on harmonizing James with faith alone..

"Actually, it is not that our faith validates the works, but that by our faith, we allow Jesus Christ to work through us. Faith without works is dead, by the way."

*sigh* you're taking that verse out of context..why don't you read the WHOLE book before jumping to the wrong conclusion.

"It's certainly not by faith alone, because I only see one verse that has the phrase "faith alone" in it and that is in James and it says our justification is NOT by faith alone. '

And taken out of context, yes that means we are saved by works. Thank goodness its supposed to be taken in context huh?

"Grace can be given to us outside of faith. "

Umm...okay???? Salvation is by grace ALONE. We have faith that saves us and it is made valid by grace. Then we are saved. No works needed.

"Try explaining to Jesus Christ why you didn't use the gifts He gave to you and see what sort of response you wind up getting."

You get no rewards. don't mean you aren't saved I really don't think its possible to be saved and not do works, but that DOESN'T mean that I am saved by what I do..for it is by faith alone I am saved, else grace matters not.

"Actions speak louder than words, right?"

Okay, if you don't want to read chapter 1 for yourself then lets look at how James sets up his letter. Personally I think the statement "What good is it, my borhters, if aman claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such a faith save him?" is enough. James clearly makes the point that its not true faith because true faith expresses itself in deeds just like a dog barks, but the barking doesn't make it a dog.

"If you do not do the works, your faith is nothing more than belief and we know that even the demons believe"

Here you have shown me you didn't look at that verse closely. Believe and have faith in or belief are very different things. Check your greek bible for more details

"after you develop this faith, you do no works, you're lost. "

Not according to the thief that was saved on the cross. He did NO works and was saved. Opps..there goes that arguement.

"That's exactly what James is saying"

No, james is saying if you are a christian then live like it. It is a correctional letter, not a letter of theology. Look at verse 19 and you should see that.

"You need to re-read the Matthew verses I supplied and you didn't even address. You want to be a goat, or a sheep?"

*sigh* you obviously didn't look at anything I told you to look at. So tell me, when does a sheep stop being a sheep then? If its not once saved always saved then show me where it shows a sheep turning into a goat...hmmm? Point of the story: THEY DON'T. Faith alone bro.

"Stop it please."

I'm not trying to be condesenting. Just like if I talk to you about math and you say yeah..one and one are three..I will say, man you don't know what you're talking about. That is the case here.

"No, that is not the point James is making. "

That's exactly the ponit James is making. Look at the openning statements of the letter. He starts off with encouragement for the people he is writting to must not be living right or he would be talking about how you should live what you believe. Then in verse 19 he starts his case. in verse 22 he hits home.."Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselvesl.Do what it says." James is saying live like you are a christian!! Don't just confess and fool yourselves into beleiving that is real faith. He is saying its a matter of the heart and the actions reflect the heart. Again he shows that in verse 26. He is written to people that take the extreme. the same people that Paul probalby was talking to when he said should we sin so that grace abounds more..surely not!

The summation of the letter is found in verse 22 "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceiver yourselves. Do what is says." Live like you're a christian.

"The thief actively participated in his salvation when he asked Jesus for forgiveness. "

:lol: the thief did NOTHING. The only thing he did was have faith in Christ. That's it. Why? Because that's all it takes.

"You better live like it, because if you just think you're one and you don't act it"

*sigh* no that's not it at all. Salvation is by grace alone. Go look that up and see what it means. Faith by grace..that's IT. Nothing else or it wouldn't be grace. No works, period!

"depends on how we lived our lives"

So we have to earn salvation now huh? Then you spell it god and not God because you're taking power away from him. It is by grace ALONE we are saved. It is to people like you Paul was talking to when he said 1. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Let me state that whole passage for you so you can understand. Paul makes it very clear. " This righteouness from God comes through FAITH in zjesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and are justified freely by his GRACE though the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. then in verse 28 "For we maintain that a man is JUSTIFED BY FAITH APART FROM OBSERVING THE LAW (ie any good work you can name)."

Paul again says it in eps "NOT BY WORKS..."

How often does the bible have to say it for you to believe it huh? Your last statement is utter foolishness. You can't be a goat and a sheep at the same time, nor can a goat turn into a sheep or vice versa. once you are saved you are saved permiently and works have NOTHING to do with it.

ed, as always you're off just enough to be dangerously wrong.

"Please tell us what "grace" means."

Grace is getting something you can not do anything to get. Ie works.

"Please tell us what you understand by "faith.""

Our response to Grace.

"Can anyone be SAVED by Grace ALONE and/or Faith ALONE even if he HAS NOT DONE the WILL of the Father in heaven "

Read romans 9-11 Paul addresses that problem with Isreal's rejection of Christ and comes to the conclusion that they will be saved. Why? Because God is sovergn

"Can anyone be SAVED by Grace ALONE and/or Faith ALONE even if he HAS NOT ENTERED the fold as Jesus COMMANDS "

Yes, because being saved by Grace alone though faith you enter that gate. Thats how you get it ed.

"Just our whole existence and life (what we do, what we say, etc.) should be worship to God totally for His Glory 100% of the time."

Ahh..you miss an interesting point that our ST. makes (I love that quote by the way) this is POST salvation. The action talked about here is preaching the word, not salvation. This comes from a true faith being expressed. I totally agree with you when you say it works together. If you read my openning post you will see that The point I make is that works are a POST salvation event.

"I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

TXpiper, that proves it right there..they where never know, true faith was never there. Again proving works don't save, only true faith does.

"I don't believe YOU nor LouisBooth can TRULY read and understand the ORIGINMAL Greek manuscripts."

Ed, you wouldn't be able to understand greek if God himself told you. You're so set in believing in your way and no one else's it will only take God telling you you're wrong...which is fine by me, but I'm sure when he tells you Jesus is God, you'll feel kinda bad

oh..the link is wrong...I even replaced the :"[" with l to say html and it still didnt work.

BEcause thats not what the bible says. It says faith alone. Grace through faith alone. That's it. Anything else and it isn't grace. To do works to prove your faith is contrary to what grace is. Either its grace or its works. Can't have it both ways.