Is there any biblical support for killing in The New Testament?
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On Self Defence:
Exodus 22 v 2 -3
"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed."
Compare that with:
Matthew 5v 17-
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
So in the middle of the night if you were to kill a burglar whom you feared threatened your own life or those of your family you would have no blood guilt on you. Of course in Britain you'd be arrested for murder but you would not be guilty of murder.
Exodus 22 v 2 -3
"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed."
Compare that with:
Matthew 5v 17-
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
So in the middle of the night if you were to kill a burglar whom you feared threatened your own life or those of your family you would have no blood guilt on you. Of course in Britain you'd be arrested for murder but you would not be guilty of murder.
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Anderlecht said:Is that your way of saying "OK, now let me change the subject"?
No, it's my way of telling you that your logic is flawed in this case.
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You keep making the same cockup that others make earlier in this thread. HE, i.e. JESUS came to fulfil the law IN SPIRIT. Check what Jesus had to say to the PHARISEES about "eating on the day of sabbath", for example. You and I are supposed to fulfil the law IN SPIRIT! Not act like a Pharisee that fools himself and others into legalism folly. Do you know how you do that, fulful tha law? >mindlight said:
"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law". -- Romans 13:8
That's how you do it... and NOT by Phariseeic interpretation of the law.
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DiscipleDave
Well-Known Member
Nowhere in the New Testament does it condone a person killing another person. Please do not use the Scriptures that teach us that our Goverment are given to us by God, and that we are to obey such Government, these do not in any way shape or form, teach a person can kill another.
To answer your question, if having a hand gun is wrong or not. It is not wrong to have a hand gun, nor to have a Machine Gun, or a cannon or rifle, or any other weapon in your belongings as long as it is legal to have. Nowhere in the Words of God does it say or teach not to have a gun. Now the Words of God are clear Thou shalt not kill, that we should love our enemies, be kind to those who hate us and dispitfully use us. but never does it say to kill them, therefore if you have a loaded gun and you kill another you have committed sin, for you did that which is contrary to the Words of God. Therefore my suggestion to you is this, if you absolutely feel like you need to trust in a piece of steal to protect you, then keep a gun, but don't have a bullet one in your house, the mere gun alone will deter enemies away. without ever a chance of killing another.
Scripturally speaking are we not to forgive others or we will not be forgiven
[BIBLE]Matthew 6:15[/BIBLE]
Someone breaks into your house to rob you, what you shoot him ? or do you the Christian thing, and offer the thief the coat also ? SO WHAT, it is only STUFF, you can't take it with you, and if your going to kill another person over your STUFF, then your not a Christian to begin with, and it does matter what you do, now does it.
Lets look at it, in another way, As A Christian are we not suppose to be trying to bring people to the Lord, i find it hard to believe that one is able to come to the Lord, after you just shot them dead. Know you not that if you kill another person, you, YOU, YOU have taken every chance that person had to accept the Lord and come to Christ. that person will never have a chance of Salvation because YOU killed them, then you somehow justify your action by saying, he was going to steal my STUFF. YOU have bound a person to go to Hell, because they are dead and were not Christian. Hello, isn't that the opposite of what Christians are suppose to do?
It would be better for you, in the eyes of God, if a burglar broke in your house, and you went up to them trying to persuade them to turn to Christ, and he then shoots you dead. you are going to Heaven, who knows two years later he also comes to the Lord and he goes to Heaven also, and he comes up to you and says " sorry about shooting brother " and you reply " don't worry about it, wanna go pillow surfing ? "
No this generation would just shoot the thief, becaues they might lose a little bit of there STUFF, or ooooooohhhhhh all of it. wake up people. Christians are to lay down their lives for others. Christians are to try to convert the unsaved to become Christians, not kill them so then they have no chance at all, think about it, you kill them, they will never be able to repent and YOU have sentenced them to Hell for all eternity, and for what, your STUFF !!!!
Oh and here is another excuse many people use, if my Government tells me to kill ( which is contrary to the Words of God ) then it is OK for me to point my weapon at another human that is unsaved, and pull the trigger, killing that person dooming him forever to the pits of Hell, and think it's alright because someone in the Government said " do it ".
i will tell you the Truth we ar to obey our Government, this is Scriptural, but we are not to obey our Government if said Government is asking us to do something which is contrary to the Words of God.
Does not the Government say it is OK to buy and smoke cigarrettes, so then it is OK to buy and smoke them. Does the Government say it is OK to Gamble, so i guess because they say it is OK, it is OK, regardless what the Bible says about it. If then the Government says take prayer out of school, well it must be a good thing, because God put them in control, or if the Government says no more 10 commandments anywhere in public, well since the Government is put in charge by God we should agree with them, Woe to this wicked and perverse generation that is before the eyes of Christ.
If the Governement is asking you to do something which is contrary to the Words of God, you, as a Christian, are to uphold the Words of God, and not the Government.
Remember it will be the our Government that will agree to ONE World Government, will agree to having ONE world leader, which according to Scriptures will be the anti-christ. Hello, it is the Governments that allow this, and promote this to happen.
Yes we are to obey our government, because God set them in place to control the evil doers, and execute justice upon those who do evil, this is all true, and we are to obey them, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE WORDS OF GOD, then we are NOT to obey them. know you not it will be the Goverenment that will make it manditory for everyone to recieve a mark in their right hands.
Just remember, when you pull the trigger and kill another person, you and only you, have taken every opportunity they ever had away from them, to accept Christ and repent of their ways, and become Saved, because you killed them they are doomed to Hell for all eternity.
Personally, i wouldn't not be able to sleep at night, if it was my fault another, now has no chance to accept Christ. i would rather die myself, then to have to live with that.
Christians are to bringing people to Christ, not sentencing them to Hell for all eternity.
Please my chapter on War, if you have the time
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/discipledave/book/War.html
A man breaks into my house, determined to kill everyone in it, guess what my family and i are going to be with Christ in a few minutes, Glory be to God. not another day in this satan filled world. hoooray. Christ come and get me.
Stay here and protect your STUFF, i will choose to go to Heaven any day of the week.
To answer your question, if having a hand gun is wrong or not. It is not wrong to have a hand gun, nor to have a Machine Gun, or a cannon or rifle, or any other weapon in your belongings as long as it is legal to have. Nowhere in the Words of God does it say or teach not to have a gun. Now the Words of God are clear Thou shalt not kill, that we should love our enemies, be kind to those who hate us and dispitfully use us. but never does it say to kill them, therefore if you have a loaded gun and you kill another you have committed sin, for you did that which is contrary to the Words of God. Therefore my suggestion to you is this, if you absolutely feel like you need to trust in a piece of steal to protect you, then keep a gun, but don't have a bullet one in your house, the mere gun alone will deter enemies away. without ever a chance of killing another.
Scripturally speaking are we not to forgive others or we will not be forgiven
[BIBLE]Matthew 6:15[/BIBLE]
Someone breaks into your house to rob you, what you shoot him ? or do you the Christian thing, and offer the thief the coat also ? SO WHAT, it is only STUFF, you can't take it with you, and if your going to kill another person over your STUFF, then your not a Christian to begin with, and it does matter what you do, now does it.
Lets look at it, in another way, As A Christian are we not suppose to be trying to bring people to the Lord, i find it hard to believe that one is able to come to the Lord, after you just shot them dead. Know you not that if you kill another person, you, YOU, YOU have taken every chance that person had to accept the Lord and come to Christ. that person will never have a chance of Salvation because YOU killed them, then you somehow justify your action by saying, he was going to steal my STUFF. YOU have bound a person to go to Hell, because they are dead and were not Christian. Hello, isn't that the opposite of what Christians are suppose to do?
It would be better for you, in the eyes of God, if a burglar broke in your house, and you went up to them trying to persuade them to turn to Christ, and he then shoots you dead. you are going to Heaven, who knows two years later he also comes to the Lord and he goes to Heaven also, and he comes up to you and says " sorry about shooting brother " and you reply " don't worry about it, wanna go pillow surfing ? "
No this generation would just shoot the thief, becaues they might lose a little bit of there STUFF, or ooooooohhhhhh all of it. wake up people. Christians are to lay down their lives for others. Christians are to try to convert the unsaved to become Christians, not kill them so then they have no chance at all, think about it, you kill them, they will never be able to repent and YOU have sentenced them to Hell for all eternity, and for what, your STUFF !!!!
Oh and here is another excuse many people use, if my Government tells me to kill ( which is contrary to the Words of God ) then it is OK for me to point my weapon at another human that is unsaved, and pull the trigger, killing that person dooming him forever to the pits of Hell, and think it's alright because someone in the Government said " do it ".
i will tell you the Truth we ar to obey our Government, this is Scriptural, but we are not to obey our Government if said Government is asking us to do something which is contrary to the Words of God.
Does not the Government say it is OK to buy and smoke cigarrettes, so then it is OK to buy and smoke them. Does the Government say it is OK to Gamble, so i guess because they say it is OK, it is OK, regardless what the Bible says about it. If then the Government says take prayer out of school, well it must be a good thing, because God put them in control, or if the Government says no more 10 commandments anywhere in public, well since the Government is put in charge by God we should agree with them, Woe to this wicked and perverse generation that is before the eyes of Christ.
If the Governement is asking you to do something which is contrary to the Words of God, you, as a Christian, are to uphold the Words of God, and not the Government.
Remember it will be the our Government that will agree to ONE World Government, will agree to having ONE world leader, which according to Scriptures will be the anti-christ. Hello, it is the Governments that allow this, and promote this to happen.
Yes we are to obey our government, because God set them in place to control the evil doers, and execute justice upon those who do evil, this is all true, and we are to obey them, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE WORDS OF GOD, then we are NOT to obey them. know you not it will be the Goverenment that will make it manditory for everyone to recieve a mark in their right hands.
Just remember, when you pull the trigger and kill another person, you and only you, have taken every opportunity they ever had away from them, to accept Christ and repent of their ways, and become Saved, because you killed them they are doomed to Hell for all eternity.
Personally, i wouldn't not be able to sleep at night, if it was my fault another, now has no chance to accept Christ. i would rather die myself, then to have to live with that.
Christians are to bringing people to Christ, not sentencing them to Hell for all eternity.
Please my chapter on War, if you have the time
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/discipledave/book/War.html
A man breaks into my house, determined to kill everyone in it, guess what my family and i are going to be with Christ in a few minutes, Glory be to God. not another day in this satan filled world. hoooray. Christ come and get me.
Stay here and protect your STUFF, i will choose to go to Heaven any day of the week.
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DiscipleDave said:
But there is a place for self-defence, and the protection of ones family. And a man has a right to use whatever means are necessary to protect his family.
And if you can't see this then that is a shame.
In fact, if it weren't for self-defence you wouldn't even be enjoying your liberty right now!
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woobadooba said:
Being a true Christian is never easy!
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7-14
Jesus said, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Matthew 5:38
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Matthew 5:46
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:27
Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight. . . John 18:36
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Matthew 5:9
1 Peter 3:8-9
8 Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Matthew 7:21
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Pastorjim12 said:
So what are you trying to imply here, that I am not a true Christian because I believe that a man is a coward and traiter to his family if he just sits back and does nothing while some criminal is having his way with them?
Is that what you think?
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C
Christina M
Guest
Disciple Dave said:
I am sure glad you are not my husband,Dave!
My husband would do ALL in his power to protect us before allowing an evil person trying to kill us to live. He loves God with all his heart, he is a man's man, a retired Marine, and is a certified expert marksman.....I thank God for him (and his .38 and his .45
) God said a man who does not take care of his family is worse than an infidel.
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Is this your way of understanding Pauls message: "To live is Christ, to die is gain"? Then that's fine as long as you don't go overboard and actually desire or wish to be killed or harmed. There is nothing wrong with self-defense but that's no excuse to sin!DiscipleDave said:
Is killing the only option to get out of trouble? How about depending on the power of the blood of Jesus Christ? Is it beyond the power of the Holy Spirit to get us out of trouble? Is depending on God's power inadequate during burglary? IS THE CHRISTIAN GOD YOU CLAIM TO BELIEVE-IN NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH??? Cause if that is so, then you are believing in the wrong god! Your god is not the God of the Bible! Your god is the Marine Corps!ChristinaM said:
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linssue55
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Here is plenty of support for protecting your family and loved ones......the country we live in also claims we have the same right...........
Killing
The Old Testament. The Old Testament uses many terms to refer to the act of killing, some of which can be used interchangeably (see 2 Sam 14:7, ; where three terms for killing are used ). The most common of these is harag, a neutral term found over 160 times. It is used to convey the concept of the violent death of persons at the hands of other persons (individuals, Israelites, or foreigners), whether justified or unjustified; it also includes the idea of murder or judicial execution (the offender was to be killed in agreement with the command in Gen 9:6).
Killing Enemies in Battle. The Hebrew term harag can mean killing enemies in battle. In a holy war, the Israelites would undertake the ritual mass destruction of enemies in obedience to the command of God (Num 31:7, 17; Deut 2:34; 3:6; 7:22-26; 13:16; 20:10-14; Joshua 8:26-28; 1 Sam 15:3). Even Pharaoh participated in the mass destruction of enemies (1 Kings 9:16).
Killing Opponents. The killing of political opponents occurred during periods of revolution, in disputes with prophets, or in the battle for succession to the throne. Gideon destroyed Peniel and its people when they refused his aid (Judges 8:17); Saul thought about killing Samuel (1 Sam 16:2), and was successful in having the priests of Nob slain (1 Sam 22:17); Jezebel killed the prophets of Yahweh (1 Kings 18:13; cf. 1 Kings 19:10); Zechariah was stoned during the reign of Joash (2 Chron 24:21); Abimelech killed his seventy brothers (Judges 9:5); Athaliah killed her family and was herself killed (2 Kings 11:16; 2 Chron 23:15); and Jehu destroyed the line of Ahab (2 Chron 22:8). The festival of Purim was associated with the slaying of political enemies (Esther 3:13; 7:4; 8:11; 9:2). Pharaoh intended to kill the Hebrew sons (Heb. causitive of mut, Exod 1:16; also see 1 Sam 17:50; 2 Sam 3:30). Harag is also used for the killing of personal enemies and rivals (by Lamech [Gen 4:23-24] for the intended killing of Joseph 37:20; mut was used in Gen 37:18; also see 1 Sam 19:1; 1 Kings 11:40] Jacob versus Esau [Gen 27:41] and Cain versus Abel [Gen 4:1-6]).
Killing as a Crime. There were at least four types of criminal homicide: murder, accidental homicide, the goring ox, and justifiable homicide. Murder was a premeditated act (Exod 21:13; Num 35:20-22) punishable by death (Num 35:31-33; Deut 19:13). Moses' killing of an Egyptian was considered a crime by Pharaoh (Exod 2:14-15), as was Joab's blood vengeance against Abner (2 Sam 3:30; cf. 1 Kings 2:5) and David's plotting the death of Uriah (2 Sam 12:9,14). Judicial murder was also condemned (Exod 23:7; Psalm 10:8; 94:5-6).
A distinction was made between homicide and premeditated murder (Exod 21:13-14), although the blood avenger was required to act against both, primarily as a safeguard against the killing of relatives. The one who committed accidental manslaughter was able to receive asylum (Exod 21:13; Num 35:9-30; [Heb. naka, a mortal blow] Deut 19:1-10). Accidental manslaughter could result from a sudden shove or unintentional throwing of an object (Num 35:22), the dropping of a stone or random missile (Num 35:22-23), a fall from a roof with no rail (Deut 22:8), or assault by a killer who was not lying in wait (Exod 21:12-13). An ox who killed a man was stoned (Exod 21:28-32). A property owner was justified in killing a thief in the act of stealing (Exod 22:2; in daylight hours ).
Killing as Punishment for a Crime. Israel's death penalty showed moral sensitivity and placed a high value on human life. Punishment was often regarded as God's vengeance on the crime. Capital punishment was employed for the following criminal cases: intentional homicide (Exod 21:12; Lev 24:17; Num 35:16-21), kidnapping (Exod 21:16; Deut 24:7), prostitution by the priest's daughter (Lev 21:9), persistent disobedience against parents (Lev 20:9; Deut 27:16), apostasy from the Lord (Num 25:5; Deut 13:10), killing the king (2 Sam 4:10-12), fratricide (Gen 4:14; Exod 21:14; Judges 9:56; 2 Sam 14:7), child sacrifice (Lev 20:4; Heb. mut ), and false prophecy (Deut 13:1-5). It was also enforced for sexual abuses such as adultery (Lev 20:10; Deut 22:22), incest (Lev 20:11-17), sodomy (Lev 20:13), and inappropriate behavior with animals (Exod 22:19; Lev 20:15-16), and for cultic abuses including idolatry (Lev 20:1-5; Num 25:1-5; Deut 13:6-18; 17:2-7), blasphemy (Lev 24:15-16), profanation of the Sabbath (Exod 31:14-15; Num 15:32-36), and sorcery (Exod 22:17; Lev 20:27). One aspect in criminal law was the idea of corporate personality; Achan's death penalty was extended to his entire family (Josh. 7).
Killing as Sacrifice. The term shahatwas used for the slaughter of animals, either for sacrifice or for food (Exod 29:11, 16, 20; Lev 1:5), for child sacrifices (Ezek 16:21; 23:39), and for Jehu's mass killing (2 Kings 10:7,14). Other terms (e.g., zabah) were used for butchering (Lev 17:3-9).
Yahweh as the Subject. Yahweh punished misdeeds, was a military hero (Yahweh of hosts), and killed personal opponents (Num 22:21-35). He killed Pharaoh's firstborn (Exod 4:23; 13:15), the Philistines (Isa 14:28-32), Babylonians (Isa 14:4-21), and even his own people (Jer 5:14; 23:29; Hosea 6:5; Amos 9:1-4). Yahweh was also described as killing his enemies in prophetic visions of judgment (Ezek 23:9-10; Amos 4:10; 9:1).
The New Testament The New Testament also uses a variety of words for the concept of killing. The most common is apokteino [ajpokteivnw], a term used nearly seventy-five times. The writers of the Septuagint employed this word on over 150 occasions (normally for the Hebrew term harag). Its generic meaning appeared to signify the ending of someone else's life in a violent way, and could signify murder, execution, or killing. It was found most often in the Gospels and Revelation, while rarely in the Pauline Epistles. The objects of the term were most often those who speak for God (Matt 14:5; 23:30; Mark 6:19; John 16:2; for the killing of God's messengers ) and were condemned to death. The disciples were threatened with death (Acts 21:31; 23:12-14), as were martyrs (Rev 6:11; 11:7). It could also be used figuratively (2 Col 3:6; Eph 2:16; sin forces one into a conflict that ends in death ), in parables (Matt 23:37; Mark 12:5-12), or in prophetic narratives (with reference to the disciples in Matthew's apocolypse [24:9]). It was used concerning Christ in the passion predictions (Mark 8:31; 9:31; 10:34). Killing was used to execute God's judgment (Rev 6:8; 9:15-18; 19:21); hostility was behind the killing of Christ (Eph 2:15-16). Other terms for killing are also used, but on a less frequent basis. Luke often uses a term (anaireo [ajnairevw]) that means to do away with, usually in a violent way (Luke 22:2; Acts 9:24; 16:27; 23:15; 26:10). The New Testament term for committing murder (phoneuo [foneuvw]) is used by Matthew to signify the sixth commandment (5:21; 19:18), and by Paul in summarizing the law (Rom 13:9; see James 2:11). Other terms include "handle violently" (in the extended sense to mean "kill": diacheirizo the killing of Jesus on the cross Acts 5:30; 26:21), "deliver up to death" (thanatoo Rom 7:4; 8:36; 2 Col 6:9; also, "put to death" Matt 27:1; Mark 13:12; 14:55; 1 Peter 3:18), "to slaughter" (sphazo Rom 5:6, 8, 12; 6:9; 1 John 3:12). The New Testament term for immolation (thuo [quvw]) has a ritual character (Luke 15:23,27,30). It could be used of oxen (Matt 22:4), flocks (John 10:10), by Peter in Acts (10:13; 11:7), for the Passover (Luke 22:7), of Christ as the Passover lamb (1 Co 5:7), and by Paul in comparing pagan and Hebrew sacrifice (1 Col 8:4-13; 10:25-30).
Killing
The Old Testament. The Old Testament uses many terms to refer to the act of killing, some of which can be used interchangeably (see 2 Sam 14:7, ; where three terms for killing are used ). The most common of these is harag, a neutral term found over 160 times. It is used to convey the concept of the violent death of persons at the hands of other persons (individuals, Israelites, or foreigners), whether justified or unjustified; it also includes the idea of murder or judicial execution (the offender was to be killed in agreement with the command in Gen 9:6).
Killing Enemies in Battle. The Hebrew term harag can mean killing enemies in battle. In a holy war, the Israelites would undertake the ritual mass destruction of enemies in obedience to the command of God (Num 31:7, 17; Deut 2:34; 3:6; 7:22-26; 13:16; 20:10-14; Joshua 8:26-28; 1 Sam 15:3). Even Pharaoh participated in the mass destruction of enemies (1 Kings 9:16).
Killing Opponents. The killing of political opponents occurred during periods of revolution, in disputes with prophets, or in the battle for succession to the throne. Gideon destroyed Peniel and its people when they refused his aid (Judges 8:17); Saul thought about killing Samuel (1 Sam 16:2), and was successful in having the priests of Nob slain (1 Sam 22:17); Jezebel killed the prophets of Yahweh (1 Kings 18:13; cf. 1 Kings 19:10); Zechariah was stoned during the reign of Joash (2 Chron 24:21); Abimelech killed his seventy brothers (Judges 9:5); Athaliah killed her family and was herself killed (2 Kings 11:16; 2 Chron 23:15); and Jehu destroyed the line of Ahab (2 Chron 22:8). The festival of Purim was associated with the slaying of political enemies (Esther 3:13; 7:4; 8:11; 9:2). Pharaoh intended to kill the Hebrew sons (Heb. causitive of mut, Exod 1:16; also see 1 Sam 17:50; 2 Sam 3:30). Harag is also used for the killing of personal enemies and rivals (by Lamech [Gen 4:23-24] for the intended killing of Joseph 37:20; mut was used in Gen 37:18; also see 1 Sam 19:1; 1 Kings 11:40] Jacob versus Esau [Gen 27:41] and Cain versus Abel [Gen 4:1-6]).
Killing as a Crime. There were at least four types of criminal homicide: murder, accidental homicide, the goring ox, and justifiable homicide. Murder was a premeditated act (Exod 21:13; Num 35:20-22) punishable by death (Num 35:31-33; Deut 19:13). Moses' killing of an Egyptian was considered a crime by Pharaoh (Exod 2:14-15), as was Joab's blood vengeance against Abner (2 Sam 3:30; cf. 1 Kings 2:5) and David's plotting the death of Uriah (2 Sam 12:9,14). Judicial murder was also condemned (Exod 23:7; Psalm 10:8; 94:5-6).
A distinction was made between homicide and premeditated murder (Exod 21:13-14), although the blood avenger was required to act against both, primarily as a safeguard against the killing of relatives. The one who committed accidental manslaughter was able to receive asylum (Exod 21:13; Num 35:9-30; [Heb. naka, a mortal blow] Deut 19:1-10). Accidental manslaughter could result from a sudden shove or unintentional throwing of an object (Num 35:22), the dropping of a stone or random missile (Num 35:22-23), a fall from a roof with no rail (Deut 22:8), or assault by a killer who was not lying in wait (Exod 21:12-13). An ox who killed a man was stoned (Exod 21:28-32). A property owner was justified in killing a thief in the act of stealing (Exod 22:2; in daylight hours ).
Killing as Punishment for a Crime. Israel's death penalty showed moral sensitivity and placed a high value on human life. Punishment was often regarded as God's vengeance on the crime. Capital punishment was employed for the following criminal cases: intentional homicide (Exod 21:12; Lev 24:17; Num 35:16-21), kidnapping (Exod 21:16; Deut 24:7), prostitution by the priest's daughter (Lev 21:9), persistent disobedience against parents (Lev 20:9; Deut 27:16), apostasy from the Lord (Num 25:5; Deut 13:10), killing the king (2 Sam 4:10-12), fratricide (Gen 4:14; Exod 21:14; Judges 9:56; 2 Sam 14:7), child sacrifice (Lev 20:4; Heb. mut ), and false prophecy (Deut 13:1-5). It was also enforced for sexual abuses such as adultery (Lev 20:10; Deut 22:22), incest (Lev 20:11-17), sodomy (Lev 20:13), and inappropriate behavior with animals (Exod 22:19; Lev 20:15-16), and for cultic abuses including idolatry (Lev 20:1-5; Num 25:1-5; Deut 13:6-18; 17:2-7), blasphemy (Lev 24:15-16), profanation of the Sabbath (Exod 31:14-15; Num 15:32-36), and sorcery (Exod 22:17; Lev 20:27). One aspect in criminal law was the idea of corporate personality; Achan's death penalty was extended to his entire family (Josh. 7).
Killing as Sacrifice. The term shahatwas used for the slaughter of animals, either for sacrifice or for food (Exod 29:11, 16, 20; Lev 1:5), for child sacrifices (Ezek 16:21; 23:39), and for Jehu's mass killing (2 Kings 10:7,14). Other terms (e.g., zabah) were used for butchering (Lev 17:3-9).
Yahweh as the Subject. Yahweh punished misdeeds, was a military hero (Yahweh of hosts), and killed personal opponents (Num 22:21-35). He killed Pharaoh's firstborn (Exod 4:23; 13:15), the Philistines (Isa 14:28-32), Babylonians (Isa 14:4-21), and even his own people (Jer 5:14; 23:29; Hosea 6:5; Amos 9:1-4). Yahweh was also described as killing his enemies in prophetic visions of judgment (Ezek 23:9-10; Amos 4:10; 9:1).
The New Testament The New Testament also uses a variety of words for the concept of killing. The most common is apokteino [ajpokteivnw], a term used nearly seventy-five times. The writers of the Septuagint employed this word on over 150 occasions (normally for the Hebrew term harag). Its generic meaning appeared to signify the ending of someone else's life in a violent way, and could signify murder, execution, or killing. It was found most often in the Gospels and Revelation, while rarely in the Pauline Epistles. The objects of the term were most often those who speak for God (Matt 14:5; 23:30; Mark 6:19; John 16:2; for the killing of God's messengers ) and were condemned to death. The disciples were threatened with death (Acts 21:31; 23:12-14), as were martyrs (Rev 6:11; 11:7). It could also be used figuratively (2 Col 3:6; Eph 2:16; sin forces one into a conflict that ends in death ), in parables (Matt 23:37; Mark 12:5-12), or in prophetic narratives (with reference to the disciples in Matthew's apocolypse [24:9]). It was used concerning Christ in the passion predictions (Mark 8:31; 9:31; 10:34). Killing was used to execute God's judgment (Rev 6:8; 9:15-18; 19:21); hostility was behind the killing of Christ (Eph 2:15-16). Other terms for killing are also used, but on a less frequent basis. Luke often uses a term (anaireo [ajnairevw]) that means to do away with, usually in a violent way (Luke 22:2; Acts 9:24; 16:27; 23:15; 26:10). The New Testament term for committing murder (phoneuo [foneuvw]) is used by Matthew to signify the sixth commandment (5:21; 19:18), and by Paul in summarizing the law (Rom 13:9; see James 2:11). Other terms include "handle violently" (in the extended sense to mean "kill": diacheirizo the killing of Jesus on the cross Acts 5:30; 26:21), "deliver up to death" (thanatoo Rom 7:4; 8:36; 2 Col 6:9; also, "put to death" Matt 27:1; Mark 13:12; 14:55; 1 Peter 3:18), "to slaughter" (sphazo Rom 5:6, 8, 12; 6:9; 1 John 3:12). The New Testament term for immolation (thuo [quvw]) has a ritual character (Luke 15:23,27,30). It could be used of oxen (Matt 22:4), flocks (John 10:10), by Peter in Acts (10:13; 11:7), for the Passover (Luke 22:7), of Christ as the Passover lamb (1 Co 5:7), and by Paul in comparing pagan and Hebrew sacrifice (1 Col 8:4-13; 10:25-30).
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Thanks linssue55 for letting us know that the word "killing" exists in the Bible. However we were not playing scrabble.
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But I never said what you think I said: just plain "desire to die". I did say however that:DiscipleDave said:
So DiscipleDave, Desire to be killed and/or harmed (somethng that requires an act of a human being) is not quite the same thing as "desire to die", although it is one sinful way to achieve that objective.
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A lot of points have been made here, so I'll just say this. If being willing to defend myself an my family by any means necessary, up to and including killing, means that God is going to be mad at me...well, I'm willing to take that chance. If I am to spend an eternity in hell, I can think of no better reason to go there than by trying to keep my family safe. In other words, I would rather forfeit my eternal soul than to willingly allow harm to come to my wife or daughter.
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At-least you're honest... unlike the hypocrites who delude themselves that they can have it both ways: love a brother and kill that same brother. Instead of relying on what it says we should rely on (Zechariah 4:6)dunkel said:
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Anderlecht said:
Wait a minute! Who is a Christian's brother?
You need to be careful here buddy!
The Bible makes a distinction of who our true brothers and sisters are.
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Distinction between 'true' brothers and who? Unbelievers?... 'them'?... those 'people'?... tax collecers?... enemies? => still not supposed to hate any of them but instead show them love, God's love, so that they don't perish. Show them the way and the truth and the life, share the good news with them, be the salt.woobadooba said:
Do that first and then let's see what happenes, let's see how the "not-so-true brother" is going to react to that...
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