California ID class is sacked

Erock83 said:

Why not? Is a 16 y/o (giver or take a few years) mind not capable of critical though?

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It's a question of the background information required to make an informed decision on the validity of complex scientific concepts. There simply isn't time for that in high school. There isn't even time for it in undergrad courses, to some extent.

MartinM said:

It's a question of the background information required to make an informed decision on the validity of complex scientific concepts. There simply isn't time for that in high school. There isn't even time for it in undergrad courses, to some extent.

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So because there is a lack of time or there is a perceived lack of time, that in turn justifies poor teaching methods?

One Love.

Erock83 said:

So because there is a lack of time or there is a perceived lack of time, that in turn justifies poor teaching methods?

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Trying to teach something for which there isn't time is itself a poor teaching method.

Erock83 said:

So because there is a lack of time or there is a perceived lack of time, that in turn justifies poor teaching methods?

One Love.

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I'll do you a deal. If anybody manages to get together a credible, scientific, peer reviewed and deemed accurate for 150 years idea that includes god together, it'll be put in school.

For the same reason I don't get taught homeopathy and for the same reason physics students aren't being taught astrology, there really is no place for ID alongside evolution.

MartinM said:

Trying to teach something for which there isn't time is itself a poor teaching method.

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Well education is paramount lets make time or make changes to create the time.

One Love

Erock83 said:

Well education is paramount lets make time or make changes to create the time.

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Which cutting edge scientific issues would you like 16 year olds with insufficient scientific knowledge to discuss, and what shall we drop to make room?

I was just wondering: Should discussion of Intelligent Design be on a science board, or a philosophy board?
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=21477451&postcount=18

Did you know the ruling in the Dover, PA case is being applauded all the way over in Japan. Where are all the outraged Japanese creationists I wonder?
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fe20060111rh.htm

hordeprime said:

I was just wondering: Should discussion of Intelligent Design be on a science board, or a philosophy board?
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=21477451&postcount=18

Did you know the ruling in the Dover, PA case is being applauded all the way over in Japan. Where are all the outraged Japanese creationists I wonder?
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fe20060111rh.htm

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I don't know why the Japanese would be happy with this ruling. The harder fundamentalists work to dumb down the science curriculum, the better off foreign kids will be.

Hydra009 said:

This just in: Pat Robertson declares that California's citizens have abandoned God and have provoked God's wrath.

That never gets old.

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You know, I'm gonna go right out and triple the size of my Earthquake kit.
















Not!

ThePenguinMafia said:

I'll do you a deal. If anybody manages to get together a credible, scientific, peer reviewed and deemed accurate for 150 years idea that includes god together, it'll be put in school.

For the same reason I don't get taught homeopathy and for the same reason physics students aren't being taught astrology, there really is no place for ID alongside evolution.

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Welcome to CF. If you plan on sticking around the C&E board you find that I’m quite out spoken and furthermore don’t advocate for God in the classroom do I think there is a time and place for God in the class room sure. Does that mean I’m going to shove that down into classroom? No especially not until there is significant reform.

One Love

Erock83 said:

Well education is paramount lets make time or make changes to create the time.

One Love

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Logistically, I don't think that's feasible. In high school science classes you only have so much time to cover various scientific topics; and even then, there is no detail. This is why scientists will spend 5,6,7 years getting a PhD in something and even then, they specialize. That's why scientists should be the ones to hash this out.

I also think it's a red herring to go after the science classroom, when the whole issue people are having with evolution is a religious one. The focus needs to shift from the classroom to the churches so people can develop a more confident set of religious beliefs and not feel threatened by science.

Donkeytron said:

I don't know why the Japanese would be happy with this ruling. The harder fundamentalists work to dumb down the science curriculum, the better off foreign kids will be.

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Oddly enough, that article was writing by someone in Ireland.

Pete Harcoff said:

Oddly enough, that article was writing by someone in Ireland.

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JAPAN DOESNT EXIST!!!

MartinM said:

Which cutting edge scientific issues would you like 16 year olds with insufficient scientific knowledge to discuss, and what shall we drop to make room?

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Well if you want the short and sweet answer its throw it all out, and start giving the tools to find out the answers not giving them the answers and hope they figure out how the tool works.

One Love.

I view the cancelation of the creationism class as "good news, bad news." The good news is that the 15 enrolled students will be spared a ration of crationist BS. Half of them are probably feed theat BS at home anyway. The bad news is that we are deprived of a great opportunity to pound another nail into the IDC coffin.

Erock83 said:

Well if you want the short and sweet answer its throw it all out, and start giving the tools to find out the answers not giving them the answers and hope they figure out how the tool works

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Thats a great idea. Instead of teaching the kids geology all you need do is give them a hammer and a chisel and send them out into the world for an hour.

Ed

Pete Harcoff said:

I also think it's a red herring to go after the science classroom, when the whole issue people are having with evolution is a religious one. The focus needs to shift from the classroom to the churches so people can develop a more confident set of religious beliefs and not feel threatened by science.

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It would be a red herring, except the part of my dependency point. Schools have breed people that are dependant on others for answers. E.G. church leaders, teachers, ‘experts’ and so on an so forth. My contention is that if you were teaching people how to think, instead of what to think. This problem would be almost a non-issues, if it was even an issue at all.

One Love.

Edx said:

Thats agreat idea. Instead of teaching the kids geology all you need do is give them a hammer and a chisel and send them out into the world for an hour.

Ed

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Great idea make it happen. Why should field experiments be reserved for college students?

One Love.

Erock83 said:

Great idea make it happen. Why should field experiments be reserved for college students?.

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You said get rid of all the teaching, jsut give them the tools and "hope" they figure out how to use it.

Ed

Dr.GH said:

The bad news is that we are deprived of a great opportunity to pound another nail into the IDC coffin.

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Eh, it wasn't such a great opportunity. The course was blatant YEC, and the DI wouldn't have gone anywhere near it. What we really need is a case where they're prepared to throw in with the defence.