My great great granfather was not a monkey!!!!!

Aron-Ra · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
Neo-Darwinist race theorists make the point though, of associating the image and likeness of Jesus and Abraham with common ancestors of African apes and monkeys. As a matter of fact, neo-Darwinist race theorists would identify and classify Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Mohammed as monkeys and apes.

Well, they are.

No wonder African Muslims in France don't like secular Frenchmen who deny their own Neanderthal ancestry from Noah and hypocritically pose as Homo sapiens descendents of African people instead.

Looks like some evolutionist hominids out of Africa have come home to roast, er, roost.

Well, this will be the last time I reply to you. Because your last comments prove that you can't just be ignorant. But you could be completely out of your mind.

gluadys · Dec 20, 2005

Nice Dream said:
Why in genesis is there a distinction made in the days of creation between humans and animals?

There isn't. Terrestrial animals and humans are created on the same day.

Personally i see that evolution and the bible are incompatible, not that i see any Christian who believes in evolution to be any less Christian as it is not the central message of the bible.

So evolution is incompatible with the way you read the bible. To me it makes sense to suppose in such a case that the way I read the bible is wrong and needs to be corrected. But if you prefer to live with cognitive dissonance, so be it.

gluadys · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
Everything is created .... everything. Even theories of evolution are created.

And every created thing evolves. Even the theory of evolution.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

Aron-Ra said:
No he is not. Nor did he ever imply that, even in the pages of your own mythos. And your Genesis quote was based on an almost identical passage originally written in Enuma Elish, a Sumerian creation myth almost 2,000 years older than the first archaeological hints of your Bible, and written by the ancestors of the Biblical authors! Don't deny the demonstrable facts of reality in favor of a fable, especially one plagiarized from polytheism.

Looks like you've plagiarized or invented a few fables yourself to help substantiate your own neo-Darwinist monkey mythos. Where did the Sumerians come from if they were not Neanderthal descendents of Noah whose fossils from The Cave of Shanidar in Iraq are dated 75 KYA?

Aron-Ra · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
Looks like you've plagiarized or invented a few fables yourself to help substantiate your own neo-Darwinist monkey mythos. Where did the Sumerians come from if they were not Neanderthal descendents of Noah whose fossils from The Cave of Shanidar in Iraq are dated 75 KYA?

Run along now and play, OK? The grownups want to talk.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

Aron-Ra said:
Look at it this way, all ducks are birds, but not all birds are ducks, get it?

I see. All humans are primates but not all primates are human. I get it. Humans are a sub-order of primates and have their own special Human taxon within the primate order. Thank God. Now we can't be classified as hominids or hominoids in the Hominidae family or Hominoidea superfamily of great neo-Darwinist apes or in some monkey family tree like Aron-Ra chooses to be.

gluadys · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
We have not been deprived of a hyoid bone which is essential for human speech and the articulation of human thought. That unique physical characteristic alone, which we do not share with any other primate and completely separates us from them, is enough to justify a special Human taxon in phylogenic trees for all who qualify themselves as eligible and are willing and able to voice their human right to taxonomic choice.

Other primates are not deprived of a hyoid bone either.

e.g.

Alouatta seniculus is one of the smaller atelines with males and females averaging 6,690 g and 5,210 g respectively (Fleagle, 1999). Alouatta is a member of the Atelinae, a group of large-bodied arboreal platyrrhines that includes the spider monkeys, woolly monkeys, and woolly spider monkeys. Howlers range from Argentina all the way to southern Mexico and are more folivorous than other platyrrhines (Fleagle, 1999). Alouatta has a distinctive cranium with an elongated face and very deep mandible. Its hyoid bone, which sits below the mandible in the throat, is expanded into a balloon-like structure that acts as a resonating chamber for their namesake vocalizations (Fleagle, 1999).

http://digimorph.org/specimens/Alouatta_seniculus/281673/

I also came across a paper analysing the development of the hyoid bone in infant chimpanzees. I expect if I took a little longer I could verify the existence of a hyoid bone in other primates as well.

So the hyoid bone is not a uniquely human trait.

Grengor · Dec 20, 2005

John doesn't let things like facts get in his way. He's got a theory to slander, people!

FordPrefect · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
I see. All humans are primates but not all primates are human. I get it. Humans are a sub-order of primates and have their own special Human taxon within the primate order. Thank God. Now we can't be classified as hominids or hominoids in the Hominidae family or Hominoidea superfamily of great neo-Darwinist apes or in some monkey family tree like Aron-Ra chooses to be.

I think I have lurked long enough to finally get you... You are right! All primates are Socrates.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

Aron-Ra said:
Monkeys and humans are not seperately classified as you asserted they were.
Within primates there are prosimians and monkeys

Neo-Darwinsts classify primates as prosimians or anthropoids.
http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/table_primates.htm

Creationists classify primates as prosimians, anthropoids and Humans, with Humans subsequently in their own infraorder and superfamily.

And by the way, the difference in speech is not made a bone one of us that the other does not.

Human speech and the physical ability to vocally articulate various symbolic languages is still a unique physical characteristic which no other primates share with humans. Therefore, humans are a sub-order of primates.
http://www.whyevolution.com/chimps.html

Humans have a smidge more arch than any other ape. And that's what gives us the room in our mouths to articulate words, which you seem to think is some kind of magic power of something. That feature makes us distinct among apes, but it cannot distinguish us from them.

It is a "distinction" by which humans are justified in "distinguishing" themselves from apes if they so choose. If you can't or don't wish to distinguish yourself from apes and other primates, that's your problem or choice, but simply not being able nor wishing to doesn't give you the right to include people who can make the distinction, in your primate sub-order or on your family tree.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

Aron-Ra said:
Well, this will be the last time I reply to you. Because your last comments prove that you can't just be ignorant. But you could be completely out of your mind.

I'm completely out of your neo-Darwinist mindset. That's for sure.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

gluadys said:
And every created thing evolves. Even the theory of evolution.

Nothing evolves into anything it was not created to be in the first place.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

Aron-Ra said:
Run along now and play, OK? The grownups want to talk.

What do you want to talk about? Evolutionist fairy tales for children and adults?

Beastt · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
Nothing evolves into anything it was not created to be in the first place.

That doesn't apply to even renovated buildings, software, sporting events or government programs. I think it rather improbable that your assumption will evolve into anything worthy of wide-spread belief.

And the idea that things in nature were created, is an assumption.

Beastt · Dec 20, 2005

john crawford said:
What do you want to talk about? Evolutionist fairy tales for children and adults?

We could, I suppose. But if we want to be productive, we should probably talk about the real theory of evolution and leave the creationist version for Sunday sermons.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

gluadys said:
I also came across a paper analysing the development of the hyoid bone in infant chimpanzees. I expect if I took a little longer I could verify the existence of a hyoid bone in other primates as well.

So the hyoid bone is not a uniquely human trait.

So my Neanderthal ancesters get to produce human speech after all. That is certainly good news.

john crawford · Dec 20, 2005

Beastt said:
And the idea that things in nature were created, is an assumption.

The idea that things in nature evolved is an assumption based on their having been created in the first place.

Ioinc · Dec 21, 2005

john crawford said:
Everything is created .... everything. Even theories of evolution are created.

Everything except God

Beastt · Dec 21, 2005

john crawford said:
The idea that things in nature evolved is an assumption based on their having been created in the first place.

Assumptions are those things not based in conclusive evidence... like creation. Science encompasses those things based in evidence... like evolution.

cwolf20 · Dec 21, 2005

speaking for all of us are you? It's 6:40 am, and I'm looking for a laugh not a debate. *grin*

Aron-Ra said:
Run along now and play, OK? The grownups want to talk.

My great great granfather was not a monkey!!!!!

Senior Veteran

Legend

Legend

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Legend

GrenAce

WWADGD

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Legend

Legend

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Ioinc

Guest

Legend

Huggee Of haL

Similar threads