Distinction in the Godhead?

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ccastellow

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I want to relate to some of you that I am a Oneness Pentecostal follower of our Lord Jesus Christ. Furthermore, I want to say that after much study on the nature of the Godhead it has been revealed to me that there is a clear distinction of persons in the Godhead. However, it is not what the trinitarian doctrine subscribes to. :confused: :preach:


Anybody can look through the pages of the Bible in the New Testament and see a clear distinction between Father and Son. The Son is in fact the main proponent of this fact and speaks about it quite often. If we tend towards the belief that Jesus is God the Son and is a second person of the Godhead we will undoubtedly fall towards subordinating or making Him inferior to His Father. He even does this by always submitting to His Fathers will. So what is this distinction between the two which would keep intact the Old Testaments teaching of ONE GOD?

This is made easy if you will just open your mind to a new idea and let what you have believed in the past subside for just a minute. Are you ready?:clap:

God is YHWH. He never had a beginning and He will never have an ending. He is the Father of creation, He is the Father of the born-again believers and He is the Father of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He had a beginning and as the Son will have an ending. He is God after God became a man. He is your distinction. Before His birth, God was a Spirit with no physical bodily form. After the Incarnation, God now had flesh added to His being. He was no longer existing as just Spirit but now included humanity into His existence.

This is why Jesus spoke the way He did about His Father. This is why the Holy Spirit can proceed from BOTH the Father and the Son. This is why Jesus said that He and the Father were one. This is why Jesus prayed and submitted His will to the Father's will. The Spirit that dwelt in Jesus was the Spirit of YHWH. This is how Jesus could say that when the Holy Ghost came to comfort the disciples Jesus would be there. It was the Spirit who before Jesus did not have a body. Jesus is the visible representation of God the Father. Now go back and read your Bible with all this in mind and see how the verses of truth leap out at your soul. These are the last days my brothers and sisters and it is time that we stop following after man-made doctrines and creeds and start following what the Word of God has to say about His very essence. God is one and He has clothed Himself in humanity to be closer to His creation so that He could save us from ourselves. Who better to save us than the ONE who made us. God blesss you all in your search for truth.:groupray: :amen:
 
Wow. Just...wow. You realize that this is nothing new right? You have simply regurgitated the heresy of Modalism.

God in Three Persons





The early Christians were quick to spot new heresies. In the third century, Sabellius, a Libyan priest who was staying at Rome, invented a new one. He claimed there is only one person in the Godhead, so that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one person with different "offices," rather than three persons who are one being in the Godhead, as the orthodox position holds.

Of course, people immediately recognized that Sabellius’s teaching contradicted the historic faith of the Church, and he was quickly excommunicated. His heresy became known as Sabellianism, Modalism, and Patripassianism. It was called Sabellianism after its founder, Modalism after the three modes or roles which it claimed the one person of the Trinity occupied, and Patripassianism after its implication that the person of the Father (Pater-) suffered (-passion) on the cross when Jesus died.

Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).

Modalism quickly died out; it was too contrary to the ancient Christian faith to survive for long. Unfortunately, it was reintroduced in the early twentieth century in the new Pentecostal movement. In its new form, Modalism is often referred to as Jesus Only theology since it claims that Jesus is the only person in the Godhead and that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are merely names, modes, or roles of Jesus. Today the United Pentecostal Church, as well as numerous smaller groups which call themselves "apostolic churches," teach the Jesus Only doctrine. Through the Word Faith movement, it has begun to infect traditionally Trinitarian Pentecostalism. Ironically, Trinity Broadcasting Network, operated by Word Faith preacher Paul Crouch, has given a television voice to many of these Jesus Only preachers (who are, of course, militantly anti-Trinitarian).

In the quotes that follow, the Fathers’ forceful rejection of Modalism is shown not only when they condemn it by name, but also by passages in which they speak of one person of the Trinity being with another, being sent from another, or speaking to another.

The Letter of Barnabas


"And further, my brethren, if the Lord [Jesus] endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, ‘Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,’ understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men" (Letter of Barnabas 5 [A.D. 74] emphasis added).

Hermas


"The Son of God is older than all his creation, so that he became the Father’s adviser in his creation. Therefore also he is ancient" (The Shepherd 12 [A.D. 80]).

Ignatius of Antioch


"Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . . . [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent him" (Letter to the Magnesians 6–8 [A.D. 110] emphasis added).

Justin Martyr


"God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let us make man after our image and likeness.’ . . . I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with someone numerically distinct from himself and also a rational being. . . . But this offspring who was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with him" (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 62 [A.D. 155]).

Polycarp of Smyrna


"I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 14 [A.D. 155] emphasis added).

Mathetes


"[The Father] sent the Word that he might be manifested to the world. . . . This is he who was from the beginning, who appeared as if new, and was found old. . . . This is he who, being from everlasting, is today called the Son" (Letter to Diognetus 11 [A.D. 160] emphasis added).

Irenaeus


"It was not angels, therefore, who made us nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor anyone else. . . . For God did not stand in need of these in order to accomplish what he had himself determined with himself beforehand should be done, as if he did not possess his own hands. For with him [the Father] were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, he made all things, to whom also he speaks, saying, ‘Let us make man in our image and likeness’ [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1 [A.D. 189] emphasis added).

Tertullian


"While keeping to this demurrer always, there must, nevertheless, be place for reviewing for the sake of the instruction and protection of various persons. Otherwise it might seem that each perverse opinion is not examined but simply prejudged and condemned. This is especially so in the case of the present heresy [Sabellianism], which considers itself to have the pure truth when it supposes that one cannot believe in the one only God in any way other than by saying that Father, Son, and Spirit are the selfsame person. As if one were not all . . . through the unity of substance" (Against Praxeas 2:3–4 [A.D. 216]).

"Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe, now, that I say the Father is other [distinct], and the Son is other, and the Spirit is other.
. . . I say this, however, out of necessity, since they contend that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are the selfsame person" (ibid. 9:1).

Hippolytus


"Thus, after the death of Zephyrinus, supposing that he had obtained [the position] after which he so eagerly pursued, he [Pope Callistus] excommunicated Sabellius, as not entertaining orthodox opinions" (Refutation of All Heresies 9:7 [A.D. 228]).

Novatian


"[W]ho does not acknowledge that the person of the Son is second after the Father, when he reads that it was said by the Father, consequently to the Son, ‘Let us make man in our image and our likeness’ [Gen. 1:26]? Or when he reads [as having been said] to Christ: ‘Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten you. Ask of me, and I will give you the heathens for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession’ [Ps. 2:7–8]? Or when also that beloved writer says: ‘The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I shall make your enemies the stool of your feet’ [Ps. 110:1]? Or when, unfolding the prophecies of Isaiah, he finds it written thus: ‘Thus says the Lord to Christ my Lord’? Or when he reads: ‘I came not down from heaven to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me’ [John 6:38]? Or when he finds it written: ‘Because he who sent me is greater than I’ [cf. John 14:24, 28]? Or when he finds it placed side by side with others: ‘Moreover, in your law it is written that the witness of two is true. I bear witness of myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness of me’ [cf. John 8:17–18]?" (Treatise on the Trinity 26 [A.D. 235]).

"And I should have enough to do were I to endeavor to gather together all the passages [of the kind in the previous quotation] . . . since the divine Scripture, not so much of the Old as also of the New Testament, everywhere shows him to be born of the Father, by whom all things were made, and without whom nothing was made, who always has obeyed and obeys the Father; that he always has power over all things, but as delivered, as granted, as by the Father himself permitted to him. And what can be so evident proof that this is not the Father, but the Son; as that he is set forth as being obedient to God the Father, unless, if he be believed to be the Father, Christ may be said to be subjected to another God the Father?" (ibid.)

Pope Dionysius


"Next, then, I may properly turn to those who divide and cut apart and destroy the monarchy, the most sacred proclamation of the Church of God, making of it, as it were, three powers, distinct substances, and three godheads. I have heard that some of your catechists and teachers of the divine Word take the lead in this tenet. They are, so to speak, diametrically opposed to the opinion of Sabellius. He, in his blasphemy, says that the Son is the Father and vice versa" (Letters of Pope Dionysius to Bishop Dionysius of Alexandria 1:1 [A.D. 262]).

Gregory the Wonderworker


"But some treat the Holy Trinity in an awful manner, when they confidently assert that there are not three persons, and introduce (the idea of) a person devoid of subsistence. Wherefore we clear ourselves of Sabellius, who says that the Father and the Son are the same [person]. . . . We forswear this, because we believe that three persons—namely, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—are declared to possess the one Godhead: for the one divinity showing itself forth according to nature in the Trinity establishes the oneness of the nature" (A Sectional Confession of Faith 8 [A.D. 262]).

"But if they say, ‘How can there be three persons, and how but one divinity?’ we shall make this reply: That there are indeed three persons, inasmuch as there is one person of God the Father, and one of the Lord the Son, and one of the Holy Spirit; and yet that there is but one divinity, inasmuch as . . . there is one substance in the Trinity" (ibid., 14).

Methodius


"For the kingdom of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is one, even as their substance is one and their dominion one. Whence also, with one and the same adoration, we worship the one deity in three persons, subsisting without beginning, uncreated, without end, and to which there is no successor. For neither will the Father ever cease to be the Father, nor again the Son to be the Son and King, nor the Holy Ghost to be what in substance and personality he is. For nothing of the Trinity will suffer diminution, either in respect of eternity, or of communion, or of sovereignty" (Oration on the Psalms 5 [A.D. 305]).

Athanasius


"[The Trinity] is a Trinity not merely in name or in a figurative manner of speaking; rather, it is a Trinity in truth and in actual existence. Just as the Father is he that is, so also his Word is one that is and is God over all. And neither is the Holy Spirit nonexistent but actually exists and has true being. Less than these the Catholic Church does not hold, lest she sink to the level of the Jews of the present time, imitators of Caiaphas, or to the level of Sabellius" (Letters to Serapion 1:28 [A.D. 359]).

"They [the Father and the Son] are one, not as one thing now divided into two, but really constituting only one, nor as one thing twice named, so that the same becomes at one time the Father and at another his own Son. This latter is what Sabellius held, and he was judged a heretic. On the contrary, they are two, because the Father is Father and is not his own Son, and the Son is Son and not his own Father" (Discourses Against the Arians 3:4 [A.D. 360]).

Fulgentius of Ruspe


"See, in short you have it that the Father is one, the Son another, and the Holy Spirit another; in person, each is other, but in nature they are not other. In this regard he [Christ] says, ‘The Father and I, we are one’ [John 10:30]. He teaches us that ‘one’ refers to their nature and ‘we are’ to their persons. In like manner it is said, ‘There are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and these three are one’ [cf. 1 John 5:7]. Let Sabellius hear ‘we are,’ let him hear ‘three,’ and let him believe that there are three persons" (The Trinity 4:1 [A.D. 513]).
 
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ccastellow

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eoe said:
Wow. Just...wow. You realize that this is nothing new right? You have simply regurgitated the heresy of Modalism.

(staff edit)
Better yet to be nice, all the quotes you just wrote there are all men. How about giving me something from the Bible?
 
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hraedisc

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There is only one God. This is a clear teaching of the Bible. (Mark 12:29-34)

The question is, which God do you worship? Do you worship the true God of the Bible or do you worship a false idea of God?

1. First of all there is the belief that God is a Trinity. This is the belief of most Christians. According to this dogma God has three parts. One part is called Father, one part is called Son, and the other part is called Holy Spirit. All three parts, or persons make up one great being. This being has all power, all knowledge, and has existed forever with his three parts or persons.

2. Second, there is the belief that God is only one Person, but that He reveals Himself in different ways at different times. For example, in the Old Testament He was the Father, then He (the same person) took on the form of the Son when Christ was on earth, and afterwards He became the Holy Spirit. This belief is commonly referred to as the“Jesus only”doctrine.

3. Third, there is the belief that there are three almighty Beings who all have exactly the same authority and power and that they have all lived for all eternity. All three are said to be God, but because they are in agreement in everything they do, they are said to be one God. According to this belief, these three Beings (Gods) decided long, long ago to act in three different roles. One would act as Father, one as Son and one would work as Holy Spirit.

4. Fourth, there is the belief that God is only one Person, and that this Person is the Father alone. It is said that Jesus Christ was created by God long, long ago and was set above the rest of creation. The Holy Spirit is said to be God’s power, or active force. This is the belief of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Can all these ideas be correct? Of course not! But does it really matter? I mean, as long as we say “God,” and try to do what is right, does it matter what we believe? It certainly does! There is a popular belief in the world today that it does not matter what a person believes as long as he or she calls upon the name of God. This is a false and very dangerous idea. The Bible teaches us that those who do not love the truth will be deceived and will believe a lie. Because they believe this lie they will be damned (condemned) and destroyed. (2 Thess. 2:10-12) Jesus Himself said: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3) And yet, how can we know God if we do not even know who we are talking to when we call upon God? Do we mean:

A. Three persons who are really one Being?
B. One person operating in three ways?
C. Three almighty beings acting in three roles?
D. One person and a created Son?

We have outlined four popular ideas, each one different from the other and yet none of these present the true, biblical teaching about God.
 
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If you believe this, truly believe, then the love of God will transform your life. You will have fellowship with the true God and His Son (1 John 1:3) and you will be given a place in the kingdom of God.

you omitted what the bible has to say about the holy spirit. don't forget that you have a practical fellowship with the father and the son because the spirit of god dwells in you.


.
 
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A New Dawn

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MOD HAT ON!

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MOD HAT OFF!
 
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