OK everyone, we've kinda been on this merry-go-round before... but, in case there is any new insight out there... well, I always love to hear the opinions and ideas you guys and girls give.
So... even after living here for 16 months now we have still not found a church home. Back home we went to a non-denominational church, which though not perfect (because no church is perfect) was a wonderful place for us where we could learn and grow and were we knew we were (and still are) loved (as we are, with our good points and our flaws). Our latest experiance has kinda gotten us down a little... not that we don't still know who we are in the Lord, just that we're finding it hard to think we'll ever find a church where we'll fit.
This time I'm just going to lay out our basic beliefs... (note: none of the comments made are meant to put down anyones beliefs, not at all, just stating where we are at in our beliefs and where we aren't).
God: We believe in the one triune God who is infinite, eternal, almighty, and perfect in holiness, truth and love. The trinity is made of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are co-existant, co-equal and co-eternal. Each person of ht etirnity is completely unique, yet the 3 are 1.
Jesus: is the only begotten son of God, the eternal Word made flesh, supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He is both fully God and fully man. He died on the cross for all mankind, was burried and rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father where he intercedes for his people and rules as Lord of all. He will return and the dead shall rise and the those alive in Christ will be transformed. He will judge with just and the unjust. Etc.
The Bible: We believe the Bible is true, literal and infallible. The creation story as well as other stories are literal.
Communion: Was instituted by Jesus at Passover. The elements are symbolic. The Lord's supper is open to all who believe Jesus is the Christ.
Salvation: We lean towards Calvinism in this area. We believe that God chose those who would be saved, the elect, before the foundations of the world. We believe all the elect will be saved and that the elect cannot lose their salvation. However, while we believe in predestination... it is mostly concerning Salvation. We do recognize scirptures that speak of making choices... we believe that these scriptures are speaking to the elect, that once saved there is a degree at least of free will, where we have to choose to serve God and show the fruits of our salvation. Salvation though is not by free will, if it were our choice it would be a work and we are not saved by works.
Eternity: We believe that the Bride of Christ will reign with Jesus forever... there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Satan, the fallen angels and those who didn't believe in Christ during their earthly lives will be eternally seperated from God (we lean towards a literal hell which is eternal, though we've heard some interesting arguement that the punishment is for a time and then they just cease... but, this is a mute point for us as beleivers).
Baptism: Is to be of the believer, by immersion. Not of infants. Those it should be open for children who have reached the age of understanding (which may or may not vary from child to child, not sure) and who have come to know the Lord Jesus as their savior (basically saying you don't have to be an 18 or older adult to be baptised, just a believer, old enough to understand salvation).
Gifts and Miracles: We believe neither have ceased, but are alive today. (we do see the gifts abused and faked often though and therefore tend to steer away from "overly" pentecostalish type churches, churches that are disorderly (God is a God of order, not chaos). (We also avoid churches that are into the "name it claim it"/word of faith/kingdom now kind of stuff). Saying all that... we have witnessed the gifts in action and know that they are NOT all faked, but the the Holy Spirit can and does truely move through His people to bless and edify indiviuals and the body of Christ. (Oh, and whereas Tongues are fine... they are not an absolute requirment to "prove" one is Spirit Filled).
Men and Women: were both created in Gods image and have equal value and worth in Gods site. However, we lean towards women not being in leadership positions, such as Pastor, which places them in authority over men. My Mom is a minister, and I basically leave that as... God spoke to her as to what He wanted her to do with her life, He has not told me otherwise, so I have been loving and supportive of my Mom. We do visit her church when we are visiting them. But, when finding a church home for ourselves, we would not choose a church with a woman as pastor.
On social issures:
Homosexuality: Is a sin and not an acceptable lifestyle... especially for church leadership. Those who live the homosexual lifestyle are just sinners, like the rest of us. And like other sinners, we should treat them with the love of Christ and pray for their repentance and salvation.
Divorce: Is not Gods best for us. But is permissable when for reasons such as given in scripture... though it should still be as a last resort. Still, God does not love the divorcee any less. And the person can be forgiven and restored. Those who have been divorced and remarried can still love and serve God and be mightly used by Him for His glory, just as the rest of us.
Birth control and Fertility treatments: Non-abortive methods to avoid pregnancy are fine, though couples should be cautious of their motives behind limiting the size of their families. Children are a gift from the Lord. Couples who have to seek medical help to conceive should do so. But, methods that would require the destruction of a baby at any stage beyond conception (when the sperm fertilizes the egg) should be avoided. If a large number of multiples aren't wanted, a method that could create them should be avoided.
Abortion: All life is precious and should be protected from conception through old age. Aborting a baby for convienance is murder (though we must remember that women who have gone through an abortion are hurting and need forgiveness and salvation). In a case where both Mother and baby will die and there is a chance to save the Mother... the case should be looked at on it's own basis and prayed over (though quick prayers may be needed)... the life of both Mother and Baby is precious and all that can be done to save both should be done.
and personal issues: (though we do not judge those who do otherwise, we have personal convictions concernign the following and it is how we do things for our family)
As a family we have made the personal decision to not celebrate Halloween, though we have participated in church sponsored events such as Hallelujah Night and Fall Fest... make-believe and dress-up is not a sin and neither is having fun in the Lord... the main thing for us is not giving any glory to Satan and not promoting things that are scary or gory.
We do not do the Easter Bunny, Santa or the Tooth Fairy. While make-believe is ok an a good imagination is a healthy thing... we choose to keep make-belive what it is, fiction. We do not call something that is fiction the truth. God is true, Jesus is real... these other things are not. We do presents and even a tree at Christmas, and Santa cartoons are allowed... we are just clear on the fact that Santa is a story. We have begun to incorporate Hanukah into our December activities and use it to teach about how Jesus is the Light of the World. We do not celebrate "Easter" and feel that there is scriptural evidence for this. We do however celebrate Passover and the Resurrection of Jesus... we avoid the Bunny and things that are pagan in origin that have been incorporated into tradtional "Easter" celebrations. (we are still working this out for our family since our extended famiyl still does "Easter"). While we have been studying the Jewish festivals for ourselves and our family and have been slowly incorporating them into our lives... we do not feel led to attend a Messianic church and we are fine with going to a church that does Easter (for we know that born again Christians are right in their hearts and celebrating the resurrection of our Lord to the best of their ability and they don't Have to Have the same convictions as we do).
Well... that's the basics for us.
Anyone know where we would fit in?
So... even after living here for 16 months now we have still not found a church home. Back home we went to a non-denominational church, which though not perfect (because no church is perfect) was a wonderful place for us where we could learn and grow and were we knew we were (and still are) loved (as we are, with our good points and our flaws). Our latest experiance has kinda gotten us down a little... not that we don't still know who we are in the Lord, just that we're finding it hard to think we'll ever find a church where we'll fit.
This time I'm just going to lay out our basic beliefs... (note: none of the comments made are meant to put down anyones beliefs, not at all, just stating where we are at in our beliefs and where we aren't).
God: We believe in the one triune God who is infinite, eternal, almighty, and perfect in holiness, truth and love. The trinity is made of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are co-existant, co-equal and co-eternal. Each person of ht etirnity is completely unique, yet the 3 are 1.
Jesus: is the only begotten son of God, the eternal Word made flesh, supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He is both fully God and fully man. He died on the cross for all mankind, was burried and rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father where he intercedes for his people and rules as Lord of all. He will return and the dead shall rise and the those alive in Christ will be transformed. He will judge with just and the unjust. Etc.
The Bible: We believe the Bible is true, literal and infallible. The creation story as well as other stories are literal.
Communion: Was instituted by Jesus at Passover. The elements are symbolic. The Lord's supper is open to all who believe Jesus is the Christ.
Salvation: We lean towards Calvinism in this area. We believe that God chose those who would be saved, the elect, before the foundations of the world. We believe all the elect will be saved and that the elect cannot lose their salvation. However, while we believe in predestination... it is mostly concerning Salvation. We do recognize scirptures that speak of making choices... we believe that these scriptures are speaking to the elect, that once saved there is a degree at least of free will, where we have to choose to serve God and show the fruits of our salvation. Salvation though is not by free will, if it were our choice it would be a work and we are not saved by works.
Eternity: We believe that the Bride of Christ will reign with Jesus forever... there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Satan, the fallen angels and those who didn't believe in Christ during their earthly lives will be eternally seperated from God (we lean towards a literal hell which is eternal, though we've heard some interesting arguement that the punishment is for a time and then they just cease... but, this is a mute point for us as beleivers).
Baptism: Is to be of the believer, by immersion. Not of infants. Those it should be open for children who have reached the age of understanding (which may or may not vary from child to child, not sure) and who have come to know the Lord Jesus as their savior (basically saying you don't have to be an 18 or older adult to be baptised, just a believer, old enough to understand salvation).
Gifts and Miracles: We believe neither have ceased, but are alive today. (we do see the gifts abused and faked often though and therefore tend to steer away from "overly" pentecostalish type churches, churches that are disorderly (God is a God of order, not chaos). (We also avoid churches that are into the "name it claim it"/word of faith/kingdom now kind of stuff). Saying all that... we have witnessed the gifts in action and know that they are NOT all faked, but the the Holy Spirit can and does truely move through His people to bless and edify indiviuals and the body of Christ. (Oh, and whereas Tongues are fine... they are not an absolute requirment to "prove" one is Spirit Filled).
Men and Women: were both created in Gods image and have equal value and worth in Gods site. However, we lean towards women not being in leadership positions, such as Pastor, which places them in authority over men. My Mom is a minister, and I basically leave that as... God spoke to her as to what He wanted her to do with her life, He has not told me otherwise, so I have been loving and supportive of my Mom. We do visit her church when we are visiting them. But, when finding a church home for ourselves, we would not choose a church with a woman as pastor.
On social issures:
Homosexuality: Is a sin and not an acceptable lifestyle... especially for church leadership. Those who live the homosexual lifestyle are just sinners, like the rest of us. And like other sinners, we should treat them with the love of Christ and pray for their repentance and salvation.
Divorce: Is not Gods best for us. But is permissable when for reasons such as given in scripture... though it should still be as a last resort. Still, God does not love the divorcee any less. And the person can be forgiven and restored. Those who have been divorced and remarried can still love and serve God and be mightly used by Him for His glory, just as the rest of us.
Birth control and Fertility treatments: Non-abortive methods to avoid pregnancy are fine, though couples should be cautious of their motives behind limiting the size of their families. Children are a gift from the Lord. Couples who have to seek medical help to conceive should do so. But, methods that would require the destruction of a baby at any stage beyond conception (when the sperm fertilizes the egg) should be avoided. If a large number of multiples aren't wanted, a method that could create them should be avoided.
Abortion: All life is precious and should be protected from conception through old age. Aborting a baby for convienance is murder (though we must remember that women who have gone through an abortion are hurting and need forgiveness and salvation). In a case where both Mother and baby will die and there is a chance to save the Mother... the case should be looked at on it's own basis and prayed over (though quick prayers may be needed)... the life of both Mother and Baby is precious and all that can be done to save both should be done.
and personal issues: (though we do not judge those who do otherwise, we have personal convictions concernign the following and it is how we do things for our family)
As a family we have made the personal decision to not celebrate Halloween, though we have participated in church sponsored events such as Hallelujah Night and Fall Fest... make-believe and dress-up is not a sin and neither is having fun in the Lord... the main thing for us is not giving any glory to Satan and not promoting things that are scary or gory.
We do not do the Easter Bunny, Santa or the Tooth Fairy. While make-believe is ok an a good imagination is a healthy thing... we choose to keep make-belive what it is, fiction. We do not call something that is fiction the truth. God is true, Jesus is real... these other things are not. We do presents and even a tree at Christmas, and Santa cartoons are allowed... we are just clear on the fact that Santa is a story. We have begun to incorporate Hanukah into our December activities and use it to teach about how Jesus is the Light of the World. We do not celebrate "Easter" and feel that there is scriptural evidence for this. We do however celebrate Passover and the Resurrection of Jesus... we avoid the Bunny and things that are pagan in origin that have been incorporated into tradtional "Easter" celebrations. (we are still working this out for our family since our extended famiyl still does "Easter"). While we have been studying the Jewish festivals for ourselves and our family and have been slowly incorporating them into our lives... we do not feel led to attend a Messianic church and we are fine with going to a church that does Easter (for we know that born again Christians are right in their hearts and celebrating the resurrection of our Lord to the best of their ability and they don't Have to Have the same convictions as we do).
Well... that's the basics for us.
Anyone know where we would fit in?
!
