Is the end closer than we think!
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Give me a break. No company is going to make a chip like that, they're all aware of the Revelation objections.
And you can't make arguments like "Well, if it's not a chip then what is it?" Who knows what it will be, but that doesn't mean it *has* to be a chip.
-Chris (doesn't believe in rapture anyway)
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WILDFIRE : The false prophet makes fire come down from heaven on the earth for the purpose of decieving people into woshiping the first beast . And the worshiped the first beast by saying who is able to fight with him . I'm assuming that this means that the people are getting or joining together to create a military machine under the direction of the false prophet . I mention this in light of an earlier post where the word worship was used . I would like to continue this conversation with you so as to understand your thoughts on this matter also . possibly bringing us back to the buying and selling , as that's been bugging me also . thanks .
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HI Shaggy, yes I understand what you are saying, but I am not so certain that there will be a "raptue" before the great tribulation. Revelation tells us that the angels <seal> those who are chosen during this time. And >they come out of it. Jesus' conversation with the disciples about the end times also supports this. (not to change the subject!)
Brian; have you ever consdiered that the buying and selling could be related to the changing of the original sabbath (which is Saturday-the biggest shopping day of the week) I'm sure this may sound weak to some, but there are only six days of the week if you ignore the seventh and the number of man is six.
Wildfire
Brian; have you ever consdiered that the buying and selling could be related to the changing of the original sabbath (which is Saturday-the biggest shopping day of the week) I'm sure this may sound weak to some, but there are only six days of the week if you ignore the seventh and the number of man is six.
Wildfire
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Brian, I wanted to respond to what you said about the false prophet. Yes, it does sound like a military wonder and he will be a great influence during this time... Because satan is cast down to the earth for a short time, I wonder if his "arrival" will be seen? -stretch- I am not a firm believer in UFO's and things like that, but if something like this were to occur, how do you think the world would react? curious.
Wildfire
Wildfire
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LOL, i enjoy the fact, that all of us can debate with good humour. I'm not sure what the mark will be but I think it's concievable that it could be a chip, based on all the advances in computers and such. I'm not and expert nor claim to be one, just giving my humble opinion.
gwyyn
gwyyn
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hmmmm I was reading revelations and noticed something interesting about the mark. I'm thinking that the mark does not have to have the name, or number of the beast.
It's like three seperate things. take a look...
revelations
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
I see it says Save he that had the mark.
interesting that the computer chips are being
sold as something that can save your life.
now the other words small ones that leap out are or.
it says... Save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
big word here is or, it doesn't say and, or even with.
so there's a mark, and a name, and a number. I think
it's highly possible these are three different things.
It's like three seperate things. take a look...
revelations
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
I see it says Save he that had the mark.
interesting that the computer chips are being
sold as something that can save your life.
now the other words small ones that leap out are or.
it says... Save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
big word here is or, it doesn't say and, or even with.
so there's a mark, and a name, and a number. I think
it's highly possible these are three different things.
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13:17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. (RSV)
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
And to GTX: You are using circular reasoning. How do you know the mark will be something using 21st century technology rather than 30th or 600th century technology?
-Chris
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From what I can tell the mark of the beast will not appear until the mid point in the tribulations. This is after the 7 seal and trumpet judgments, but before the vial judgments.
This also means that if the rapture occurs at the begining or in the middle of the tribulation it will still be BEFORE the mark is required.
After all of the seal and trumpet judgements happen a person would have to be blind(spiritualy) or just plain stupid to not know what the mark is. By the time the mark is required, anyone who has ever heard the prophesies should have no doubt who the beast is and what will happen next.
So while the technology that will eventually become the mark may be in development. I don't think there will be a doubt in anyone's mind once it is to be used.
Scott P
This also means that if the rapture occurs at the begining or in the middle of the tribulation it will still be BEFORE the mark is required.
After all of the seal and trumpet judgements happen a person would have to be blind(spiritualy) or just plain stupid to not know what the mark is. By the time the mark is required, anyone who has ever heard the prophesies should have no doubt who the beast is and what will happen next.
So while the technology that will eventually become the mark may be in development. I don't think there will be a doubt in anyone's mind once it is to be used.
Scott P
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If any preterists have any questions, please contact Erwin, Josephus or any of the staff.
Thank you,
John
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I thank u all 4 repling 2 my thread. An interesting subject. Some of u r right on track and i believe some of u r way off the beaten path, thus the devil already has u where he wants u. Shaggy i agree with much u had 2 say. ss#, barcodes, etc r just prerequisites 4 whats 2 come. I do believe this embeded chip, which is alot different from what we've had 2 deal with so far, is a new era in govermental control. We don't need our ss# to buy candy from the candy store although at sears u need a telephone #. But i do believe we are working towards a cashless society,(debit cards), and this is how the mark will b implemented. No mark no candy, food ,lemonade to pay the neighbors kid . We have 2 b very wise nothing is as it seems anymore. I will not accept this new technolgical marvel.
Shaggy i agree with much u had 2 say. ss#, barcodes, etc r just prerequisites 4 whats 2 come. I do believe this embeded chip, which is alot different from what we've had 2 deal with so far, is a new era in govermental control. We don't need our ss# to buy candy from the candy store although at sears u need a telephone #. But i do believe we are working towards a cashless society,(debit cards), and this is how the mark will b implemented. No mark no candy, food ,lemonade to pay the neighbors kid . We have 2 b very wise nothing is as it seems anymore. I will not accept this new technolgical marvel.
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i think that is like having a tracking device on u, where they know where u are, at all times.
or cameras.
or cameras.
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For greater concern, will that 666 chip be a chocolate chip or a potato chip?
I don't think it will be a computer chip. Those things taste awful.
Just kidding!
YM
But seriously, the more important issue is to realize that the "mark of the beast" has to do explictly with the renouncing of the Christian faith. Why else would God warn us not to take it?
All of us already have numbers - our bank number, passport number, driving license number etc.. there is nothing wrong with numbers.
I don't think it will be a computer chip. Those things taste awful.
Just kidding!
YM
But seriously, the more important issue is to realize that the "mark of the beast" has to do explictly with the renouncing of the Christian faith. Why else would God warn us not to take it?
All of us already have numbers - our bank number, passport number, driving license number etc.. there is nothing wrong with numbers.
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This I might say is pretty interesting. I however do not believe that any implant will be the mark of the beast.
The mark of the beast has nothing to do with technology. It has to do with worship, how and whom one worships actually. The mark is a spiritual thing. Altho I do believe that technology will find a way to seperate those that have the mark from those that dont.
If you refuse to worship the beast / his image you receive the mark. In other words if you don't accept the form of worship then you will be out casted. You will have economic sanctions slapped on you. How. Now that is where technology comes in.
I believe that in light of the events that took place Sept 11 that we will all be forced like it or not to have some sort of id. that ID will not be meant to do us harm, but it will be the governments way of making sure we are legal amer. citizens.
As time progresses this same form of ID (what ever it is) will in the end be used against those that serve the Lord. Those that refuse to knuckle under and worship against their conscience will not get their ID activated, or should I say it will be deactivated. Once that happens we will not be able to use it to buy or sell or anything. Some will then break down and accept the form of worshipped forced upon them (thus the mark in the hand). They worship against what they believe to be the truth, because they forget they have the promise from Jesus that He will be with them.
Eventually the ones that stay firm will face a death penalty for their choice of loyalty to the Saviour. .... I am getting tired and seeng double. think I better head to bed as it is 2:14 am here. Hope what I posted is clear enough to understand.........Night
The mark of the beast has nothing to do with technology. It has to do with worship, how and whom one worships actually. The mark is a spiritual thing. Altho I do believe that technology will find a way to seperate those that have the mark from those that dont.
If you refuse to worship the beast / his image you receive the mark. In other words if you don't accept the form of worship then you will be out casted. You will have economic sanctions slapped on you. How. Now that is where technology comes in.
I believe that in light of the events that took place Sept 11 that we will all be forced like it or not to have some sort of id. that ID will not be meant to do us harm, but it will be the governments way of making sure we are legal amer. citizens.
As time progresses this same form of ID (what ever it is) will in the end be used against those that serve the Lord. Those that refuse to knuckle under and worship against their conscience will not get their ID activated, or should I say it will be deactivated. Once that happens we will not be able to use it to buy or sell or anything. Some will then break down and accept the form of worshipped forced upon them (thus the mark in the hand). They worship against what they believe to be the truth, because they forget they have the promise from Jesus that He will be with them.
Eventually the ones that stay firm will face a death penalty for their choice of loyalty to the Saviour. .... I am getting tired and seeng double. think I better head to bed as it is 2:14 am here. Hope what I posted is clear enough to understand.........Night
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What is so bad about a cashless society? It wouldn't be the first one in human history -- there was a time before the invention of cash when things were still on a barter system. Certianly the early Hebrews would have fit in this category!
-Chris
-Chris
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Hello all!!! Praise God!!!! 
Before I introduce my belief let me start off abruptly and say I AM NOT A PRETERIST!!!
Sorry, ok now that I got that out of the way let me say . . . ah um. . . I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist
.
However, remember . . . I am not a Preterist,
I only see the FUTURE through the eyes of Christ's generation 33-70 AD. I am not a dispensationalist, I do not believe there is a new Dispensation starting in AD 70 either.
Does anyone think that is Preterism??? I hope not!, because I am a Futurist.
When I look at the future I look for examples from the time of that generation that Christ was concerned with to show what will happen in the future. To me that is our road map. I do not deviate outside of that thinking that this generation had. Whatever happened to them will happen to man. I do not see it all happening all at once after we are raptured either, then in that case it is not relevant as far as I can see. Rather I see these principles repeated again and again until Christ comes for us.
For instance, here in NY we had the World Trade Centers fall. I was there during the search and rescue on the 14th. To me this is a sign of Christ coming in judgment on America. I remember hearing some explanation like this on the 700 club that I agreed whole heartedly with.
Donald James Perry
OPC Westfield, NJ
PS Please do not call me a Preterist because I am a Futurist.
Before I introduce my belief let me start off abruptly and say I AM NOT A PRETERIST!!!
Sorry, ok now that I got that out of the way let me say . . . ah um. . . I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist
. However, remember . . . I am not a Preterist,
I only see the FUTURE through the eyes of Christ's generation 33-70 AD. I am not a dispensationalist, I do not believe there is a new Dispensation starting in AD 70 either. Does anyone think that is Preterism??? I hope not!,
because I am a Futurist. When I look at the future I look for examples from the time of that generation that Christ was concerned with to show what will happen in the future. To me that is our road map. I do not deviate outside of that thinking that this generation had. Whatever happened to them will happen to man. I do not see it all happening all at once after we are raptured either, then in that case it is not relevant as far as I can see. Rather I see these principles repeated again and again until Christ comes for us.
For instance, here in NY we had the World Trade Centers fall. I was there during the search and rescue on the 14th. To me this is a sign of Christ coming in judgment on America. I remember hearing some explanation like this on the 700 club that I agreed whole heartedly with.
Donald James Perry
OPC Westfield, NJ
PS Please do not call me a Preterist because I am a Futurist.
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I agree that we will become a cashless society in the near future. It will be done for good reasons. But then once we are faced with accepting the so called "mark" or not taking it, it will then be a problem. without our ID's activated then the chances of us having any cash on us will be zilch if we don't accept the mark( or false teachings and worship) of the beast. It will be our ID's that will get the money out of the bank. with out an active ID we will have no way to obtain the cash we need to keep life going... Our homes will be lost, no gasoline money, not food money, no utility money etc.
I firmly believe that 9/11 was the beginning of the end. Through out history we have been heading toward the end. I believe that day was the straw that broke the camels back. I am sure there is more problems waiting in our future that will rush the ID thing.
Again I don't believe it will be the mark of the beast, but will be a way that will eventually be used to seperate those that follow the beast from those that don't. When that day comes persecution of the righteous will be gin. Those persecuting will think what they are doing is in God's favor.
WHOA! I better get out before I get to far off the track.
Take care Sandi
I firmly believe that 9/11 was the beginning of the end. Through out history we have been heading toward the end. I believe that day was the straw that broke the camels back. I am sure there is more problems waiting in our future that will rush the ID thing.
Again I don't believe it will be the mark of the beast, but will be a way that will eventually be used to seperate those that follow the beast from those that don't. When that day comes persecution of the righteous will be gin. Those persecuting will think what they are doing is in God's favor.
WHOA! I better get out before I get to far off the track.
Take care Sandi
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Hoonbaba
Catholic Preterist
Originally posted by redirectionalism
Hello all!!! Praise God!!!!
Before I introduce my belief let me start off abruptly and say I AM NOT A PRETERIST!!!
Sorry, ok now that I got that out of the way let me say . . . ah um. . . I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist, I am not a Preterist
However, remember . . . I am not a Preterist,
Does anyone think that is Preterism??? I hope not!,
When I look at the future I look for examples from the time of that generation that Christ was concerned with to show what will happen in the future. To me that is our road map. I do not deviate outside of that thinking that this generation had. Whatever happened to them will happen to man. I do not see it all happening all at once after we are raptured either, then in that case it is not relevant as far as I can see. Rather I see these principles repeated again and again until Christ comes for us.
For instance, here in NY we had the World Trade Centers fall. I was there during the search and rescue on the 14th. To me this is a sign of Christ coming in judgment on America. I remember hearing some explanation like this on the 700 club that I agreed whole heartedly with.
Donald James Perry
OPC Westfield, NJ
PS Please do not call me a Preterist because I am a Futurist.
Hi Donald,
To my understanding, you hold onto a view of Revelation that teaches that most end times prophecy was already fulfilled, similar to a partial preterist view of eschatology, which teaches that Christ will return in the future. Is this true?
-Jason
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