Does todays Isreal have the backing of god and bible prophesy as a sign of the end??

celtic_crusader · Jun 10, 2002

In short, I am of the strong opinion that Israel rightfully owns the land regardless of bible beliefs. They immigrated into ottoman Palestine and then continued to immigrate under British Palestine until the UN separated Palestine into two states because Britain pulled out of Palestine and there was supposed to be two states, one for Israel and one for Palestine. The Jews accepted the UN decision but the Palestinians and Arabs rejected it and refused to recognize Isreali nationhood..
All Arab nations surrounding Israel attacked and lost and ever since the Arab nations have continued to refuse to recognize Israel as a legitimate state which causes more war in 67 and 73 that causes Palestinians to loose even more land.

Since America came into it, there has been several peace deals were the PLO and they have been made to recognize the Israeli nation in return for there own state and established govt.
Israel has generally been willing to withdraw from occupied territories on the ashorance that they will have peace and security. The problem is that there is no peace and security. The peace talks are generally derailed by Arab groups that wont even recognize the Israeli nation, so there committing terrorist acts against Israel and there occupied territories to derail talks.

To me it is the Jews that are fighting for their homeland not the Palestinians. From the beginning, this was about the Arab nations recognizing the land given to Israel by the UN in 47. The Arabs wouldnt recognize the Jews and the Jew kept becoming more prominent in the whole area until they dominated it. Know the tide has turned and it is the Palestinians that want their own state. The fact is that Israel is willing to give them that if they can offer peace and security in return but that is impossible for the Arabs at the moment.

Also realize that some of the land that they are being asked to back out of is stronghold area that was used by Syria to attack Jewish settlements. There is no way in the world the Jews will give up the golden heights occupied territories that they won of Syria in the 67 war with out positive assurances of peace and security for Israel and that is impossible because most Arab nations still dont recognize Israel as a Nation and neither do Palestinian resistance groups. The PLO camouflages themselves to get what they can out of the Americans but as soon as the Iraq war started and the PLO saw a chance of being liberated and they sided with sadam to stire the Arabs up against the USA and Isreal..

Now that I have shared my political view of Israelis innocence in what is happening there I will show scripture to show why I also believe that God is behind Israel return.

I will show a couple of scriptures that say god will bring the Jews back into Israel in the end times as an ensign. I will also show you were Paul says that Israel is only blinded in part but in the end they will all be saved.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes

Isaiah 11
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

This is talking about an ensign of god delivering Israel back to there homeland again the second time after the root of Jessie which was Jesus (Jessie is Davids father and that is the root of Jesus line) so this couldnt have been referring to the Babylonian captivity.

Ephraim is a tribe of Israel that was a warlike tribe on the borders of Judea. This is saying that the problems between Ephraim (Israel) and Judah will cease and they will work as one.

Philistines are the Palestinians and Syrians and the west is Britain and America. The east is Russia and the Arab states.

Isreal gained the land back on the back of the Palastinians while working with the west.

Edom & Moab are Jordan today.

Ammon was the national god of Egypt so this is referring to Egypt being persuaded to cross over from eastern thinking to western thinking because of Isreal.

Long again but I thaught this was very interesting

Celti Crusader.

Yauming · Jun 10, 2002

Why do you think that Russia will support the Muslim nations when it already has enough problem from Muslim seperatists?

Russia is also a oil producing competitor to the Muslim nations. It will gladly see them defeated by Israel so that it can sell its products to Europe and America.

celtic_crusader · Jun 10, 2002

Hi Yauming,
I been playing heaps of shogun and love the game. It is quickly becoming my faviroute war game. (just incase you havn`t realised , I am BULWARK.)

Now , about the russians backing the Arabs.

Yauming , the russians have backed the Arabs against Isreal in every single war fought in Isreal during the cold war.

Infact , it was very embaressing for Russia to watch the Arabs loose while using Russian weopans.

The Russians have always backed the Arabs against Isreal.

A bit of trivia is that the first jews to migrate back to Isreal were russian jews.

Celtic.

Mandy · Jun 10, 2002

I agree. Good posts.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 11, 2002

Hi celtic,
I believe that God is the force behind bringing the Lost tribes back to the land that He scattered them from. I think you are right on in most of your observations. Perhaps Israel, the two northern tribes are already in place. But I believe that there is still ten tribes still scattered, (Judah).

I have talked to some American Jews, in fact one is on my bowling team. He insists that he will never have any desire to go back to the promised land. He has never seen it personally and doesn't even want to. He says, "I'm an American". He loves America, but I believe that will change very quickly after the rapture. We have millions of Jews in America. These twelve tribes were scattered all over the face of the earth. Most are still scattered, but God said He would bring them all back. What event could force them to go back?? The rapture of course. That is a no brainer. When the world economy collapses, Israel will start to be very attractive to the Jews, and especially after they will appear to have a guaranteed peace deal worked out.

The land of Israel that we see today is not the same Israel that God gave them. They only occupy a small piece of the promised land. God also promised that never again would the Jews be forced out of that land after He gathers them back into their land. They are there to stay, but they are also blinded spiritually. But I believe after the abomination that causes desolation, Israel will finally mourn for and recognize the one that they pierced 2000 years before was their true Messiah, and they will be saved. But it will not be pretty by any means. In the tribulation, and after the tribulation saints get martyred, the whole entire world will hate the Jews and they will bring their armies to the war of all wars, Armageddon.

Yauming · Jun 11, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader
Hi Yauming,
Yauming , the russians have backed the Arabs against Isreal in every single war fought in Isreal during the cold war. Infact , it was very embaressing for Russia to watch the Arabs loose while using Russian weopans.Celtic.

Hello Bulwark/Celtic/etc..,

When you play Shogun remember to try to build up specific counterspy centers to counter the enemy forces. The shinobeis are really good for maintaining a loyal population and deter rebel uprisings - the more the better - and they don't cost anything to maintain unlike a garrison army.

Back to original point....

Yes, I know that the Russians have been supporting the Arabs in the last 40 years but only because it was part of their Cold War strategy. The USA, in the same way, also supported the Afganistan "terrorist/freedom fighters" in their war against the Soviet Union.

But in the big historical picture, going back to past history, the Russians have never been friends with the Arabs.

Moreover, the Russians supported the Arabs because they had the cash to blow on Russian made conventional weapons. But you realize that, during that period, the Russian government has never sold a nuclear weapon or technology to the Arabs. How do we know? If the Arabs had got hold of a nuclear device in the 1950s -1970s, there is no doubt they would have used it to blow up Israel.

Currently the situation has changed. The Russian government is now fearful of the Muslim nations because they have been actively supporting Islamic seperatist movements in Russian territory. If the European Muslim terrorists get hold of a nuclear bomb - they are just likely to blow up Moscow for its crimes in Afganistan and Chetyna etc...

celtic_crusader · Jun 12, 2002

Perhaps Israel, the two northern tribes are already in place. But I believe that there is still ten tribes still scattered, (Judah).

THUNDER,
I`m not exactly shore what you mean hear??

From my knowledge the lost tribes are Isreal and that was 10 tribes but the tribe of Judah and benjamin were seperated into Judea as Jews in Davids and Solomans reign around 1000 BC

Isreal and it`s 10 tribes have been basicly extinct after spreading them into the world in 722 BC by when the Asyrian empire destroyed them , thats why there called "lost" but the Jews survived until Judea was taken by babylon in around 580 BC if I remember correctly.

After Babylon the Jews established Judea but it was anexed as a roman state in 63 BC by Pompay.

there was a roman decree that went out and it expelled all Jews from Judea and the surounding areas (Galalee and samaria) in 135 AD after destroying Jeruselum in 70 AD.

I think today , the Jews that are establishing Isreal are from the tribes of Judea and Benjamin.

it is the lost tribes of isreal that the mormons claim to be isn`t it??? the lost tribes of Isreal aren`t coming back into Isreal because they are extinct as a nation arn`t they???

another little history lesson THUNDER ,

I just didn`t quite understand what you ment hear bro.

I tell you though , you give an interesting perspective on what could be posable future events although I may address that after a bit of thaught.
You know me thunder , the history is easy but this future stuff is sketchy at best.

Celtic.

celtic_crusader · Jun 12, 2002

When you play Shogun remember to try to build up specific counterspy centers to counter the enemy forces. The shinobeis are really good for maintaining a loyal population and deter rebel uprisings - the more the better - and they don't cost anything to maintain unlike a garrison army.

OK cool , I understand what you mean.

there is a little problem I am having. I can`t get my Daimo
to produce offspring after a couple of automatic hiars but the biggest problem is that my last daimo dies off , from illness and that ends the game.

Is there a way I can stop him dieing from illness???? I can handle loosing if my daimo gets killed in battle but to die of sickness while dominating the map is frustrating. It makes me think , "poor Alexandar"

.

Currently the situation has changed. The Russian government is now fearful of the Muslim nations because they have been actively supporting Islamic seperatist movements in Russian territory. If the European Muslim terrorists get hold of a nuclear bomb - they are just likely to blow up Moscow for its crimes in Afganistan and Chetyna etc...

Yea , I see what you mean hear Yauming. I agree with you hear.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 12, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader

THUNDER,
I`m not exactly shore what you mean hear??

I think today , the Jews that are establishing Isreal are from the tribes of Judea and Benjamin.

it is the lost tribes of isreal that the mormons claim to be isn`t it??? the lost tribes of Isreal aren`t coming back into Isreal because they are extinct as a nation arn`t they???

another little history lesson THUNDER ,

I just didn`t quite understand what you ment hear bro.

I tell you though , you give an interesting perspective on what could be posable future events although I may address that after a bit of thaught.
You know me thunder , the history is easy but this future stuff is sketchy at best.

Celtic.

Hi celtic,
This is a subject that is not talked about very much and little is known. But I believe every single prophecy will be fulfilled. I want you to check out this scripture from another prophecy.

Ezekiel 37: 19-23 - say to them, "This is what the sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph--which is in Ephraim's hand--and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah's stick, making them a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand. (20) Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on (21) and say to them, "this is what the sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. (22) I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one King over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. (23) They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people and I will be there God."

I would read this entire chapter. No one knows exactly how God is going to accomplish this, but His word promises that He will do it. I don't just believe He will do it, I know He will. This scripture is not just talking about bringing a few Jews back from Russia and a couple other nations. He will gather them from the entire world. For this to happen, little tiny Israel must expand, otherwise she won't be able to hold them all. The Promised Land that God gave to them was much bigger than the tiny bit of land they now possess. Israel will have to expand in all directions to be what she once was, and will be again. Iraq will have to give back what she stole, so will Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria and most definately the Palestinians. Moab was Saudi Arabia and Ammon was in Jordan.

The little bit of land that Israel has will not be enough for all the Jews that will be re-gathered. It would probably be safe to say that we have more Jews in America than the entire nation of Israel has now. I believe the rapture will have much to do with this prophecy. Remember about two months ago, when Colombia's economy collaped?? Many Jews left there and headed for either Israel or America. I can imagine when the world economy collapses after the rapture all the Jews will want to go back home to the Promised Land. The land will be flowing with milk and honey. The land will be able to feed them all.

God's word says it, so that settles it. It will be done. Also, God will seal 12,000 from every tribe. These 144,000 sealed Jews will be used by the Lord in the tribulation. We may not know who is from which tribe, but you can know that God knows. He scattered the sheep and He has promised to gather them back to their land. We don't know, but God knows everything, even the number of hairs on your head!!

You just gotta believe. You gotta have faith. :clap:

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 12, 2002

Oh I forgot to mention about the Mormons. No big loss. I believe they are a cult. Very deceived.

celtic_crusader · Jun 12, 2002

Hey THUNDER,
There is a couple of thing I would like to put to you on this post.

First just to correct something that you incorrectly corrected me on

Moab was Saudi Arabia and Amman was in Jordan.

From what I learned, Moab is Jordan and Ammon is the main god of Egypt.

Hear is a couple of cuts from the encara encyclopedia.
Moab, ancient country on the hill plateau east of the Dead Sea, in what is now Jordan.

And

Ammon (Egyptian, hidden), ancient Egyptian deity, originally a local Theban god of reproductive forces, represented as a ram. Amon, his wife, Mut (Egyptian, the mother), and his son, the moon god Khon (Egyptian, to traverse the sky), formed the divine triad of Thebes. Later Amon was identified with the sun god Ra

So, as you can see, this is why I said Moab was Jordan and Ammon was Egypt.
Although I do agree that Israel will gain even more land again and the Palestinians will either live under Israel territories or leave as refugees.

Either way, I agree, they are there to stay forever as you have said. The land area that they will have hasnt even started yet.

The funny thing is that it seems to be the Arab nations that are loosing the land while leaving it behind as there armies retreat from Israel and Israel are left the land by pushing back Arab armie build ups so If the Arabs stop attacking they might just be able to keep Israel at bay but that is impossible because there is envy in there hearts toward Israel and it isnt because of the things Israel have done to them because there hostility toward Israel has been there for longer than 100 yrs, or should I say, 3000 yrs.

Thanks for those Ezekiel 37: 19-23 scriptures, I hadnt read them in the context you put them and when I did it was bazaar that this seems to be exactly what has been taking place over the last 100 yrs and it is exciting to see scripture like this that I hadnt noticed yet.

The other thing is the lost tribe of Israel.

THUNDER; tell me how we can come up with 144,000 Hebrews from 12 different tribes, 12000 off each tribe when there are 10 tribes that no longer exist????

They cant just reappear and return to Israel because they wouldnt really be from these tribes because these tribes have been extinct for 2725 yrs. That is no short time, they are defiantly none existent.
If any did survive, it would have been when the Jews came out of Babylon and the Israelites migrated back as well from other nations.

To me , the Jews are an ensign of Israel and considering the land today is called Israel and not Judea means to me that they are under one nation as these prophesies said they would be. I am shore there is more to come but you again seem to be putting the whole thing in the future when we are in the middle of these fulfillments of prophesy today.

This Idea you have of the 144,000, well, I dont claim to be a full quid on revelations or anything and I dont think anyone is, but I tend to see this 144,000 figure as a majorly symbolic number.

Did you notice that 12 pops up all through the bible. I know you have. Well, also remember that 144,000 is a multiple of 12 and so is 12,000.

I could go on but do you see were I am going hear THUNDER.

Lastly, I dont think we need a rapture to bring economic collapse, that will happen in its own course as it always has in the past. It only took the terrorist attacks on the 11 sep to almost derail the economy of the world so a rapture is a bit extreme to me for an economic collapse

, although I do see your prediction that it will be financial collapse that will bring more of them back to Israel or it could be that the Arabs back off and will ashore peace that could also cause the migration to grow.

Either way, they are there to stay at gods say, in my opinion.
Celtic.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 13, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader
Hey THUNDER,
There is a couple of thing I would like to put to you on this post.

First just to correct something that you incorrectly corrected me on

From what I learned, Moab is Jordan and Ammon is the main god of Egypt.

Hear is a couple of cuts from the encara encyclopedia.
Moab, ancient country on the hill plateau east of the Dead Sea, in what is now Jordan.

And

Ammon (Egyptian, hidden), ancient Egyptian deity, originally a local Theban god of reproductive forces, represented as a ram. Amon, his wife, Mut (Egyptian, the mother), and his son, the moon god Khon (Egyptian, to traverse the sky), formed the divine triad of Thebes. Later Amon was identified with the sun god Ra

So, as you can see, this is why I said Moab was Jordan and Ammon was Egypt.
Although I do agree that Israel will gain even more land again and the Palestinians will either live under Israel territories or leave as refugees.
Celtic.

Hi celtic,
I think you are needing a Bible Atlas in a bad way.

I always refer back to mine, otherwise I would have no clue who was being talked about, and be able to apply it to our modern day. If I'm not mistaken, Ammon is still the capital of Jordan. You're right about the location of Moab, but it is modern day Saudi Arabia. See ya

Yauming · Jun 14, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader

there is a little problem I am having. I can`t get my Daimo
to produce offspring after a couple of automatic hiars but the biggest problem is that my last daimo dies off , from illness and that ends the game.

Sorry about this private messenging. I couldn't find the button to send this via private messenging.

As for the Shogun Heir issue. Your damiyo /ruler will produce 3 or 4 heirs. Just make sure that you do not include them in the same army that your damiyo is controlling. Otherwise, they might get easily killed in battle.

I usually don't bring along my damiyo into battle. I leave him behind somewhere for safety sake.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 14, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader

The other thing is the lost tribe of Israel.

THUNDER; tell me how we can come up with 144,000 Hebrews from 12 different tribes, 12000 off each tribe when there are 10 tribes that no longer exist????

They cant just reappear and return to Israel because they wouldnt really be from these tribes because these tribes have been extinct for 2725 yrs. That is no short time, they are defiantly none existent.
If any did survive, it would have been when the Jews came out of Babylon and the Israelites migrated back as well from other nations.

To me , the Jews are an ensign of Israel and considering the land today is called Israel and not Judea means to me that they are under one nation as these prophesies said they would be. I am shore there is more to come but you again seem to be putting the whole thing in the future when we are in the middle of these fulfillments of prophesy today.

This Idea you have of the 144,000, well, I dont claim to be a full quid on revelations or anything and I dont think anyone is, but I tend to see this 144,000 figure as a majorly symbolic number.

Did you notice that 12 pops up all through the bible. I know you have. Well, also remember that 144,000 is a multiple of 12 and so is 12,000.

I could go on but do you see were I am going hear THUNDER.

.
Celtic.

Hello celtic,
I'm glad you didn't quote me before on this, because I actually gave it to you backwards. :scratch:

Actually, I should have said that we may have the two tribes of Judah, from the southern Kingdom. Israel was the ten tribes from the northern Kingdom. It is these ten tribes that are currently lost. Right now, I believe that we have Judah back in their land under the name of Israel.
We see the ten tribes as lost, but God knows where they are. They are not lost in His eyes, but He is saving their whereabouts for an appointed time. Although their ancestors have all died off, the descendants will someday in the near future, put faith in their true Messiah. These will be of the very same line as their forefathers.

You may take the 144,000 sealed of every tribe as just symbolic, but I take it as literal. I also take this to happen in the beginning of the 7 year tribulation, if not sooner. My guess is that it will be after the rapture, but there is no way to prove that beforehand, only time will tell. And I don't expect to be down here when it does happen, but who knows? Not much surprises me anymore.

Another interesting thing that makes me believe that it is now Judah that is occupying their old land is their capital. Judah and Israel were two separate Kingdoms with two different capitals. Judah, the southern Kingdom, made it's capital Jerusalem. While Israel, the northern Kingdom, made it's capital Samaria.

I believe that the population of Israel in the tribulation will be at least five times what it is now. There are many Jews still in the world, and God is going to do another miracle soon with the people He has chosen. He has promised to heal and cleanse them. We may not know where they all are, but God DOES KNOW exactly where every single one of them is, just as easy as He knows the number of hairs that are on your head right at this moment. This is a very interesting subject, and it deserves some more looking into. Great thread celtic!!!

celtic_crusader · Jun 17, 2002

hey THUNDER,
Sorry it has taken me so long to answer you , I have had pc trouble and only had short time frames on the internet.It`s all fixed now.

Hello celtic,
I'm glad you didn't quote me before on this, because I actually gave it to you backwards.
Actually, I should have said that we may have the two tribes of Judah, from the southern Kingdom. Israel was the ten tribes from the northern Kingdom. It is these ten tribes that are currently lost. Right now, I believe that we have Judah back in their land under the name of Israel.

hey , I actualy did pick you up on this bro ,

check this out;

THUNDER,
I`m not exactly shore what you mean hear??

From my knowledge the lost tribes are Isreal and that was 10 tribes but the tribe of Judah and benjamin were seperated into Judea as Jews in Davids and Solomans reign around 1000 BC

Isreal and it`s 10 tribes have been basicly extinct after spreading them into the world in 722 BC by when the Asyrian empire destroyed them , thats why there called "lost" but the Jews survived until Judea was taken by babylon in around 580 BC if I remember correctly.

LMAO , ya gotta have a laugh sometimes , hey mate.

Just wanted to let you know , ya didn`t put it past me ,

hmmm , now , as for the future , well , what can I say , your pictures of future events are a little hard for me to understand. I don`t quite have the faith to grasp it.

I see the concept but I just don`t have the faith to believe or understand it. I am shore I have the bible knowledge to understand but I can`t grasp it.

Hey brother , could you show me

why do you believe some of the things your saying about the future thunder??? is there a web site or anything like that with explinations on these concepts that I could maybe read??

could you show me some of these things from scripture THUNDER. preferibly not revelations though bro , it confuses me.there are plenty of other books in the bible to draw from though.

I would truly like to understand you on these future concepts THUNDER.

concepts like when the rapture will happen and this 7 yrs tribulation and so on.

peace

Celtic.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 17, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader

hmmm , now , as for the future , well , what can I say , your pictures of future events are a little hard for me to understand. I don`t quite have the faith to grasp it.

I see the concept but I just don`t have the faith to believe or understand it. I am shore I have the bible knowledge to understand but I can`t grasp it.

Hey brother , could you show me

why do you believe some of the things your saying about the future thunder??? is there a web site or anything like that with explinations on these concepts that I could maybe read??

could you show me some of these things from scripture THUNDER. preferibly not revelations though bro , it confuses me.there are plenty of other books in the bible to draw from though.

I would truly like to understand you on these future concepts THUNDER.

concepts like when the rapture will happen and this 7 yrs tribulation and so on.

peace

Celtic.

Hi celtic,
I don't know if I can ever get you to see what the Lord is showing me. I don't even know the reason that He is showing me these things, but He did tell me some eleven years ago that I was going to write for Him. At the time, I had no idea it was going to be on end time events way into the future. In fact, when he told me this, I didn't even know that there was going to be end time events. The purpose He has for me may be totally different from the one that He has for you, but we are both working towards the common ground, and we are both running the same race.

Celtic, I would pray that God would open your understanding in these matters. You only need faith as small as a mustard seed to move mountains, but you need the guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truth. That is one of the Holy Spirits ministries. Maybe your weakness is my strength, and your strength is my weakness. I am trying to help you understand, but I have never been good at explaining things very well, and that also makes me wonder why God would choose me for this type of stuff. Don't forget also that I only type with one finger. I believe God must have a sense of humor.

Now, back to the subject at hand. I'm not going to talk about the rapture tonight. Tonight I want to show you something else I found. I believe it proves that the Jews that came from Russia are from the kingdom of Judah. But tomorrow, I will show you what the Lord may be trying to show me about this subject that also has something to do with the rapture. But for now, lets do the Judah thing first. Check this out celtic.

Jer.3:18 - "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers."

That's pretty sound proof, huh? Tomorrow I will show you something that I have also just recently discovered, or should I say shown by the Spirit? See ya then!!

celtic_crusader · Jun 18, 2002

Hey THUNDER , it does appear to be saying that,Wow!!!

do you know of any other scriptures
like this one thunder??? I would love to know of them , I see this one and the one in Isaiah 11 but is there more that talk about Isreal in the last days???

I would love to see your views on the rapture and the 7 yr time period. I do believe in some sort of event that will capture a portion of humanity up into the air at what seems to be a time were the lord is returning.

can you expand on that or correct that for me THUNDER??

Hay , I had to laugh about you using 1 finger because I use 2 fingers

twice as fast

I am also not a good writer but I too believe god wants me to write.

hey thunder , I am on the verge of writing a book that you would find very interesting and you may be able to give me many concepts that I am looking for on future events for my story. It is a fantasy story with common themes of mythology and hades and the future of things.

It all starts long ago but comes into our future.

I have the beginning in certain perspectives but I am a little lost to the middle and the end

watch that atharitis in that finger mate , hehehe.

Celtic

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 18, 2002

Originally posted by celtic_crusader
Hey THUNDER , it does appear to be saying that,Wow!!!

do you know of any other scriptures
like this one thunder??? I would love to know of them , I see this one and the one in Isaiah 11 but is there more that talk about Isreal in the last days???

Hello celtic,
I can show you two things from that very same book of Isaiah. First, see that the tribes of Israel were to bare fruit in the world. Isaiah 27:6 -

"He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit."
------------------------------------------------------------
This next part that I show you will require you to use your imagination, but I believe that it appears that the Lord will do a miraculous work in the tribes of Israel/ just around the same time as the rapture. Notice that there is mention made of the (great trumpet) being blown.

Isaiah 27: 12-13 - "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. (13) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem."

Could this great trumpet be the one mentioned in
1 Thess.4: 16??

Would the Lord work this thing out on earth at the very same time He gathers the bride of Christ to heaven??

Remember the Lords prayer, when He said, "Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven?? :scratch:

Hmmmmmm!!!

Patmosman_sga · Jun 18, 2002

Dispensationalism, the predominant theology of American
evangelicalism, is a novelty left over from the 19th
century. It was an inadequate response to liberalism then
and is even more inadequate today. Like the liberalism it critiques, it takes the Bible neither literally nor seriously because it diminishes the significance of the Incarnation (the Word made flesh) and God's once-for-all decisive act in human history. Its focus is placed largely upon modern-day Israel, which it believes plays a major role in the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. This focus is misplaced.

At the center of God's redemptive plan for the world is the cross of Jesus Christ. All of history before, all of
history now, and all of history that is to come is taking
place under Calvary's shadow. At the cross, Old Testament Israel and New Testament Israel (the Church) gather as one and move together toward that perfection which is the outcome of all of history, the parousia, in which all of creation is restored to that which God intended before the foundation of the world.

The fatal flaw of the Israel-centered eschatology of dispensationalism is its assertion that other nations prosper or perish based upon how they respond to the modern-day state of Israel. But such an assertion is flatly unbiblical.

Because of the cross,the fate of individuals and/or nations does not hinge on their relationship to the modern political entity known as the state of Israel. God has revealed himself decisively in Jesus Christ and the fate of individuals and/or nations hinges solely on their response to him. A nation prospers when it gives proper reverence to God and his people, the Church. A nation perishes when it cares nothing for God and God's people. Ancient Israel learned this lesson the hard way. Modern Israel will not be exempt from a similar fate if it continues to make the same mistake.

The true heir to God's promise, "I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse" (Genesis 12:3), is Christ. Any person or nation which dishonors him will bear the brunt of God's wrath. The only biblical significance to the present-day conflict between "Israel" (Jews) and the "Palestinians" (Muslims) is that it provides a vivid illustration of what happens to nations and peoples who reject God's Messiah. As long as Jews and Muslims reject the Lordship of Jesus Christ, the land over which they struggle will know no rest from conflict. Striving after righteousness under the law will only lead to lawlessness.

rollinTHUNDER · Jun 18, 2002

Hello Patmosman,
As I shake the dust off my feet, Good-bye.

Does todays Isreal have the backing of god and bible prophesy as a sign of the end??

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