The Truth About Moses

Jimmy West · Dec 10, 2005

Most people believe that Moses was not allowed to cross the Jordan into the Land of Milk and Honey because he had angered God. That is not true. God was very pleased with Moses. Moses had done an incredible thing. There was no other man on the earth at that time who could have done what Moses had done. Moses had done the very best that he could do. That always pleases God. God did not hold Moses accountable for the behavior of the huge group of people that he had been leading. Moses had done everything that God had told him to do. He did become angry and frustrated at times, but those emotions were shared by God. The people, through free will, were held accountable to God. The truth is that Moses was literally worn out. He was extremely tired and frustrated. He had just about reached his limit. When Moses went up on the mountain for the last time, it was for God to bless him. Moses did not die, but God took his spirit away. He did reach his land of milk and honey, but it was the ultimate reward, Heaven.

DeaconDean · Dec 10, 2005

There is only two things in your statemwnt that are wrong.

Moses did sin, he directly disobeyed God.

" And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. (Num. 20:7-12)

2. Moses did die just before the children of the Hebrew slaves entered the "Promised Land."

"And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither. So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. (Deut. 34:4-8)

I'm sorry friend but my Bible said that Moses disobeyed God in that God said speak to the rock and it would bring forth water, and Moses struck it with his staff, not once, but twice. And for this he wasn't allowed to enter the Pronised Land. But God in His infinate goodness, let Moses see what He had promised. Moses did die in the land of Moab, and according to the Bible, God himself buried him.

HypnoToad · Dec 10, 2005

How does Num.20:12 NOT contradict your first two sentences?

(Edit: Ok, DD beat me to it)

joyfulthanks · Dec 10, 2005

"I also pleaded with the Lord at that time, saying, O Lord God, You have begun to show Your servant Your greatness and Your strong hand; for what god is there in heaven or on earth who can do such works and mighty acts as Yours? Let me, I pray, cross over and see the fair land that is beyond the Jordan, that good hill country and Lebanon. But the Lord was angry with me on your account, and would not listen to me; and the Lord said to me, Enough! Speak to Me no more of this matter. Go up to the top of Pisgah and lift up your eyes to the west and north and south and east, and see it with your eyes, for you shall not cross over this Jordan. " (Deuteronomy 3:23-27, NASB95)

I can't reconcile this scripture (or those quoted in the above posts) with your belief about Moses.

Blessed Advent!

With love in Christ,
Grace

DeaconDean · Dec 10, 2005

XianJedi said:
How does Num.20:12 NOT contradict your first two sentences?

(Edit: Ok, DD beat me to it)

To whom sir are you refering to?

strikerchris0411 · Dec 10, 2005

DeaconDean said:
To whom sir are you refering to?

i think hes talking about you

HypnoToad · Dec 11, 2005

DeaconDean said:
To whom sir are you refering to?

Is there anyone else in this thread yet with the initials "DD"?

DeaconDean · Dec 11, 2005

Most people believe that Moses was not allowed to cross the Jordan into the Land of Milk and Honey because he had angered God. That is not true.

"Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them." (Num. 20:12)

Moses had done everything that God had told him to do.

God said: "and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water" (Num. 20:8) What did Moses do? "He smote the rock twice." (Num. 20:11)

Moses did not die, but God took his spirit away.

"So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab," (Deut. 34:5)

He did reach his land of milk and honey, but it was the ultimate reward, Heaven.

I don't how you come up with heaven being the land of "milk and honey." My Bible tells me that there will "streets of gold." (Rev. 20:21) There is "pure river of water of life." (Rev. 22:1) And in the middle of the street on "either side of the river is a tree of life." (Rev. 22:2) These are just some of the descriptions of that heavenly city we will live in.

GraceInHim · Dec 11, 2005

Jude said that Satan and the Angel fought over Moses at his end

DeaconDean · Dec 11, 2005

Thank you GraceInHim, Jude 1:9 says:

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,"

Notice it says "the body of Moses" not Moses himself.

GraceInHim · Dec 11, 2005

DeaconDean said:
Thank you GraceInHim, Jude 1:9 says:

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,"

Notice it says "the body of Moses" not Moses himself.

your welcome - but it never says where he was buried - says he was - but if he went up to the mountain and the body was fought over - could not God just as Jesus did with Lazuras, raise him and take him like Enoch?

DeaconDean · Dec 11, 2005

GraceInHim, your correct, it just says he was buried in the land of Moab. While in seminary school, one of my teachers showed me some newspaper clippings from 1967 during the "Six Day War" in which, in some of the lands taken back by Israel during this war, they actually stumbled upon the burial tomb of Moses. But before the team of historians and archeologists could get there, the Israeli military closed and sealed the tomb. Now whether they did or not is to question.

GraceInHim · Dec 11, 2005

DeaconDean said:
GraceInHim, your correct, it just says he was buried in the land of Moab. While in seminary school, one of my teachers showed me some newspaper clippings from 1967 during the "Six Day War" in which, in some of the lands taken back by Israel during this war, they actually stumbled upon the burial tomb of Moses. But before the team of historians and archeologists could get there, the Israeli military closed and sealed the tomb. Now whether they did or not is to question.

hmmmm - kinda like the church they found in Israel dating back to 200ad in Megiddo -

johnd · Dec 11, 2005

As great a man that Moses was, he was just a man (filled with flaws like impulsivity). Remember, he thought eighty years earlier that Israel would follow him when he slew the Egyptian for mistreating a Hebrew.

The fact is, Moses did get stripped of leading Israel into the Promised Land for striking the rock a second time.

Numbers 20:8 Take the rod; and you and your brother Aaron assemble the congregation and speak to the rock before their eyes, that it may yield its water. You shall thus bring forth water for them out of the rock and let the congregation and their beasts drink.

1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;3 and all ate the same spiritual food;4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Jesus died once for all (Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 9:26, 10:2, 10:10). The Rock was to be struck only once because it was a prophetic Messianic pantomime. And Moses by his impetuousness blew this Messianic model. God had no choice but to punish this to preserve the foretelling of the great single sacrifice of his Son.

GraceInHim · Dec 11, 2005

johnd said:
As great a man that Moses was, he was just a man (filled with flaws like impulsivity). Remember, he thought eighty years earlier that Israel would follow him when he slew the Egyptian for mistreating a Hebrew.

The fact is, Moses did get stripped of leading Israel into the Promised Land for striking the rock a second time.

Numbers 20:8 Take the rod; and you and your brother Aaron assemble the congregation and speak to the rock before their eyes, that it may yield its water. You shall thus bring forth water for them out of the rock and let the congregation and their beasts drink.

1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;3 and all ate the same spiritual food;4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Jesus died once for all (Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 9:26, 10:2, 10:10). The Rock was to be struck only once because it was a prophetic Messianic pantomime. And Moses by his impetuousness blew this Messianic model. God had no choice but to punish this to preserve the foretelling of the great single sacrifice of his Son.

wow - that is amazing about the rock never thought of this - I love reading the Bible and following things written which have a meaning with different verses - you are good - will rep when I am able to rep'd out right now.

in His Grace
Gracie :prayer:

johnd · Dec 11, 2005

Thanks. :wave:

johnd · Dec 11, 2005

Many prophets (and even the nation Israel) performed prophetic pantomime (quite often Messianic). For example:

Exodus 17: 8 Then Amalek came and fought against Israel at Rephidim.9 So Moses said to Joshua, Choose men for us, and go out, fight against Amalek. Tomorrow I will station myself on the top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.10 And Joshua did as Moses told him, and fought against Amalek; and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.11 So it came about when Moses held his hand up, that Israel prevailed, and when he let his hand down, Amalek prevailed.12 But Moses hands were heavy. Then they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it; and Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side and one on the other. Thus his hands were steady until the sun set.13 So Joshua overwhelmed Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.
14 Then the Lord said to Moses, Write this in a book as a memorial, and recite it to Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.15 And Moses built an altar, and named it The Lord is My Banner;16 and he said, The Lord has sworn; the Lord will have war against Amalek from generation to generation.

This was not just a battle fought in the wilderness, it was a prophetic Messianic pantomime. Remember, God wanted this written down (verse 14).

The leader of the battle was named Joshua (in anglicanized Greek: Jesus). Also the outcome of the battle depended upon the man atop the rock overseeing the battle. Note that his hands had to be uplifted. He had two men beside him.

Jesus Christ was crucified on a rock called "the skull" (Golgotha) between two men overlooking the Temple Mount where the Fortress Antonia (occupied by the Romans) and the Temple (occupied by the Jewish Priests) were as well as the city of Jerusalem beyond.

His arms were upward nailed to a wooden cross.

Moses held a wooden staff (most likely with both hands). Aaron and Hur may well have held up Moses' hands in one of their own and because of the spirit of the battle possibly held up their free hands like Moses was.

No doubt the three of them from a distance looked like three being crucified together.

GraceInHim · Dec 11, 2005

I see alot of similiarity in Joshsua - Joseph (son of Jacob) and Jesus

Strong in Him · Dec 11, 2005

I have a DVD about the story of Moses (starring Ben Kingsley!) and they show Moses explaining to Joshua that God has said he will not cross into the promised land. Joshua of course is surprised and wants to know why not, and Moses replies that he lashed out at the rock when he should just have spoken God's word. He says that a kingdom cannot be built on anger or frustration but should be built on the word of God. (I can't remember exactly but it's the first explanation of these verses of Scripture that I have ever heard.)

Earlier in the film he says that the people had to be ready to enter the promised land, trusting in the Lord and not in one man. I know it's only some film maker's interpretation, but I think it's brilliant.

I love Moses.

Jimmy West · Dec 11, 2005

DeaconDean said:
"

I don't how you come up with heaven being the land of "milk and honey." My Bible tells me that there will "streets of gold." (Rev. 20:21) There is "pure river of water of life." (Rev. 22:1) And in the middle of the street on "either side of the river is a tree of life." (Rev. 22:2) These are just some of the descriptions of that heavenly city we will live in.

My words were: "HIS land of Milk and Honey". Not, THE land of Milk and Honey.

The Book of Numbers was written 30 years after the remnant had crossed the Jordan. It was written by a man who was part of the second generation of those who God blessed. He wrote it based on the perceptions and memory of those who were there.

The Truth About Moses

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The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

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γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

† Need a lifeguard? Mine walks on water †

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

† Need a lifeguard? Mine walks on water †

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Great is thy faithfulness

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