The gods versus God

Oh really? Have you extensively researched Satanism, Buddhism (notice the 'h' in the word ),

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In her defense and my own we are Buddhist iDreamOfBagel. We dont beieve in a God. I have no Idead what you are talking about by the little 'h' thing.

I have a confession to make. I do worship Satan. All other religions are nothing more than a cover-up to worshipping Satan. Sometimes, when I am practicing yoga and such, the words "Satan rules" accidentally creeps out of my mouth. I pretend it doesn't happen, but on certain occasions when I look in the mirror a tall red individual stares back.

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very funny.

Theowne said:

I have a confession to make. I do worship Satan. All other religions are nothing more than a cover-up to worshipping Satan. Sometimes, when I am practicing yoga and such, the words "Satan rules" accidentally creeps out of my mouth. I pretend it doesn't happen, but on certain occasions when I look in the mirror a tall red individual stares back.

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hey that happens to me too! dang it!!

satay

iDreamOfBagel said:

Oh really? Have you extensively researched Satanism, Buddhism (notice the 'h' in the word ), Hinduism, and Wicca? Have you talked on a deep level to any Satanists/Buddhists/Hindus/Wiccans? Heck, have you ever even met a Satanist/Buddhist/Hindu/Wiccan in real life? My point is, how would you know anything about who these relgions worship? You wouldn't. Nobody knows exactly which relgion is right, everyone just assumes that their way is the only true way.

I choose to follow Jesus, but this is my personal path. For others, the right way may be through Krishna or Buddha or Athena or the Spirit Guide. You and I will stand by our path, so let them stand by theirs. Respect them, respect their path. And if you can't respect it, at least learn to deal with it. It'll make the world a better place.

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From a Christian, Biblical perspective, RenewingMyMind is technically correct. There is a Scripture which says this:
Of course, Paul's reference to the "god of this world" is to be understood as a veiled description of Satan, the adversary who accuses humanity of sin before the throne of God. As you can see, the Apostle has said that the Gospel is veiled to those whom God allows to be blinded by the god of this world. Buddhists, Hindus, and Wiccans obviously do not believe in the Gospel, and therefore, they are technically under the influence of Satan.

This does not indicate that they are demon-possessed, that they intentionally offer worship to the devil, or that they are intrinsically more evil than anyone else. It is, rather, an indication that the whole of the Gentile, non-Christian world is cut off from the Gospel of Christ, because they yield to the temptations of the world. In the case of the people that were mentioned, the temptation is false, polytheistic religion.

If you want, you may say that you do not believe in the Bible (there are several other passages which convey the same message as the one that I quoted). But it would not be correct to say that RenewingMyMind has said something that isn't taught in the Bible.

Greetings Friends and hello!!, i read godismyrefuge's post. i hope the Lord God fills cath, with his eternal Love, and compassion. I only hope my dear pagan and nonchristian friends may find the Lord Jesus as she has, may the Lord God bless her and keep her always.

The only thing I find more difficult to believe in than God, is more than one of them.

Rize said:

The only thing I find more difficult to believe in than God, is more than one of them.

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There is not more then one God, just different ideas of God

GodismyRefuge
God is not angry at you. He loves you. We are the ones who decide to go to hell by refusing to relate to Him. Thus we walk away from Life and die.

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A God of infinite understanding, infinite patience and infinite love. Yet it doesnt deal well with rejection. Doesnt sound like the words of infinite power sounds like the words of those seeking it.
Oh no no no no silly it is not an angry God, it loves you. Well, unless ofcourse you dont subscribe to its book or teachings thenit will stew you in a lake of fire for all eternity but thats beside the point...It loves you.
Pardon me sir When I say this but that is a line concocted by man if I ever saw one.
My intention is not to offend you and if I do I will preface this with a heartfelt "I am Sorry" How can anyone with a clear mind and clear understanding of language not spot the blatant, obsurd contradiction in that statement?
I was once watching a friends child and she asked for a cookie. I told her no, it has sugar in it and you havent eaten your lunch yet, you will have to wait till after. "I HATE YOU!" She screamed and ran from the room. I made her lunch a little later then gave her a cookie. "I love you" she told me and hugged me.
Yes, it is like that, join my club, buy my book, perform my rituals and all of my infinite love and understanding are here for you. Reject me and there will be hell to pay. It is almost comical in its overt blackmail. If it wasnt so sad to see so many people backmailed I would be compelled to laugh.
So, I have a question for you sir. Is true love unconditional if God's is not?

NOSELF said:

... Oh no no no no silly it is not an angry God, it loves you. Well, unless ofcourse you dont subscribe to its book or teachings thenit will stew you in a lake of fire for all eternity but thats beside the point...It loves you.

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Actually Christians know God is a God of love. But he sure can get angry sometimes. He is a jealous God and a consuming fire. You know we tend to forget the flipside of the coin, on the otherside of the coin of love, is the coin of judgement. And God does judge, and in my opinion, he judges with nature. For instance,[ as an observation and example (now I don't want to offend anyone living in these parts of the world)] take for instance the tsunami, it devastated Aceh in Indonesia (that was the only province or state that had implemented Sharia Law – a very oppressive regime from a western point of view), and then look at Afghanistan and Pakistan getting hit with earthquakes in the north (again we don't need to spell out what is happening there), and then even look at the good ole USA with the hurricanes. USA thinks of attacking Iran, 'oh no says God', and He turns them inside to look at their own country first. Most people know of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, so God has only one thing left to do and that is to SHOUT at us through nature. Don't you know he rides the whirlwinds: Nahum1: 3 "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord has his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet." Isaiah 66: 15 "For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire."

NOSELF said:

I hope you dont mind me asking you a question but how can you call Buddhism both a philosophy and a religion and claim it has no belief system? Granted its belief system is not comparable to the western religions True the Buddha taught us to question all and take nothing on word even his own but I must disagree with you.

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Allow me, NOSELF, to illustrate what I mean.
I apologise if this thread is both wordy and convoluted, but it's aim is to explain....


The Buddha referred to his teachings simply as Dhamma-vinaya -- "the doctrine and discipline" -- but for centuries people have tried to categorize the teachings in various ways, trying to fit them into the prevailing molds of cultural, philosophical, and religious thought. Buddhism is an ethical system -- a way of life -- that leads to a very specific goal and that possesses some aspects of both religion and philosophy:

It is a philosophy.
Like most philosophies, Buddhism attempts to frame the complexities of human existence in a way that reassures us that there is, in fact, some underlying order to the Universe. In the Four Noble Truths the Buddha crisply summarizes our predicament: there is suffering, it has a cause, it has an end, and there is a way to reach the end. The teachings on kamma provide a thorough and logically self-consistent description of the nature of cause-and-effect. And even the Buddhist view of cosmology, which some may at first find farfetched, is a logical extension of the law of kamma. According to the Dhamma, a deep and unshakable logic pervades the world.

It is not a philosophy.
Unlike most philosophical systems, which rely on speculation and the power of reason to arrive at certain kinds of logical truths, Buddhism relies on the direct observation of one's personal experience and on honing certain skills in order to gain true understanding and wisdom. Idle speculation has no place in Buddhist practice. Although studying in the classroom, reading books, and engaging in spirited debate can play a vital part in developing a cognitive understanding of basic Buddhist concepts, the heart of Buddhism can never be realized this way. The Dhamma is not an abstract system of thought designed to delight the intellect; it is a roadmap to be used, one whose essential purpose is to lead the practitioner to the ultimate goal, nibbana.

It is a religion.
At the heart of each of the world's great religions lies a transcendent ideal around which its doctrinal principles orbit. In Buddhism this truth is nibbana, the hallmark of the cessation of suffering and stress, a truth of utter transcendence that stands in singular distinction from anything we might encounter in our ordinary sensory experience. Nibbana is the sine qua non of Buddhism, the guiding star and ultimate goal towards which all the Buddha's teachings point. Because it aims at such a lofty transcendent ideal, we might fairly call Buddhism a religion.

It is not a religion.
In stark contrast to the world's other major religions, however, Buddhism invokes no divinity, no supreme Creator or supreme Self, no Holy Spirit or omniscient loving God to whom we might appeal for salvation. Instead, Buddhism calls for us to hoist ourselves up by our own bootstraps: to develop the discernment we need to distinguish between those qualities within us that are unwholesome and those that are truly noble and good, and to learn how to nourish the good ones and expunge the bad. This is the path to Buddhism's highest perfection, nibbana. Not even the Buddha can take you to that goal; you alone must do the work necessary to complete the journey:

"Therefore, Ananda, be islands unto yourselves, refuges unto yourselves, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as your island, the Dhamma as your refuge, seeking no other refuge."

Despite its non-theistic nature, however, Buddhist practice does call for a certain kind of faith. NOTICE: The word is FAITH, not BELIEF...... It is not blind faith, an uncritical acceptance of the Buddha's word as transmitted through scripture. Instead it is 'saddha', a confidence born of taking refuge in the Triple Gem; it is a willingness to trust that the Dhamma, when practiced diligently, will lead to the rewards promised by the Buddha. 'Saddha' is a provisional acceptance of the teachings, that is ever subject to critical evaluation during the course of one's practice, and which must be balanced by one's growing powers of discernment. For many Buddhists, this faith is expressed and reinforced through traditional devotional practices, such as bowing before a Buddha statue and reciting passages from the early Pali texts. Despite a superficial resemblance to the rites of many theistic religions, however, these activities are neither prayers nor pleas for salvation directed towards a transcendent Other. They are instead useful and inspiring gestures of humility and respect for the profound nobility and worth of the Triple Gem.

but there is still a belief in the Four Noble Truths, in the refuge of the three jewels, in the noble paths.

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By your own following statement, you cannot refer to The Four Noble Truths, taking Refuge or The Eighfold Path a belief system, by very virtue of the fact that these are subject to question all the time, from anyone wishing to be a practitioner. You may be convinced of their Truth - this is one thing... but to say that they are a belief system is incorrect.

Buddhists do have a belief system, just to the Buddhist, the belief can be found in the doing not in the praying.

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perhaps this is a question of semantics.... The proof of what a Buddhist practises as Truth, can best be demonstrated by how they behave and act... Something often referred to as "Walking the Talk"....
It again, has nothing to do with Belief....


(I have no idea what happened to the text here... I tried typing it all in 'Verdana'....!!)

GodismyRefuge said:

Yes, unbelievers are going to hell..... What is your understanding of Hell?

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Many people through no fault of their own endure Hell every day here on earth... If they don't believe in God, more of the same? I don't think so.... I think maybe some of your notions may need reviewing....

Why, what is your understanding of Hell?

iDreamOfBagel said:

Oh really? Have you extensively researched Satanism, Buddhism (notice the 'h' in the word ), Hinduism, and Wicca? Have you talked on a deep level to any Satanists/Buddhists/Hindus/Wiccans? Heck, have you ever even met a Satanist/Buddhist/Hindu/Wiccan in real life? My point is, how would you know anything about who these relgions worship? You wouldn't. Nobody knows exactly which relgion is right, everyone just assumes that their way is the only true way.

I choose to follow Jesus, but this is my personal path. For others, the right way may be through Krishna or Buddha or Athena or the Spirit Guide. You and I will stand by our path, so let them stand by theirs. Respect them, respect their path. And if you can't respect it, at least learn to deal with it. It'll make the world a better place.

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IF you choose to follow Jesus and then are going to sit back and say its ok for others to believe in false religions that are under the control of the devil then you are not holding to your responsibility as a Christian. You are conforming to their ways and saying you respect them for believing in the devil. You are not doing the morally correct thing but are saying I believe in Jesus and follow him but I also believe that its ok for someone to to believe in the devil. You are not bearing good witness as a Christian.

If you don't know that your path is the right way then you obviously don't know your God and that is something to work on.

What does the candle mean?

What is the other church mean?

What is the other churches doctrine?

I can live with others who don't know Christ but I am not going to tell them what they want to hear but rather tell them what they need to hear and that is that Jesus loves them and wants to offer them eternal life.

They are all under the control of satan and are going to get upset because I am shining the light into their darkness.

They can hate me and be angry and say I am ignorant and that is fine with me for every post plants a seed and gives me something to pray about. I may not lead them to salvation and see the harvest but I am doing my part and honoring Christ.

I am not here to play watered down Christian but to preach the gospel.

Very interesting Alexandra, I dont care if it is wordy as long as i learn.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me.
Thankyou maam

GodismyRefuge said:

Yes, unbelievers are going to hell. Now, my question addressed your understanding and perspective of this issue. You stated that it has something to do with 'appeasing' God's anger. God is not angry at you. He loves you. We are the ones who decide to go to hell by refusing to relate to Him. Thus we walk away from Life and die. What is your understanding of Hell?

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I may not have the best understanding of hell, but the bible makes the "lake of fire" aspect pretty clear.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power...

14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

(True, that last one is referring specifically to those who worship "the beast," but I've so often heard it argued that anyone who doesn't worship Jesus is, in fact, worshipping Satan.

Also, notice in the last two that the sufferers in hell are suffering in God's presence. So much for the idea that hell is simply the torment of being separated from God.)

And finally...

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You say God loves me. Real love doesn't involve torturing somebody forever and ever if they don't love you back. Especially if the only reason they don't love you back is because you've given them no real evidence that you even exist.

GodismyRefuge said:

Indeed, many do 'endure hell' every day on earth as a result of mankind sinning against one another. And, yes, if they do not accept the provisions of God, they will continue to be alone on their own for eternity. The worst part, I can only imagine, is facing eternity without the opportunity to know Him, when He was so readily available...............

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It's not only due to Man's sinning against one another that some experience such misery... It is often due to personal circumstance, like a debilitating disease, or a handicap....nobody's 'fault' as such.

And, I would imagine the worst part of facing eternity without the opportunity to know him because he's not there at all, would be worse.....

Well.... I began to.... But I started losing the will to live.....

Namaste renewing my mind,

thank you for the post.

RenewingMyMind said:

Satanism and Buddism and Hinduism and wiccan are all worshipping the same ' god '. Notice the little ' g '. satan is the god of this world and the god of all religions other then Christianity.

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whilst it may be so that Satanism and Sanatana Dharma are worshipping Satan. not of course, that i believe this to be true... in fact, a cursory look at Sanatana Dharma should make this plainly evident.. it is not correct to say that Buddhists are engaged in the same behavior.

if, for no other reason, than we do not worship any being, god, God or otherwise.

No Jesus = No heaven.

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no Buddha = no Liberation

metta,

~v