Boundaries - question!

Anyone read the book, Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud -- or dealt with boundary issues? The book's really good, especially for people who didn't grow up with healthy boundaries with other people.

The only thing is, as I'm learning about boundaries, I'm going through this phase where I feel very ... cheated. Is this normal?? Does anyone know? I'm feeling like anytime anyone does something that affects me now, they're *taking* something from me.

For example, I had to think very hard when my ministry team leader asked me to substitute for a person who suddenly couldn't make it to do ministry this week.

I used to be very flexible (too flexible) and always thought of other people's needs. I was without boundaries. But lately I've been feeling angry when someone asks more than just a little from me -- or when I think a person *might* be crossing the line with me. I feel like, "Why do I have to be the one to accommodate other people? Who is accommodating me?"

When someone goes from having poor boundaries to having healthy ones, is it normal to go through this phase where I'm basically overreacting to everything? And if this is a phase, when will it end???

I can understand this..i believe your just giving up your own way on somethings just so you can help others and there's nothing wrong with that.Never get tierd of giving and doing good,even though you may suffer.God sees your good deeds and that pleases him.

Jenster said:

Anyone read the book, Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud -- or dealt with boundary issues? The book's really good, especially for people who didn't grow up with healthy boundaries with other people.

The only thing is, as I'm learning about boundaries, I'm going through this phase where I feel very ... cheated. Is this normal?? Does anyone know? I'm feeling like anytime anyone does something that affects me now, they're *taking* something from me.

For example, I had to think very hard when my ministry team leader asked me to substitute for a person who suddenly couldn't make it to do ministry this week.

I used to be very flexible (too flexible) and always thought of other people's needs. I was without boundaries. But lately I've been feeling angry when someone asks more than just a little from me -- or when I think a person *might* be crossing the line with me. I feel like, "Why do I have to be the one to accommodate other people? Who is accommodating me?"

When someone goes from having poor boundaries to having healthy ones, is it normal to go through this phase where I'm basically overreacting to everything? And if this is a phase, when will it end???

Click to expand...

I have the book you mention, and I have to say that what you feel is normal.

Before you did not give it a thought every time someone asked you to do something, esp on short notice. Now that you are aware of this, sometimes it's easy to overreact a bit as your "radar" is up. As you continue to study about boundaries(the bible is full of them as you've seen in the book, all the scriptural verses) it will help you sort out your motives for giving, so you can give more feely as a result. We have to remember God looks on the heart, not only our outward motions.

I have felt like you do now, " well who IS accomodating me?" God will take care of that one. Our responsiblity is to give in a healthy way. The key word to look for in any giving situation is HABITUAL. Are you the one that is ALWAYS giving? Are people always/frequently saying they can count on you to be available? God wants our whole person to be healthy. He's already taken care of the spiritual blessings we can claim. If you give and feel resentment rather than cheefully, I'd do a personal inventory of that.


If you remember reading in the book, having boundaries prevent your treasures from being taken at the "wrong time", when you can't give, or for some reason don't want to at at that time.
Jan

lol


This reminds me of something my wife told me yesterday.

Several years ago her brother moved to live with us. He was young and a high school drop out. One of the conditions of him being able to move with us was that he was going to have to get a job. He got a job at Wendy's, they were going to start him off at double minimum wage, not bad i thought, for his 1st payroll job.

The question comes in, why did he move? Dropping out of high school is a bad move. Apparently he got involved with the wrong crowd. He was hanging out with what he calls gang bangers. Anyrate, he kept getting into trouble and needed to get out of town. He needed to get away from the crowd he was hanging around and meet new people.

My wife tells me a story about a conversation they had on his 2nd day on the job. She said he was complaining because they wanted him to flip burgers! lol Can you imagine! I would of run him off right then and there. He complained about the manager telling him to take out the trash. lol

Maybe he doesn't understand the concept of work? Everyone has boundaries that should be respected, but when you apply for a job, and are blessed to receive the job, and then complain about working.... well... there is definately something wrong with you.

My wife and I talked about this yesterday evening. He wanted to move back with us again. I said no way. He lived with us about 5 years ago and has moved with every relative on my wifes family side since. He can't keep a job and is still wanting to go and hang out with troublemakers. My wife also mentioned to me that he went through 3 cars last year! 3 CARS! heh, i don't think so. I will pray for him and hope for the best, but he has that free will thing a bit out of his control.
Do unto others as you will have them do unto you.

I have also read this book...... I think possibly, that you are going through the normal stages of taking yourself back, and you're not quite sure how to deal with it yet. Because of the book, you are wondering what the motives are of the people who ask you to do things.... Why not ask questions? The next time someone asks you to do something even "as a favor" maybe tell them what's going on in your life and that you would like ask them a couple of questions so that you feel comfortable about your decision.

Jan had some really good advice.....

Its best to be selfless and think of others, God asks us to love and help other people. If you helped that other person out by being a substitute did you cross any boundries? Yes, you crossed the boundry called 'selfishness' , you see living for yourself is a sin.

You know there's a lot of explanation in this http://www.near-death.com/rosenblit.html person near death experience which will help you to orientate yourself closer towards God. I suggest you read this exellent story.

Love Means Sacrifice, Not Selfishness


No matter how long you may live, you'll never stop learning. Every minute of every day brings us new opportunities to learn something we've never known before. As long as we're open to receive, God will continue to teach us every day.

I'm still learning, and I know I always will be. What God teaches me every day about love continues to change my life. I have come to the place in my life where I can honestly say, "Lord, eliminate everything in my life that is holding me back. Please, Lord, take away anything that is keeping me from walking in love and finding true fulfillment in my life." In other words, "Lord, reduce me to love (bring me to a state or condition of walking in love completely)!"

One of the most important facets I've learned about love is unselfishness, which is characterized in the Bible as the willingness to sacrifice one's own wishes for those of others. I've learned that true love will always adapt and adjust to the needs and desires of other people.

It's impossible for people who have truly been reduced to love to be selfish. God has taught them how to be totally adaptable and adjustable to others. Selfish people, on the other hand, have hard hearts. It's very difficult for selfish people to learn anything—especially if it involves self-sacrifice. They expect everyone else to adjust to them and their needs. They simply don't know how to adjust to others without becoming angry or upset.

Learning to adapt and adjust myself to the needs and desires of others was very difficult for me. To be honest, I just wanted my way, and I got upset when I didn't get it. I was selfish! I wanted what I wanted, when I wanted it! I couldn't stand having to wait on someone else, or bending my own wishes to accommodate someone else's timetable.

But God began to soften my heart, and gradually, I learned to see the needs of others. Then God gave me compassion—the heartfelt desire to meet the needs of others first, before my own.

Slowly, I became committed to walking in love. I learned to adapt my own needs and desires in order to help meet the needs of others. I learned how to show love in different ways to different people. Did you know that not all people need the same thing from us? One of our children, for example, may need more of our personal time than the others. One of our friends may need more encouragement on a regular basis than another.

For example, my aunt needs me, my parents need me, my brother needs me, my husband needs me, each of my four children needs me, my five grandchildren need me, my employees need me, my friends need me—and they all need me in different ways.

Do I ever feel too needed? Of course! All of us feel overwhelmed from time to time. But I remind myself that God gives me grace for whatever He places in my life, and I'm fortunate to be loved and needed by so many.

Do I ever get weary of always trying to be available to meet the needs of others? Yes! But I remind myself of all the years I lived in selfishness and how unhappy I was. Now I'm just making up for lost time! When I consider this, it doesn't take long for me to adjust my attitude. After all, just telling people "I love you" is not enough. We need to go beyond the words and actually do something to help meet their needs. I wanted him to make all the adjustments.

I never acknowledged the many ways in which adjusted to my needs. I never saw what he did—only what he didn't do...and it was ruining our relationship. I'm glad now that I have learned to adapt and adjust. It was a little hard on me for a while, but it saved our marriage.

Once you've been reduced to love, you'll have no trouble establishing and maintaining good, healthy relationships with others. Your primary goal in life will be to put the wishes of others before your own. You will learn that true love is all about sacrifice. Selfishness will be a thing of the past.

Apples of Gold said:

I have also read this book...... I think possibly, that you are going through the normal stages of taking yourself back, and you're not quite sure how to deal with it yet. Because of the book, you are wondering what the motives are of the people who ask you to do things.... Why not ask questions? The next time someone asks you to do something even "as a favor" maybe tell them what's going on in your life and that you would like ask them a couple of questions so that you feel comfortable about your decision.

Jan had some really good advice.....

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I think that is a good phrase, Apples, about taking yourself back and not knowing how you really think about it. That is healthy living. Another thing is ask God if you should do this or that? And the word no is a good word from time to time. You don't owe everyone an explanation necessarily. I learned that in a codependent group I'm part of; saying no does not necessarily generate an apology. Ask God and include Him in all your dealings with people.

Jan

janny108 said:

I think that is a good phrase, Apples, about taking yourself back and not knowing how you really think about it. That is healthy living. Another thing is ask God if you should do this or that? And the word no is a good word from time to time. You don't owe everyone an explanation necessarily. I learned that in a codependent group I'm part of; saying no does not necessarily generate an apology. Ask God and include Him in all your dealings with people.

Jan

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OOPs sorry, I pressed submit too soon. About unnecessary apologizing when you can't or don't feel you want to do something it sort of communicates guilt to the other person doing the asking.
Jan

Anyone read the book, Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud -- or dealt with boundary issues? The book's really good, especially for people who didn't grow up with healthy boundaries with other people.

The only thing is, as I'm learning about boundaries, I'm going through this phase where I feel very ... cheated. Is this normal?? Does anyone know? I'm feeling like anytime anyone does something that affects me now, they're *taking* something from me.

For example, I had to think very hard when my ministry team leader asked me to substitute for a person who suddenly couldn't make it to do ministry this week.

I used to be very flexible (too flexible) and always thought of other people's needs. I was without boundaries. But lately I've been feeling angry when someone asks more than just a little from me -- or when I think a person *might* be crossing the line with me. I feel like, "Why do I have to be the one to accommodate other people? Who is accommodating me?"

When someone goes from having poor boundaries to having healthy ones, is it normal to go through this phase where I'm basically overreacting to everything? And if this is a phase, when will it end???

Click to expand...

Posts like this one sadden me. ........"Boundries" is the latest garbage pychobabble trend that is making alot of people/pseudo-authors/nightime T.V. hosts rich. Not that thiers anything wrong with "HEALTHY" boundries, i.e. not accepting abuse, cruelty, etc. but the fact is a persons boundries are determined by thier fears, tight boundries = many fears, loose boundries = few fears....The only book about boundries you ever need to read is call "proverbs"

Anti Existance said:

Its best to be selfless and think of others, God asks us to love and help other people. If you helped that other person out by being a substitute did you cross any boundries? Yes, you crossed the boundry called 'selfishness' , you see living for yourself is a sin.

You know there's a lot of explanation in this http://www.near-death.com/rosenblit.html person near death experience which will help you to orientate yourself closer towards God. I suggest you read this exellent story.

Click to expand...

I think there is always a danger of going to extremes with anything good. Otherwise there would not be Christian psychologists writing books about being in godly relationships some of which require "some " degree of boundary setting. Boundaries are not evil. So many people lose themselves in other people that they think that is what defines them. But boundaries are healthy when you know who YOU are in Christ and what realistically you are willing to do for someone else. That is much healthier giving.
Jan

huk said:

Posts like this one sadden me. ........"Boundries" is the latest garbage pychobabble trend that is making alot of people/pseudo-authors/nightime T.V. hosts rich. Not that thiers anything wrong with "HEALTHY" boundries, i.e. not accepting abuse, cruelty, etc. but the fact is a persons boundries are determined by thier fears, tight boundries = many fears, loose boundries = few fears....The only book about boundries you ever need to read is call "proverbs"

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Jester, Huk has a point there is a difference between healthy boundries ,and i know the feeling when you read a book it sounds all so good, but when you try to use it into practise you have to realise that this person who wrote it is only human. This author asks us to set boundries that defend our selfish positions as known as (don't help another because its a waste of YOUR time ,therefore set a boundry that disables you from helping other people) He is selfish therefore he considers helping other people as evil as wrong as something to cast out of your life.

Altought thats a bit premature to say because i haven't read the book, fully realise however that what GOD wants from you is totally different then what humans want from you. As an example i know this story from a Professor who had a near death experience who's life was reviewed by God ,here's a piece from his story.http://www.near-death.com/experiences/storm02.html

"My life was shown in a way that I had never thought of before. All of the things that I had worked to achieve, the recognition that I had worked for, in elementary school, in high school, in college, and in my career, they meant nothing in this setting."

And I could sense all those things they were indifferent to. They didn’t, for example, look down on my high school shot-put record. They just didn’t feel anything towards it, nor towards other things which I had taken so much pride in.
What they responded to was how I had interacted with other people. That was the long and short of it. Unfortunately, most of my interactions with other people didn’t measure up with how I should have interacted, which was in a loving way.

Whenever I did react during my life in a loving way they rejoiced.

Most of the time I found that my interactions with other people had been manipulative. During my professional career, for example, I saw myself sitting in my office, playing the college professor, while a student came to me with a personal problem. I sat there looking compassionate, and patient, and loving, while inside I was bored to death. I would check my watch under my desk as I anxiously waited for the student to finish.

I got to go through all those kinds of experiences in the company of these magnificent beings.

When I was a teenager my father’s career put him into a high-stress, twelve-hour-a-day job. Out of my resentment because of his neglect of me, when he came home from work, I would be cold and indifferent toward him. This made him angry, and it gave me further excuse to feel hatred toward him. He and I fought, and my mother would get upset.

Most of my life I had felt that my father was the villain and I was the victim. When we reviewed my life I got to see how I had precipitated so much of that, myself. Instead of greeting him happily at the end of a day, I was continually putting thorns in him – in order to justify my hurt.

I got to see when my sister had a bad night one night, how I went into her bedroom and put my arms around her. Not saying anything, I just lay there with my arms around her. As it turned out that experience was one of the biggest triumphs of my life."


So if even the people who had near-death experience come back to tell us that Jesus was right and that its our loving intereaction with other people that is the most important in life, how then can we set a boundry for ourselves to commit us to God?

Jenster said:

Anyone read the book, Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud -- or dealt with boundary issues? The book's really good, especially for people who didn't grow up with healthy boundaries with other people.

The only thing is, as I'm learning about boundaries, I'm going through this phase where I feel very ... cheated. Is this normal?? Does anyone know? I'm feeling like anytime anyone does something that affects me now, they're *taking* something from me.

For example, I had to think very hard when my ministry team leader asked me to substitute for a person who suddenly couldn't make it to do ministry this week.

I used to be very flexible (too flexible) and always thought of other people's needs. I was without boundaries. But lately I've been feeling angry when someone asks more than just a little from me -- or when I think a person *might* be crossing the line with me. I feel like, "Why do I have to be the one to accommodate other people? Who is accommodating me?"

When someone goes from having poor boundaries to having healthy ones, is it normal to go through this phase where I'm basically overreacting to everything? And if this is a phase, when will it end???

Click to expand...

I think this sounds normal. I don't know you at all, but I think you'll find your groove in regards to boundaries. Jesus is the only one who is able to fine tune our hearts. A well intended book may be useful to one person yet utterly useless to the next. Boundaries allow you to maximixe your efforts where you are gifted and effective by minimizing your involvement in areas that you don't fit into. Granted, occasionally filling in a gap is necessary.

So you can assert your boundaries unapologetically. You have to do this or you will become involved in too many things, many of which are ministries you were never meant to serve. This creates burnout and irritability and a feeling of exhaustion whenever you think you are going to be asked to do something else.

Thanks to all for your encouragement (or intended encouragement) and advice. Quite a diversity of opinions within the body of Christ, but thankfully we are all united in our faith in the Savior.

In defense of Townsend and Cloud, I haven't read anything in the book that appears to be advocating a selfish existence. As Janny said, boundaries in and of themselves are not evil. I'd urge anyone who has not read the book to refrain from attributing motives or philosophies to it that the authors don't advocate.

We can all agree that we are after healthy boundaries, and I appreciate Mr. Cheese's take on what that means:

Mr.Cheese said:

Boundaries allow you to maximixe your efforts where you are gifted and effective by minimizing your involvement in areas that you don't fit into. Granted, occasionally filling in a gap is necessary.

So you can assert your boundaries unapologetically. You have to do this or you will become involved in too many things, many of which are ministries you were never meant to serve. This creates burnout and irritability and a feeling of exhaustion whenever you think you are going to be asked to do something else.

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Though I am still in the midst of figuring out what healthy boundaries look and feel like in practice, not just theory, I do believe this: Good boundaries allow people to make wise decisions about how to use their time, money, talents, skills, etc. -- both for God's glory and also to take care of ourselves.

Thanks again for the interesting discussion.

Mr.Cheese said:

I think this sounds normal. I don't know you at all, but I think you'll find your groove in regards to boundaries. Jesus is the only one who is able to fine tune our hearts. A well intended book may be useful to one person yet utterly useless to the next. Boundaries allow you to maximixe your efforts where you are gifted and effective by minimizing your involvement in areas that you don't fit into. Granted, occasionally filling in a gap is necessary.

So you can assert your boundaries unapologetically. You have to do this or you will become involved in too many things, many of which are ministries you were never meant to serve. This creates burnout and irritability and a feeling of exhaustion whenever you think you are going to be asked to do something else.

Click to expand...

You can look up Boundaries on the internet. God is the author of Boundaries, there are things He will do, and there are things He will not do. It's all throughout the bible.
A lot of people are afraid to set boundaries(limits not walls) because they are probably sensitive to feeling guilty or their self worth is in question.
God will help us do whatever we need to do to stay healthy and give for the right reasons.
Jan

janny108 said:

You can look up Boundaries on the internet. God is the author of Boundaries, there are things He will do, and there are things He will not do. It's all throughout the bible.
A lot of people are afraid to set boundaries(limits not walls) because they are probably sensitive to feeling guilty or their self worth is in question.
God will help us do whatever we need to do to stay healthy and give for the right reasons.
Jan

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Something I just thought of is people can give themself selflessly but never get around to working on themselves. Just a thought. This is in my 12 Step recovery for codependency; to take a fearless inventory of myself.
Jan
Jan