The Difference?

Status
Not open for further replies.

edpobre

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2002
1,377
37
NEW YORK
✟3,067.00
Friends,

Chip Brogden wrote:
We must always be sure to distinguish between the Lord's invisible, universal, spiritual Church (the Ecclesia) ...


This statement does not have a Biblical basis. The truth is, this is not a description of the church that Christ built.

In Luke 12:32, Jesus was heard referring to his apostles as "little flock". And this flock is the Church of Christ that he purchased with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa).

That the church was a [v]visible[/b] and organized group of people is evidenced by the letters of the apostles to the members. Paul even referred to the as Churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16) much as Sdas, JWS, et. al. are called today.

There was one central administration in Jerusalem wher apostle James presided to settle disputes among members. Apostle Paul even admonished them to conduct the assembling together in an orderly manner.

Does Chip Brogden ever read the Bible or does he believe the Bible?

Ed
 
Upvote 0
P

Pull On Gravity

Guest
edpobre,

1st chip brogden did not submit the post, i did and i submitted an article that i obtained that mr. brodgen penned that i thought was VERY RELEVENT to the discussion that was transpiring. in most cases i would not have included the whole article, but these days some writers specifically request that the whole of their publication be quoted so that others may not "piecemeal" it and make it say something that was not intended.

as for the information contained within mr. brogden's article, it is CLEAR and EVIDENT that it has NOTHING to do with you. That's not a slam...it's just the way it is.

Jesus also said something to a number of men who did not understand nor have the capcity to even glimpse what He was referring to:

first he said: "you search the scriptures for life but life is not within them" then He qualified what He the rebuke to the pharisees and said "i am in front of you". (literal)

Paul said: things of the spirit are SPIRITUALLY unmderstood and the man of mental processes cannot understand these things (literal)

now, just besause i did not "quote" the KJV or any other version, but rather stated EXACTLY what those portions of scripture translate, there will most likely be a crowd of vultures to eat my flesh. big deal. i will fuel the fire so that my corspe can be injested as a BBQ....Jesus and Paul were saying:

there are somethings that many will never be able to grasp, even if they search the transcripts that contian spiritual truth, because those things cannot be revealed to such people who are constantly minpiulating the scripture to justify thier own dead ends...this kind of truth can only gleand and is only prestented to those who are in and of and led by the Spirit which unlocks that truth within their spirit.

have a field day....

gcs

blessings to those who follow Christ Jesus and pursue truth with a clear conscience.
 
Upvote 0
P

Pull On Gravity

Guest
Ryan,

i am glad that you read the article and that it caused you to think. just so that there is NO MISTAKE, it is clear that mr. brodgen is saying that the "organizational, institutional, membership based and driven -(church)" is in fact Babylon. in my estimate of what that particular edifice has displyed and it's fruit (or lack thereof), i would have to agree with mr. Brogden.

Also take note that he is not perpetuating that ALL THOSE MEMBERS in "churches" leave those buildings, his intent is only to provide a visual of the real difference between "man-made church" and the "called out ones" of the eccelisa of Christ.

History itself reveals a vast difference as does the word of God. I would encourage you to print the article and read it prayerfully again. i say this only b/c if you are truly writing a book and it will contain either direct or indirect attention to this subject, it is better to know the caliber of the issue from all sides in order to write SUBJECTIVLY. Now if you are writing a book to defend your docrine (or your church's doctrine), and points in this article are opposed to such, it would be to your interest to understand EXACTLY what mr. brogden is actually saying here so that you can refute it.

And there is another reason, perhaps you may discover that what the author has intended, which by the way is much more than "the system of Babylon". Which by the way, he does not provide an indepth look at, perferring to just "define" it and elaborate on the "application" of it within a systematic-man led system,commanly known as "church denominalzation".

May your seeking be fruitful and you friut be lasting


gcs
 
Upvote 0

Josephus

<b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b>
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2000
3,750
313
Kerbal Space Center
✟150,343.00
Faith
Messianic
Ed, if you post in here one more time regarding the deity of Jesus Christ, I will have to consider suspending you from the board for a time for not respecting our administrative requests. This forum is for topics of non basic doctrinal issues. This thead is about the nature of the church, not the nature of Jesus Christ. I will not allow this thread to be hijacked, especially since I am spending my time and energy witnessing in it.

As such, I am editing or deleting your posts in this thread within 24 hours as they are inappropriate to the discussion. Only that which is relevant to the discussion now will only exist. Thank you. If you have questions, email me directly at inigmatus@yahoo.com. Please do not address this issue here.

in Christ,
<><
Josephus

P.S. If you really want to engage in a good topic about the deity of Jesus Christ, I encourage you to post a new topic on it in the ROUND TABLES forum. Just not here. Thanks!
 
Upvote 0

Josephus

<b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b>
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2000
3,750
313
Kerbal Space Center
✟150,343.00
Faith
Messianic
POG:

What I write is that the truth of who we are, what we are doing, and what God is wanting us to will be made known to those who seek Him with all their heart. I believe it is something supernatural, something of the Spirit that reveals these basic truths to those in the church. And I find this process of discovery (not taught, not learned from a particular doctrine) prevalent in what He is doing among this generation today. Peoplare are searching for something real, something they can live and die for - something they can know is the truth and be willing to stand up for it in love.

The church is maturing and in that understanding I ask this simple question in the book:

What will the church look like when the persecution comes? Will it be grand churches with elected leadership, or will it be small groups of people risking their lives for training and fellowship - where everyone uses the gifts God has given them, while accepting everyone who comes in? There will be no membership lists, no established hierarchy.

What the church WILL become in persecution is what we should be focusing on now while there is freedom to explore and understand these truths. Many churches are taking that first step: home groups. In time, they can only give way to a system of small groups that meet with other small groups in a regional setting - maybe once a month so that they can stay connected with each other. My belief is that persecution will come when the love for truth grows cold, and many will fall away. It is in the basics of being a follower of the risen Savior, that we find an answer to what we are seeking in regards to what it is we belong to - a membership in which the Holy Spirit is the sole leader.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ed,
John 8:40 - Jesus says he is a man
>This does not deny His divinity.




John 17:3,1 - Jesus identifies the Father as the ONLY true God
>This does not deny His divinity either.
Since the 3 are 1, you could say the same thing about any of the 3.


John 20:17 - Jesus says he is going to HIS Father and OUR Father, to HIS God and OUR God
>Still doesn't deny divinity of Jesus.

Acts 2:22 - The MAN Jesus, attested by God
>No denial here.
Acts 17:31 - The MAN appointed by God
>This affirms His humanity, as before, w/out denying His divinity.

1 Tim. 2:5 - the MAN Christ Jesus only mediator between God and man
>This affirms His humanity, as before, w/out denying His divinity.

1 Cor. 8:6 - For Christians, there is only ONE God, the Father and ON Lord, Jesus Christ
What Bible version was that? Here's a KJV:
1Cor8:6": But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
>This identifies Jesus as The Creator.

1 Cor. 15:2`8 - Jesus himself will subject himself to God

>How do figure this from the text you mention?
1Cor15:2-8 "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7: After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8: And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time."

I realize how old this string is, I just found this forum & I'm lookin' for a definition of Protestant, to see if I measure up.
Still looking...

Oops, I didn't see page three.
At least Ed was directed to the round table.
Good Moderation!
 
Upvote 0

thaiv

ChristianforChrist
Jan 23, 2004
405
16
38
Dallas
✟15,650.00
Faith
Christian
Amen Pull on Gravity,

I skimmed through what you said and I would have to agree with you. Who do you assemble with? What do you think the NT principle of assembling together is? How was the church expressed in the NT? How should we meet today? Give me some insight to what you beleive.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.