The Ever Popular...Death Penalty!

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Forgive me if this is a little choppy...I’m trying to put things in a nutshell that can barely fit in station wagon! Unpopular as it may be, at least give it some thought.

WHY I AM AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY:
Let me start by saying that I work in a branch of Federal Law Enforcement. I have been face to face with Timothy McVeigh, rapists, serial killers, murderers of entire families and just about every other violent crime you can think of. Aside from the families of their victims, I have great reason to support the death penalty. I’ve known them. I’ve been threatened by them. I’ve fought with them. I’ve spoken at length with them, and I know what the rare, but truly evil are capable of.
I consider myself also to be capable of debating the death penalty issue Biblically from BOTH points of view. I know the scriptures in support of it, and I know the arguments given about Jesus. I lean heavily towards the belief that Jesus came and paid the price of death that we all owe for our sins, and I think it’s without this consideration that we feel obliged to do it again. I think Jesus’ death covered death the first time and I couldn’t do it any better. If anyone wants to go into this part of the Biblical debate, I’d be happy to. However, I believe that if we go a little deeper, we find that we cannot, as Christians, be in support of the death penalty regardless of the above debate.
My support for this statement is this. Now don’t panic here, just keep reading. Even IF the Bible (hypothetical here), in both the old AND the new Testaments condoned the death penalty...I would STILL be against it as it is today. Note “as it is today.” I submit to you that there is nothing Biblical about the death penalty in America today. If the Bible does indeed support a death penalty, it is NOT the death penalty currently in place. The death penalty of today is a cry of anger, vengeance and an effort by our leaders to please the angry crowd and a grieving family. True, this is not the case with everybody. But in general, that is what is bred by it. When people cheer at 12:01am for the death of someone who has done horrendous things...that isn’t of God. That isn’t Holy. Families are consistently surprised to find that there is no consolation in the deaths of these people. I believe that if the Bible supports a death penalty, it would be one of reverence, prayer and sorrow for the potential loss of a soul....not one that appeases the masses thirst for blood.
The level of crime is not an issue, either. Get this...I believe that I myself have committed multiple murder in my life. I believe that we are capable of murdering someone in our own minds. When we refuse to forgive, when we “kill” someone in our hearts. I believe the sixth commandment includes this as a type of murder. I’m not going to pretend that in the human sense, I don’t see the difference...I absolutely do. But I’m not sure God does. What happens is, the level of anguish, evil or whatever in the heart of violent criminals is reflected in the crime. Or, the level of crime dictates to us the state of a person’s spirit. That is how WE judge it, as humans.
The problem is, at it’s root, that today’s version of the death penalty in general is not only in support of vengeance and anger, but breeds it and encourages it in it’s nature. I cannot support it because it feeds people’s hunger for justice apart from God. It is a human answer, and not a Godly one. When we execute someone today, there is no Godly spirit ANYWHERE in the process. On the contrary, Satan has people cheering and saying things over coffee like “they need to fry him” or “I’d like to do it myself.” If these things are truly felt, they are not of God. I have felt them myself and it makes me want desperately to believe in the death penalty in some cases. But examining my heart, I find it is out of anger and vengeance and nothing more. I can candy coat it, but that’s the bottom line for most people. I believe this is the nature of the death penalty as it is today, and I cannot support as such. If there is a death penalty that the Bible condones, I believe it is certainly not the one we have in place today. God has been given no place in it.
 

Andrew

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Just skimmed thru it and have one comment:

You seem to be against the death penalty becos of the behaviour of the 'audience'. So there's nothing wrong with the Law itself, just how the audience responds to a hanging.

I believe God sets up authorities and we are to obey them. So if the death penalty comes with it, then we'll just have to live with it.

If the death penalty is cruel or wrong then war is wrong too, becos it's even more cruel and gruesome and barbaric.

just some thots :)
 
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VOW

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To Damon:

I agree with you.

However, please be aware that is definitely the minority opinion in this entire forum, and you're gonna get BBQed over it. You'll get the Levitical laws pounded over your head, and obedience to the Government, and "the wages of sin" business, too.

Stick to your guns.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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ZiSunka

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I oppose the death penalty because it cheapens all human life by demonstrating that some people are disposable.

I oppose abortion for the same reason.

In our society, we have come to believe that anyone who is an inconvenience to us, like unwanted babies, the disabled and criminals we can't rehabiliate, can and should be put to death so we won't have the burden of caring for them for life. It is a selfish attitude that neglects to remember that God created each of us, and loves every part of his creation, and that Jesus died for the unwanted ones, too, whether we like it or not.

When Jesus had the opportunity to enforce his own captial law, adultery, he refused, reminding everyone their that all sins are worthy of death. He didn't ask the adulterer for some great act of worthiness, nor did he seek her to even repent publically, yet he chose to rescind the prescribed punishment according to his own law.

Humans are not disposable in the heart of God, therefore, I oppose the death penalty.
 
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Shane Roach

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Before anyone even gets a chance to talk the accusation is that everyone who supports the death penalty is fixated on the past, doesn't value life, blah blah blah.

You will never get anywhere if you continue to accuse people of being evil and ignorant just for disagreeing with you.

Two people here I know I have specifically talked at length about this and I am truly sick and tired of the accusations. No one here has so much as touched the real underlying cause of people supporting the death penalty, which is that it is flatly unfair for the government to intervene on behalf of criminals after they have commited heinous crime and been convicted of it. The idea that God is against it is insupportable. If it were an evil insitution then why on earth would He have instituted it? At the very worst, it is a practical premision He has given us knowing that most simply cannot bear the burden of absorbing the horrible trauma of having a loved one killed without some sort of controlled and measured retribution.

You have problems with the way innocent people are convicted? Then fix our trial and jury processes. Don't presume to judge people's motives for supporting true justice for crimes.

This topic comes up again and again and it never changes because a substantial number of people simply refuse to address the real objections I and others have put foreward, but rather make charicatures of our concerns and take on a holier than thou, more loving than thou posture and begin blasting away with their character assassinations.
 
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kern

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Originally posted by Shane Roach

You have problems with the way innocent people are convicted? Then fix our trial and jury processes. Don't presume to judge people's motives for supporting true justice for crimes.

But the Death Penalty is irreversible if new evidence is uncovered, whereas a life sentence can be commuted.

I do not think much about the morality of the death penalty because my objection to it is not based on moral grounds -- I think it is unacceptable that the government should execute any innocent people. Since we know that the justice system cannot be perfect, we should not execute anyone. (It's also very bad if an innocent person gets a life sentence, but I don't believe that quite rises to the level of "unacceptable", so don't try to use a slippery slope argument with this.)

-Chris
 
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kern

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Originally posted by Gerry
God, Himself, instituted the death penalty in the old testament and did not change it in the NT under grace.

What about the scene with the adulteress and the people who were going to stone her?

The death penalty in the Old Testament was prescribed for such offenses as dishonoring your mother and father, worshipping a different god, and prostitution -- you think all of these should be punished by death? If not, then why are you allowed to pronounce one part of the Law inapplicable but still hold another part as acceptable?

-Chris
 
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Defender of the Faith 777

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Why I believe in the Justice Penalty (or you can call it the "death penalty")

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth bro. "Oh yeah, well turn the other cheek!" um... that verse is great and all, it says we should forgive others and let them do it again. This is a person/person relationship advisement, not a government/serial killer command. If you want to know how the government should respond to those who act, then read the context that was written for the government.

Second, for some, death penalty is the only form of justice. Let's face reality: a federal penitentiary where you don't have to clock in to go to work, people feed you, shelter you, and pay for your bills is a vacation. Life im"prison"ment is the best reward vacation they could imagine. Heck, if you were a bum, you could kill 300 people and live for free, with people feeding you if we had no capital punishment. We'd pay taxes to reward them.

Third, it is painless, and if you view death like me, it too is a pleasant experience. It's us shedding our coccoon of finity, weakness, fragility. And gaining a glorified body to dwell with God. Not to mention that the death is private, and done VERY painlessly. If only I could die the priveledged way they did. Immediate burial, no blood or gore, just a painless injection and your heart stops. I'll take it.

Just a little advice from a Christian teen that'll probably be ignored...
 
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kern

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Lethal Injection is also extremely expensive (I have heard that it's more expensive than a life sentence, but I haev a hard time believing this and suspect it's exaggerated by anti-death penalty advocates). In some strange way, I would almost prefer a firing squad or a hanging (not public) if the lethal injection really is so expensive.

-Chris
 
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The death penalty is wrong.

Here are only a few reasons why:
1.only G_D has the right to choose when a person shall die.

2. What is the difference between the people who call for a criminal's death and the criminal. It makes you a murderer to.

3. Those who claim it was instructed in the "OT" and has not changed push this but will deny the rest of the laws of G_D.

4. As long as there is even a chance that an innocent man will loose his life, then such a cruel and inhumane practice should never even be considered.

Let him who is without sin throw the first stone....
If we lived in a G_DLY world, then we would still be stoning people....but all have fallen into sin and none are without it.

Revenge does not equal justice.
 
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jimigold

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Originally posted by Defender of the Faith 777
Why I believe in the Justice Penalty (or you can call it the "death penalty")

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth bro. "Oh yeah, well turn the other cheek!" um... that verse is great and all, it says we should forgive others and let them do it again. This is a person/person relationship advisement, not a government/serial killer command. If you want to know how the government should respond to those who act, then read the context that was written for the government.

Second, for some, death penalty is the only form of justice. Let's face reality: a federal penitentiary where you don't have to clock in to go to work, people feed you, shelter you, and pay for your bills is a vacation. Life im"prison"ment is the best reward vacation they could imagine. Heck, if you were a bum, you could kill 300 people and live for free, with people feeding you if we had no capital punishment. We'd pay taxes to reward them.

Third, it is painless, and if you view death like me, it too is a pleasant experience. It's us shedding our coccoon of finity, weakness, fragility. And gaining a glorified body to dwell with God. Not to mention that the death is private, and done VERY painlessly. If only I could die the priveledged way they did. Immediate burial, no blood or gore, just a painless injection and your heart stops. I'll take it.

Just a little advice from a Christian teen that'll probably be ignored...

Yeah but doesn't jesus specifically denounce (if that's the right word) the "eye for an eye" verse when he says "turn the other cheek"?

In my bible it has him saying something like: "you have heard of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth but i tell you if a man strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also...."

Jesus surely meant that instead of the old rule not just to take it's place in some situations and not in others.

P.S: For example do you still believe that "you are not allowed to have sexual relations with a women in her monthly period, when she is unclean" (leviticus)?

There are loads of old rules such as this that were clearly changed when the new covenant came along.
 
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jimigold

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Revenge does not equal justice.

I agree entirely! Very good point!

My personal opinion is that it is something implemented by the government, because they are trying to please the masses which mostly seem to want to do it out of revenge/hate/anger or mere bloodthirstyness. All of which either are because of, or lead directly to THE DEVIL. (*inserts appropriatly spooky music*)

On the other hand you do end up with a load of verrry evil human beings in full-to-bursting jails. Just leaving them to die in crowded prisons doesn't seem right either.

In theory it seems right to re-habilitate them back into society, but is that phizicaly possible? (?spelling?)

But hey NEthing is better then the current method (isn't it?)
 
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Slave2SinNoMore

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I am strongly against the death penalty, because innocent men have been executed and will continue to be executed. That's wrong...just wrong.

However, I cannot say that everyone who supports the death penalty is cold and cruel. I know some fine Christian folks who support it. I just think that if supporters really concentrate on the innocents, they might develop different feelings.

And no, being against the death penalty doesn't mean I'm coddling the criminals, or want them released. That is one thing that is almost brought up when I state my views. I want criminals punished, but in case there's a chance someone is innocent, I don't think the state should kill `him/her.

 

 
 
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kern

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Originally posted by jimigold

My personal opinion is that it is something implemented by the government, because they are trying to please the masses which mostly seem to want to do it out of revenge/hate/anger or mere bloodthirstyness.

Or because they think it's moral because the Old Testament laws advocate the death penalty. I agree with S2SNM, death penalty advocates are not all bloodthirsty idiots. People have a number of different reasons for supporting the death penalty.

-Chris
 
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jimigold

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Yeah i agree with that. There are people who support it for all the right reasons.
But it is a very easy issue to support for the wrong reasons, and the devil is taking advantage of it. I mean you can watch executions on TV can't you (that is probably untrue, i just watch a lot of Simpsons). People should want to bring justice on the criminals, but i don't think it is right to be sadisticly enjoying watching them die.

Obviously not everyone is like that, but some people are.
Also it's gone beyond justice. When that guy bombed that school, everyone just wanted him to DIEDIEDIE YOU ******* **** **** DIE!!!

That's just revenge, not jusice. It can't be right to take a pleasure out of it. Just to know you are doing God's will.

I think the whole system is too corrupt.

BIG IMPORTANT POINT: Hey i just thought of something!

It is obvious that the country isn't doing it because it's Gods Will. America is no longer a Christian country. That's made clear as prayers are not allowed in public schools and the pledge of allegiance is under threat because it contains the words "under God".

That proves (to me anyway) that the country is doing it all for the wrong reasons and it would be better just to stop it than to let the Devil manifest himself into it furthur.

ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT: Do you think it was just the Christians in the country who were demanding the death of that bomber.

I can't explain it anymore than that, except that i just don't feel that the current system is right.

It still leaves the question:
"is the concept of execution by God's Will right?"

jimi
 
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Blessed-one

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look at the existing law of the governments around the world. Lawyers go on to court to defend a murderer, they go on to court to defend an executive who stole enough to be sent to jail.
Honestly, the court system is so flawed and rigid yet with enough loopholes to allow a slip of justice. And it's been turned into a place of vengence, as TorahsDisciple had said, revenge doesn't equal justice. (this reminds me of the adultory woman in John chapter 8, Jesus didn't condemn the woman, but instead told her to live a life away from sin. In Matthew, we're told to practise justice, mercy and faithfulness. Justice without mercy brings condemnation.)

Can we trust the court system to bring a fair enough justice on a person and sentence him/her to death? i'd rather let God do it in the last day, and let Him decide which one to be sent to hell.
 
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