no where near as much as now. The embarassment of getting a switchin at 13 in front of her brothers and sisters was enough to make her think twice before doing it again. Look at her today, she is proud of her roots, she loved her father dearly and it broke her heart when he died. DO you think she remembers those spankings? I am willing to bet she does. Does she remember feeling embarassed if front of her siblings, I bet she does. Do I think it effects her in a negative way? Nope not in the least. WHy? B/c she knows beyond the shadow of a doubt that her parents loved her. That is what is important. How you are disciplined stays with you, I don't believe you ever forget, but it isn't the discipline that makes you who you are, it is what happens when you aren't being diciplined that makes a difference.

I don't think a parenting decision makes someone a good Christian parent. I think following the Lord's will for your family makes someone a good parent. My husband and I have decided to spank Levi when he is older and defiant. BUT it is not for every little offense. It's for major acts of defiance or violence. Other offenses will be time outs, extra chores, lost priveleges and the sort.