Mikvah and Teshuva.......need some info......

simchat_torah · Dec 17, 2005

According to your beliefs, yes. However, the wording you chose is highly offensive to the Jewish community here. As well, you completely missed the essence of Teshuvah.

If you're going to speak on any authoritative level at all concerning Judaism, at least attempt to do some reasearch. Moreover, try to choose wording that will not offend the Jewish community here on the forums.

Higher Truth · Dec 17, 2005

simchat_torah said:
According to your beliefs, yes. However, the wording you chose is highly offensive to the Jewish community here. As well, you completely missed the essence of Teshuvah.

If you're going to speak on any authoritative level at all concerning Judaism, at least attempt to do some reasearch. Moreover, try to choose wording that will not offend the Jewish community here on the forums.

I am sorry Simchat, I forgot that you are now the Jewish expert. You however, forgot that this is Christian forums, where people discuss things Christian in nature.I realize that some people might be offended by that. That is why I do not go over to the Messiah Truth forum and post my opinions there, because I respect their opinions, even though I disagree with them. Remember, there are as many different opinions in Judaism, as there are Jews.

Tishri1 · Dec 17, 2005

Andyman_1970 said:
He may have held the coats at Stephens stoning, but he did not pick up a stone, Jewish tradition says those who pick up stones (to stone) are indicating they think the person being stoned is guilty of the crime they are being stoned for..something to think about.

only those who are witnesses to the crime of the person can stone, Paul was not a witness to Peter's blasphemy (or what ever else he was being falsely accused of)...Paul was a witness to the stoning and I would say held the possition of like a deputy sheriff maybe(is that tooo bold to say) :wave:

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 18, 2005

To jump back in here, since my non-Jewish sources were not acceptable here are two JEWISH sources for Mikvah and Teshuva

I apologize if someone has already given these but when I saw them I just wanted to get them posted since the one on Mikvah is the same as the non-Jewish source stated.

Higher Truth · Dec 18, 2005

quote from the website:

Stories from the Talmud about "Teshuvah" Repentance

Could some one please guide me to the specific passage in the Torah, where the word tesuvah is used in this application. Could you also direct me to the specific passage where the word miqveh is commanded of all as a form of ritual cleansing.

Thank you

baraqemet · Dec 18, 2005

The comments below were posted on another large Messianic forum that I belong to a while back. It talks of people getting conversions, and then being mikvah'd in a swimming pool :o

I received an email that Michael Detwiler, James' Av and vice-president of SANJ, was also not Jewish but had bought a false conversion from a rabbi named Lerer, in Denver. I called several of the synagogues in Denver to try and locate the rabbi. It turned out that Rabbi Nathan Lerer was not even a legitimate rabbi. I spoke with Nathan Lerer. Yes he did the conversions of Michael Detwiler, his family, including Christopher Detwiler, who also goes by the name of Boaz Detwiler and Boaz Michael, of FFOZ, and of Ralph Messer. I also spoke with Ralph Messer. The first time I asked about Nathan Lerer, in reference to Michael Detwiler, he said that he did not know him. Then after I spoke with Nathan Lerer, Messer admitted that he knew him and that they had undergone a conversion of sorts, but that he did not consider it legit, but more like an anointing. It was done in a swimming pool. No test was given. Michael Detwiler first stated that they had not undergone a conversion, then when he knew that I had spoken with Lerer, admitted, but said that it was legit and they had a
long test to take. When I asked about the denying Messiah aspect of a formal conversion, he said that Lerer did not ask and they did not deny. Lerer said that he did know and they were making formal conversion.
Lerer made numerous conversions to Goy who now claim to be Jewish and act as if they always were, lording it over others and setting up their own organizations, marketing their "Jewishness", publishing their version of Torah. Detwiler paid several thousand dollars for his. Messer now calls himself Rabbi and has even issued a get, from what I last heard. I don't know how many more have been issued. How do you think this looks to the Jewish community? Does this make them want to accept this Messiah that these liars, deceivers and thieves speak of with their agendas and marketing of the Jewish heritage?
I know that some from Jews for Judaism participate at this forum. I
have spoken with Moshe Shulman several times when he heard that I had proof that Trimm was not Jewish. Where I may not agree with his position concerning Messiah, he did not lie to me or present himself as anything other than what he was, nor was he attacking. I had also spoken with Mark Powers of Jews for Judaism. Mark never lied to me, nor was he attacking. In fact we had some great conversations. I enjoyed his questions and comments concerning if there was a Messiah. And if you read this Mark, I am still researching some of the subjects we spoke about. These two men conducted themselves uprightly in their dealings with me. Yet James Trimm and Michael Detwiler did lie to me, and did attack me. Michael later wrote a letter and called to ask my forgiveness. Ralph Messer also lied to me.
Tell me how that looks for the Messianic community when these three men, who are not Jewish, but claiming to be and have major organizations behave so poorly. It is not Jews for Judaism you need to worry about. And just because they are from Jews for Judaism, would not negate the fact that they were the first to investigate Nathan Lerer for false conversions. Their information in the matter is correct. They were simply trying to protect their community and rightly so. I wish the Messianic community protected themselves as zealously. I verified all their accounts.

Higher Truth · Dec 18, 2005

Yes, I belong to the same forum where that was posted and read it then. Some on this forum often post links to a site that is run by one of the people named in the post above, and cite it as a Jewish resource. Oy vey.

Higher Truth · Dec 18, 2005

Quaffer said:
To jump back in here, since my non-Jewish sources were not acceptable here are two JEWISH sources for Mikvah and Teshuva

I apologize if someone has already given these but when I saw them I just wanted to get them posted since the one on Mikvah is the same as the non-Jewish source stated.

I didn't see the part about it being ok to add tap water as in the wikipedia quote. Did I miss it?

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 18, 2005

Higher Truth said:
I didn't see the part about it being ok to add tap water as in the wikipedia quote. Did I miss it?

What are you talking about? I did'nt say anything about adding tapwater. :scratch:

When I gave the quote we were talking about it being in the ocean.

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 18, 2005

Shuwb (or shuv) - the root of t'shuva

is used as follows:

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Genesis[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]60[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Exodus[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]24[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Leviticus[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]14[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Numbers[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]30[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Deuteronomy[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]31[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Joshua[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]33[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Judges[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]27[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Ruth[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]13[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1 Samuel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]43[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2 Samuel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]47[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1 Kings[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]54[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2 Kings[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]53[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1 Chronicles[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]5[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2 Chronicles[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]54[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Ezra[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]4[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Nehemiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]18[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Esther[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]8[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Job[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]38[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Psalms[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]67[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Proverbs[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]23[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]Ecclesiastes[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]9[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Solomon[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Isaiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]50[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Jeremiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]92[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Lamentations[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]13[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Ezekiel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]53[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Daniel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]12[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Hosea[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]21[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]Joel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]6[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Amos[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]15[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Obadiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Jonah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]4[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Micah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]5[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Nahum[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Habakkuk[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Zephaniah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Zechariah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]15[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Malachi[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]5 [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Total[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]952[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]King James Word Usage - Total: 1066 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]return 391, ...again 248, turn 123, ...back 65, ...away 56, restore 39, bring 34, render 19, answer 18, recompense 8, recover 6, deliver 5, put 5, withdraw 5, requite 4, miscellaneous [/font]

the hebrew word shuv means:

[font=Arial, Helvetica]

to return, turn back
1. (Qal)
  1. to turn back, return 1a
2. to turn back 1a
3. to return, come or go back 1a
4. to return unto, go back, come back 1a
5. of dying 1a
6. of human relations (fig) 1a
7. of spiritual relations (fig) 1a
  1. to turn back (from God), apostatise 1a
  2. to turn away (of God) 1a
  3. to turn back (to God), repent 1a
  4. turn back (from evil) 1a
8. of inanimate things 1a
9. in repetition
10. (Polel)
  1. to bring back
  2. to restore, refresh, repair (fig)
  3. to lead away (enticingly)
  4. to show turning, apostatise
11. (Pual) restored (participle)
12. (Hiphil) to cause to return, bring back
  1. to bring back, allow to return, put back, draw back, give back, restore, relinquish, give in payment
  2. to bring back, refresh, restore
  3. to bring back, report to, answer
  4. to bring back, make requital, pay (as recompense)
  5. to turn back or backward, repel, defeat, repulse, hinder, reject, refuse
  6. to turn away (face), turn toward
  7. to turn against
  8. to bring back to mind
  9. to show a turning away 1d
to reverse, revoke
1. (Hophal) to be returned, be restored, be brought back
2. (Pulal) brought back

1. [/font]

Wags · Dec 18, 2005

baraqemet said:
The comments below were posted on another large Messianic forum that I belong to a while back. It talks of people getting conversions, and then being mikvah'd in a swimming pool :o

I received an email that Michael Detwiler, James' Av and vice-president of SANJ, was also not Jewish but had bought a false conversion from a rabbi named Lerer, in Denver. I called several of the synagogues in Denver to try and locate the rabbi. It turned out that Rabbi Nathan Lerer was not even a legitimate rabbi. I spoke with Nathan Lerer. Yes he did the conversions of Michael Detwiler, his family, including Christopher Detwiler, who also goes by the name of Boaz Detwiler and Boaz Michael, of FFOZ, and of Ralph Messer. I also spoke with Ralph Messer. The first time I asked about Nathan Lerer, in reference to Michael Detwiler, he said that he did not know him. Then after I spoke with Nathan Lerer, Messer admitted that he knew him and that they had undergone a conversion of sorts, but that he did not consider it legit, but more like an anointing. It was done in a swimming pool. No test was given. Michael Detwiler first stated that they had not undergone a conversion, then when he knew that I had spoken with Lerer, admitted, but said that it was legit and they had a
long test to take. When I asked about the denying Messiah aspect of a formal conversion, he said that Lerer did not ask and they did not deny. Lerer said that he did know and they were making formal conversion.
Lerer made numerous conversions to Goy who now claim to be Jewish and act as if they always were, lording it over others and setting up their own organizations, marketing their "Jewishness", publishing their version of Torah. Detwiler paid several thousand dollars for his. Messer now calls himself Rabbi and has even issued a get, from what I last heard. I don't know how many more have been issued. How do you think this looks to the Jewish community? Does this make them want to accept this Messiah that these liars, deceivers and thieves speak of with their agendas and marketing of the Jewish heritage?
I know that some from Jews for Judaism participate at this forum. I
have spoken with Moshe Shulman several times when he heard that I had proof that Trimm was not Jewish. Where I may not agree with his position concerning Messiah, he did not lie to me or present himself as anything other than what he was, nor was he attacking. I had also spoken with Mark Powers of Jews for Judaism. Mark never lied to me, nor was he attacking. In fact we had some great conversations. I enjoyed his questions and comments concerning if there was a Messiah. And if you read this Mark, I am still researching some of the subjects we spoke about. These two men conducted themselves uprightly in their dealings with me. Yet James Trimm and Michael Detwiler did lie to me, and did attack me. Michael later wrote a letter and called to ask my forgiveness. Ralph Messer also lied to me.
Tell me how that looks for the Messianic community when these three men, who are not Jewish, but claiming to be and have major organizations behave so poorly. It is not Jews for Judaism you need to worry about. And just because they are from Jews for Judaism, would not negate the fact that they were the first to investigate Nathan Lerer for false conversions. Their information in the matter is correct. They were simply trying to protect their community and rightly so. I wish the Messianic community protected themselves as zealously. I verified all their accounts.

Are you quoting yourself here i.e that you personally verified this - or are you just posting accusations from some annonymous source?

And what does any of your post have to do with the OP question?

Higher Truth · Dec 18, 2005

Quaffer said:
What are you talking about? I did'nt say anything about adding tapwater. When I gave the quote we were talking about it being in the ocean.

You had originally put up a post from wikipedia. When I saw it, it said something about mixing tap water. When I saw that, my eyes got glassy, and I didn't read the rest of it.

baraqemet · Dec 18, 2005

The accusations were originally posted by Messianic researcher Kathryn Kern, on her website, and on Messianic forums.

Higher Truth · Dec 18, 2005

Quaffer said:
Shuwb (or shuv) - the root of t'shuva

is used as follows:

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Genesis[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]60[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Exodus[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]24[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Leviticus[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]14[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Numbers[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]30[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Deuteronomy[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]31[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Joshua[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]33[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Judges[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]27[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Ruth[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]13[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1 Samuel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]43[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2 Samuel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]47[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1 Kings[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]54[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2 Kings[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]53[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1 Chronicles[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]5[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2 Chronicles[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]54[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Ezra[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]4[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Nehemiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]18[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Esther[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]8[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Job[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]38[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Psalms[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]67[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Proverbs[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]23[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]Ecclesiastes[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]9[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Solomon[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Isaiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]50[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Jeremiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]92[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Lamentations[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]13[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Ezekiel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]53[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Daniel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]12[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Hosea[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]21[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]Joel[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]6[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Amos[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]15[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Obadiah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Jonah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]4[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Micah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]5[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Nahum[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Habakkuk[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]1[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Zephaniah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]2[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Zechariah[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]15[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Malachi[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]5 [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]Total[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]952[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]King James Word Usage - Total: 1066 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica]return 391, ...again 248, turn 123, ...back 65, ...away 56, restore 39, bring 34, render 19, answer 18, recompense 8, recover 6, deliver 5, put 5, withdraw 5, requite 4, miscellaneous [/font]

the hebrew word shuv means:

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to return, turn back[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica](Qal)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn back, return 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn back 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to return, come or go back 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to return unto, go back, come back 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]of dying 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]of human relations (fig) 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]of spiritual relations (fig) 1a
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn back (from God), apostatise 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn away (of God) 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn back (to God), repent 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]turn back (from evil) 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]of inanimate things 1a[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]in repetition[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica](Polel)
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to bring back[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to restore, refresh, repair (fig)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to lead away (enticingly)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to show turning, apostatise[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica](Pual) restored (participle)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica](Hiphil) to cause to return, bring back
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to bring back, allow to return, put back, draw back, give back, restore, relinquish, give in payment[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to bring back, refresh, restore[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to bring back, report to, answer[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to bring back, make requital, pay (as recompense)[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn back or backward, repel, defeat, repulse, hinder, reject, refuse[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn away (face), turn toward[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to turn against[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to bring back to mind[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to show a turning away 1d[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]to reverse, revoke
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica](Hophal) to be returned, be restored, be brought back[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica](Pulal) brought back [/font]

I know that shuwb occurs in the Hebrew Scripures. What I asked for was a verse that used teshuvah in the rabbinic application. The same for miqveh.

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 18, 2005

Higher Truth said:
You had originally put up a post from wikipedia. When I saw it, it said something about mixing tap water. When I saw that, my eyes got glassy, and I didn't read the rest of it.

Does that happen often? How much have you possibly missed because you did not bother to read the whole thing.

"Something about mixing tap water" I think you need to re-read it so that you know what it really said about tap water. The WHOLE TRUTH, not just some of it.

baraqemet · Dec 18, 2005

HT wrote:
I know that shuwb occurs in the Hebrew Scripures. What I asked for was a verse that used teshuvah in the rabbinic application. The same for miqveh.

I have searched the Tenach and there does not appear to be an application that deals with repentance. I am hoping that the more studied people here can help me find this. I found these 8 verses that use "teshuvah" [#8666].

1Sa 7:17 And his return 08666 [was] to Ramah 07414; for there [was] his house 01004; and there he judged 08199 Israel 03478; and there he built 01129 an altar 04196 unto the LORD 03068.

2Sa 11:1 And it came to pass, after the year 08141 was expired 08666, at the time 06256 when kings 04428 04397 go forth 03318 [to battle], that David 01732 sent 07971 Joab 03097, and his servants 05650 with him, and all Israel 03478; and they destroyed 07843 the children 01121 of Ammon 05983, and besieged 06696 Rabbah 07237. But David 01732 tarried still 03427 at Jerusalem 03389.

1Ki 20:22 And the prophet 05030 came 05066 to the king 04428 of Israel 03478, and said 0559 unto him, Go 03212 , strengthen 02388 thyself, and mark 03045 , and see 07200 what thou doest 06213 : for at the return 08666 of the year 08141 the king 04428 of Syria 0758 will come up 05927 against thee.

1Ki 20:26 And it came to pass at the return 08666 of the year 08141, that Benhadad 01130 numbered 06485 the Syrians 0758, and went up 05927 to Aphek 0663, to fight 04421 against Israel 03478.

1Ch 20:1 And it came to pass, that after 06256 the year 08141 was expired 08666, at the time 06256 that kings 04428 go out 03318 [to battle], Joab 03097 led forth 05090 the power 02428 of the army 06635, and wasted 07843 the country 0776 of the children 01121 of Ammon 05983, and came 0935 and besieged 06696 Rabbah 07237. But David 01732 tarried 03427 at Jerusalem 03389. And Joab 03097 smote 05221 Rabbah 07237, and destroyed 02040 it.

2Ch 36:10 And when the year 08141 was expired 08666, king 04428 Nebuchadnezzar 05019 sent 07971 , and brought 0935 him to Babylon 0894, with the goodly 02532 vessels 03627 of the house 01004 of the LORD 03068, and made Zedekiah 06667 his brother 0251 king 04427 over Judah 03063 and Jerusalem 03389.

Job 21:34 How then comfort 05162 ye me in vain 01892, seeing in your answers 08666 there remaineth 07604 falsehood 04604?

Job 34:36 My desire 015 01 [is that] Job 0347 may be tried 0974 unto the end 05331 because of [his] answers 08666 for wicked 0205 men 0582.

I did find the definition that was discussed here on the forum on a Jewish kabbalah site.

I also could not find miqveh used in any application that had to do with the ritual cleansing. Maybe I just need some help in locating these. Thank you all.

simchat_torah · Dec 20, 2005

am sorry Simchat, I forgot that you are now the Jewish expert.

mmmm, yummy. insults.

You however, forgot that this is Christian forums, where people discuss things Christian in nature

I have no problem with christian discussion and/or religous debate. However, when one purposefully insults Jewish beliefs (oh hey, and let's not forget those personal attacks!

) it wanders from the point of these forums.

realize that some people might be offended by that.

The offense is because you proclaim "X" is the belief of Judaism. It is not only wrong, but also insulting.

Well, I'll just simply exit this thread with a hearty Shalom. I see it has degraded to personal insults. I was hoping to actually discuss some differences between christian baptism and the jewish mikvah, but others want to speak on the behalf of Judaism.

-Yafet

simchat_torah · Dec 20, 2005

p.s.

re you quoting yourself here i.e that you personally verified this - or are you just posting accusations from some annonymous source?

These are not accusations, but proven fact. Trimm and gang are not Jewish but pose as Jews.

Mikvah and Teshuva.......need some info......

Got Torah?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Heavy lean toward Messianic

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Heavy lean toward Messianic

Heavy lean toward Messianic

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Heavy lean toward Messianic

Active Member

Got Torah?

Got Torah?

Similar threads