Jehova Witness and Church of Scientology

I am sorry that anyone would think that belief in Christ as the only Savior of us all is twisted. I praise God to be His servant who craves only His Truth as displayed in Scripture.

Any Jehovah's Witness can respond to the above quotes by showing you their version of the Bible which has removed the verses or by explaining how the words don't mean what they say or by changing the translation to reflect the "True" meaning, which somehow, only the Watchtower has discerned. The Watchtower teaches that there is no Truth apart from them, and that the rest of us non-JW Christians will not be in heaven. We are blasphemers to believe that Christ is God. It is only by consuming our lives with watchtower teaching that we can be saved. Furthermore, they have made such statements in the past as (this is a paraphrase) "It has been made evident that one who studies the Bible alone and apart from Watchtower helps will fall in to darkness."

How? By finding the Truth which the Scripture teaches and which they cover up.

I pray that the Spirit enlightens those who have read this thread to see the Truth played out. The Watchtower organization's twisted interpretation of Scripture, and brainwashing of its followers, is only made obvious by their lack of response when confronted by the Truth of Scripture.

If you know any Jehovah's Witnesses, pray for them (and am praying for you Lared!), because they are likely blinded by their love for the organization to which they feel belong. If you will note, Lared's last post said nothing of being honored to serve either God or Christ, but the organization which is the idol of all practicing Jehovah's Witnesses.

Peace to all who seek it, and may the Lord God Almighty make His grace shine upon you through Jesus Christ our Lord and King,
<><

And don't forget Thomas's words to Christ:

"My Lord and my GOD".

As a side story:
On another forum, I had a disagreement with a fellow that called himself a Christian, but he denied the Deity of Christ. I told him I did not consider people who deny the Deity of Christ a Christian. I showed him all the verses that testify to the deity of Christ, but he ignored them. He even used the old "the word was A God, not God" twist of translation. He didn't like that at all and went on the attack. Kept asking me to confirm him as my Christian brother (I have no idea why it was so important to him - I don't even know him!). But I told him I was sorry, but I couldn't say that in honesty, because I didn't believe it to be true. He eventually wound up telling me to kiss his (you know what) and go to H E L L.

I have a question for the JW?

Where in Matt 24 is the date 1914?

How long is a generation?

Why do translate Jhon 1:1 The word was a god in this verse but when the exact same gramatical set up is found in many other verses in John but yet the JW simple leave it as god and not a god. They only apply the greek grammer rule when the verse points to Jesus. Why is that?

The bible teaches that we are to take of the Lords Super ever 1st day of the week which is Sunday. Why do you only partake of it 1 time a year?

What exactly are you a witness of and why did the JW not take that name until 1931?

According to the WatchTower in Sept 15 1910 p298 It states that you cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible itself; without the books Rusell wrote a person goes into darkness with 2 years. Do you agree with this?

Why do you claim the earth will never be destroyed? see Mat 24:35 and 2Peter 3:10.

Why do JW tell us to have hope to live on the earth when the bible tells to have hope in heaven? See 1 Peter 1:3-3, Col 3:1-2 1John 2:15. Also note that there is only 1 hope according to Eph 4:4

Why do you claim the gospel has not been preached to the whole world? See Col 1:6,23

Why dont you take up collection of money on the 1st day of the week?

I hope this isnt to many questions.

You know why they believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel? Because in 1 Corinthians, it states that the LORD will descend in the second coming, with the voice of an archangel. AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH! sorry about that, maybe I'll make my avatar a pirate.

Thanks Defender! I wondered about that!

3. J.W.s do not mislead or profit. They have no paid clergy class and do not even take up collections or ask for money during their meetings. They give of their time and energy freely to try to be helpful in a spiritual way. There is no monetary reward at all.

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My dad tried to join the Church because he fell in love with a member who said that she would only marry him if he became a member as well. So these two guys started coming to his house twice a week and tutoring him to their beliefs. They told him point blank that he would be expected to will everything he has including his house, to the Church. Pull your head out of the sand man. Your not representing your Church honestly. Speak the truth.

I don't know for sure how God is going to judge the JW's. I try as hard as I can to not pass judgment on others. That's Gods job and I don't want it. I do know that he will judge them fairly. They are a misguided people but does any Church really have it all figured out 100 percent?

P.S. My dad saw the light and decided that the love of a woman wasn't worth what for him would have been living a lie.

My Pastor told us during a Bible study that the J.W.'s believe that in like 1917 Jesus came back and was hiding in a cave sorta speak, until he thought it was the right time to tell everyone that he was back.
HMM..
Anyone heard of this, I might have gotten the date wrong, but the story is true (according to my Pastor)
allie

Originally posted by allieisme
My Pastor told us during a Bible study that the J.W.'s believe that in like 1917 Jesus came back and was hiding in a cave sorta speak, until he thought it was the right time to tell everyone that he was back.
HMM..
Anyone heard of this, I might have gotten the date wrong, but the story is true (according to my Pastor)
allie

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Your pastor is wrong.

JW believe that the second comming of Jesus happened in 1914 and that he set up his kingdom then. He is ruling us now, and will reveal his position any time now. They have changed the date of this relevation a few times now (1925 and 1975 are most prominent). The last change fixed the date on essentially "soon".

HMM..
Well I almost got the 1st date right I wonder if I should ask him, where he heard that Jesus was in hiding

allie

If Iared comes back can he explain exactly what the difference is between Christianity and Jehovahs Witnesses because from what he has said he makes it sound exactly the same.I'm just interested.

As long as Jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus died to take away our sin then i cant see much point in argueing they'll still be going to heaven (wont they?)

"As long as Jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus died to take away our sin then i cant see much point in argueing they'll still be going to heaven (wont they?)"
Only God knows but according to them only 144,000 Jehovah's Witness go to heaven, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
1985, pp. 166-167, 361; Let God be True, p. 121.

and only their church members will be saved, The Watchtower, Feb, 15, 1979, p. 30.

and Jesus was only a perfect man, not God in flesh, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
1985, pp. 306.

posted by jimigold.

As long as Jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus died to take away our sin then i cant see much point in argueing they'll still be going to heaven (wont they?)

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You make good points Project 86. Also, they do not accept the deity of Jesus. This is something that I just can not understand. It is just so obvious that I can't see how they could miss it. They think Jesus was the Angel Michael. But all that being said, they still do indeed believe that Christ died to take away our sins. They are misguided but I am hoping God will forgive them for that but I don't know whether he will or not. Thankfully, we are not the judge. God is and he will judge them fairly.

I can say for sure that I do hope they have salvation. After all, they honor God the best way that they know how to. It can't be easy going door to door and having people slam the door in their faces. I pray that God forgives them for being misguided and that the JW's receive all the rewards that God has waiting for the rest of the Good Shepherds flock. My feeling is that there will be JW's in Heaven but I can't say for sure.

Sorry Simpleton, you are not adequately informed on the beliefs of the JW's. The JW's do not believe in the Diety of Christ and therefore even if they did believe He died to take away sins, it would do no good. It is the Diety of Christ that makes His sacrifice acceptable.

JW's believe in Salvation by WoRKS. THAT is why they are busy knocking on doors and SELLING thier various materials. They accumulate POINTS for this efforet.

See if only 144,000 are going to Heaven, and there are several million JW's, then there is a quandry, yes? So how do they decide who makes it and who gwts cut? Right! Points!

They are not knocking on doors because they love the lost. They are "working" thier way to Heaven.

Asd for as "missing" things JW's are good at that. They miss the point that thier founder Charles Taz Russell was a small time petty crook, and one CONVICTED of Purjury. Now a man who LIES under oath is suspect in his religious teachings, dont you agree?

And no one honors God by rejecting His Son, and refering to Him as "a god", small g. Jesus to them is a god just like "we are all god's". Jesus is no better than you and me. Get a copy of thier Bible, which they rewrote, and see how the matter of Jesus and salvation is treated.

Sorry they are a dark cult and anyone who truly believes what they teach can never go to Heaven. Jesus is the only way to Heaven There is no other way. It is by GRACE(of God) we are saved THROUGH FAITH (in Jesus), and NOT OF WORKS. This is NOT what the JW's believe or teach.

Posted by Gerry.

Sorry Simpleton, you are not adequately informed on the beliefs of the JW's. The JW's do not believe in the Diety of Christ and therefore even if they did believe He died to take away sins, it would do no good. It is the Diety of Christ that makes His sacrifice acceptable.

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Not adequately informed...how so? I stated that JW’s don’t believe in Christ’s Deity. I also said that I did not know whether any JW’s will have salvation. It’s an honest statement. If I said that yes they will have salvation or I am sure that they are going to go to hell, then maybe you could say that I’m misinformed. On the other hand, when I honestly and correctly say that I don’t know, then I’m telling the truth. I don’t see where I could be misinformed there. But I have one single simple question for you at the end of my post in which you can properly inform me of where I am misinformed.

Even if I did know for absolutely certain whether or not any JW's will receive salvation, I would still rather place judgment into the hands of our Lord God. Furthermore, to just say that this group is a cult on a road to Hell is rather lazy and unproductive. It’s much harder to lovingly and patiently explain to people why their path is wrong than it is to stand in judgment of them as though you’re the one who’s going to decide. Let me tell you Gerry, you’re not fit to be the judge and neither am I. Let’s leave the judgment to God.

God has changed me into a loving being. I love almost everyone. I love the JW’s, the Mormons and even the Atheists. I even pray for my enemies. I am this way not by my own righteousness, but by the guidance and grace of God. Yes I am very aware that the JW’s are stumbling in misguided ignorance but I’m sure that Christ loves them just as I’m sure that he will grieve mightily if they are all cast into hell.

You said that I should study the JW’s bible. I have already done so and I would guess quite a bit more thoroughly than you have. I am quite aware of all the points that you made concerning the JW’s. You’re a bit misinformed on a point or two but who’s quibbling. When my Dad decided to become a JW, I studied the JW version of the bible with a vengeance. Knowing that I might well be fighting for my Dad’s soul, I fought as hard as I could to prove to him that he was on the wrong path. A key point to this spiritual battle was whether or not Jesus had Deity. Guess what. Only by the grace of God, I won that battle and I won it without ever saying to my Dad that all JW’s are going to hell. I have found that your “JW’s are all going to Hell”, approach turns people off and closes their minds. I wonder if I would have won this spiritual battle for my Dad, if I had simply taken your lazy and judgmental tactic.

Yes indeed the Deity of Jesus of Nazareth is quite obvious to you and me just as is the Deity of the Holy Spirit. God has made it clear to us. But as you and I well know, it is not so clear to everyone. So I have just one question for you which I hope you will be kind enough to answer for me. After all, I’m just a Simpleton.

Again, you said…

The JW's do not believe in the Diety of Christ and therefore even if they did believe He died to take away sins, it would do no good. It is the Diety of Christ that makes His sacrifice acceptable.

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Yes Gerry, It is Christ’s Deity that makes his sacrifice acceptable. The JW’s believe that Christ was born from an Immaculate Conception. They believe that Jesus is the sinless Lamb of God. They believe just as you do that only by the blood of Christ can any of them have salvation. My question is, where does it say in the scriptures that that's not enough, the Christian must also fully comprehend the Deity of Christ or they are bound for Hell. This simpleton need’s to know where in the scriptures you are drawing this. My mind is open and I'm willing to embrace your point of view but until I see the scripture to back up your statement, I will continue to honestly state that I do not know whether or not any of these folks will receive Gods gift of salvation. Educate me please.

I have talked to the Jehovah's witnesses and it is sad to to say they are going to door to door rubbing in peoples faces the name 'Jehovah" As you all know the original language given to us by our creator was Hebrew. Well sadly what the Jehovah's witnesses don't know is satan manged to disguise himself as an "angel of light" and carry out a name "hovah" which means in Hebrew: to ruin, mischief, destroy which is another name for satan. And they also were ignoring the FACT that the letter "j" didn't come into existence until the early 16th century (that's 1600 yrs after the MashiYAH "Messiah" walked!) the "j" branched off from the Latin "i" witht the dot still overhead. The latin "i" carried an "ee" sound which was carried over from the sound of the Hebrew letter "Y".

- Shalom

Hey Gerry do you have some document to back up that claim about Russle?

I am fixing to teach a class on this group called the JW. I find it interesting that Charles Russle claimed himself to be a prophet. He wrote 7 books originally called the Millennial dawn. He claimed that no one which would include the apostles understood the bible and especially Revealation until he came along. In fact it is said that you have to read his 7 books to be able to unlock the meaning of the bible. Without his books you just wont have a clue. Of Course he predicted the 2nd coming in 1914. Then when it didnt happen he changed it to 1916. Of course it didnt happen then either and he died that year. Then Judge Rutherford took over from there. Now this is not well know but he also wrote a book that it is hard to find these days with good reason. It was called Millions now living will never die. He wrote it in 1920. He says in this book that the mothers should not cry for their boys that died in war because they would be coming back to life in 1925 along with Abraham, Issac and Jacob. He said that the old people would return to their youth. Of course again it did not happen. The JW have made many other perdictions about Aramagedon and every time they have been wrong. Instead of Jehovah Witnesses perhaps they should change their name to Jehovah guessers.

My youngest sister married a JW and she got hooked on them. Today 20 years later, she is a total mess. The elders of that, so called church raped her many times, there is horrible stuff going on behind the scene. I am battling for 10 years now, to help her, to get free, but they teach them that their families does not love or want them. I heard this with my own ears. I went with her the last time to that meetings and sorry to say I nearly vomit (sorry , sorry, sorry) by hearing all the stuff they teach them. They are very good in displaying acts of love to get people fall into their trap. I downloaded from the net lots of stuff to proof to her the falseness of the teachings but there is no one as blind as those who do not want to see.

I am soon going into 7 day of separation to fast and pray for my sister’s soul. Please if anyone have any advice – I am desperate.

There is nothing genuine in the JW teachings and I don’t want to see what is going to happen with them on the Judgment day.

First, The the greeks/Latins then Roman catholics took the
Hebrew letters written by the Creator on the stone tablets (YHWH) and erroniously added the vowels from the hebrew title "Adonai" and "Elohim" coming up with "Yehowih" and "Yahowah" then the Latin "i" carried the sound of "ee" similiar to the hebrew "Y" so then it was spelled "Iehowah" eventually the Germanic "v" branching off from the hebrew sounding "w" spelling it "Iehovah" Then, in the early 16th century the letter "j" came into existance which branched off from the Latin "i" (with the dot still overhead) finally coming up with the "hybrid" JEHOVAH! Well, Satan pulled a real slick one here on
"6 million Witnesses" Why? because the original language our Creator YAHWEH gave us was hebrew and YAHWEH does not change. Every word and name that YAHWEH inspired carries great meaning, also for the purpose of identity.

HOW SATAN DECIEVED THE JEHOVAHS WITNESSES is if you look at a Hebrew dictionary/concordance you will be SHOCKED to discover the name "HOVAH" means: ruin, mischief, perverse thing , very wickidness, destroy!!
(another name for satan).

**Strongs Hebrew concordance # 1943 which is another form of #1942

The JW's know the correct pronunciation of our Creator from the Hebrew tetragrammaton (Greek word meaning 4 letters)that was written on the Stone tablets given to Moses is YAHWEH but they were decieved in keeping the hybrid "Jehovah" because they said more people were familiar with that name in the 14th and 15th century which was brought over by Pope the 10th and Galatinus.

I showed a Jehovah's Witness this information (she was in it close to 4 yrs) and she started to cry and removed herself finally when she seen the meaning of "hovah".

-shalom

You can call me all kinds of names and accuse me of anything you like. But if you say I am a flying elephant you are still wrong. I see you are thetpye who likes to debate and will jump on any slight thing or just plain make one up. You are still in error, and my answer stands. If you read it, I believe you will find it loines up with the Word.

Don't be so quick to jump on people looking for a fight. You have shown yourself to be a name caller and a judge, For your information, I work very hard and I am in no way lazy. But stay on your throne and judge things and people you have no knowledge of, because if you don't you may learn something!

Originally posted by The Simpleton


Not adequately informed...how so? I stated that JW’s don’t believe in Christ’s Deity. I also said that I did not know whether any JW’s will have salvation. It’s an honest statement. If I said that yes they will have salvation or I am sure that they are going to go to hell, then maybe you could say that I’m misinformed. On the other hand, when I honestly and correctly say that I don’t know, then I’m telling the truth. I don’t see where I could be misinformed there. But I have one single simple question for you at the end of my post in which you can properly inform me of where I am misinformed.

Even if I did know for absolutely certain whether or not any JW's will receive salvation, I would still rather place judgment into the hands of our Lord God. Furthermore, to just say that this group is a cult on a road to Hell is rather lazy and unproductive. It’s much harder to lovingly and patiently explain to people why their path is wrong than it is to stand in judgment of them as though you’re the one who’s going to decide. Let me tell you Gerry, you’re not fit to be the judge and neither am I. Let’s leave the judgment to God.

God has changed me into a loving being. I love almost everyone. I love the JW’s, the Mormons and even the Atheists. I even pray for my enemies. I am this way not by my own righteousness, but by the guidance and grace of God. Yes I am very aware that the JW’s are stumbling in misguided ignorance but I’m sure that Christ loves them just as I’m sure that he will grieve mightily if they are all cast into hell.

You said that I should study the JW’s bible. I have already done so and I would guess quite a bit more thoroughly than you have. I am quite aware of all the points that you made concerning the JW’s. You’re a bit misinformed on a point or two but who’s quibbling. When my Dad decided to become a JW, I studied the JW version of the bible with a vengeance. Knowing that I might well be fighting for my Dad’s soul, I fought as hard as I could to prove to him that he was on the wrong path. A key point to this spiritual battle was whether or not Jesus had Deity. Guess what. Only by the grace of God, I won that battle and I won it without ever saying to my Dad that all JW’s are going to hell. I have found that your “JW’s are all going to Hell”, approach turns people off and closes their minds. I wonder if I would have won this spiritual battle for my Dad, if I had simply taken your lazy and judgmental tactic.

Yes indeed the Deity of Jesus of Nazareth is quite obvious to you and me just as is the Deity of the Holy Spirit. God has made it clear to us. But as you and I well know, it is not so clear to everyone. So I have just one question for you which I hope you will be kind enough to answer for me. After all, I’m just a Simpleton.

Again, you said…



Yes Gerry, It is Christ’s Deity that makes his sacrifice acceptable. The JW’s believe that Christ was born from an Immaculate Conception. They believe that Jesus is the sinless Lamb of God. They believe just as you do that only by the blood of Christ can any of them have salvation. My question is, where does it say in the scriptures that that's not enough, the Christian must also fully comprehend the Deity of Christ or they are bound for Hell. This simpleton need’s to know where in the scriptures you are drawing this. My mind is open and I'm willing to embrace your point of view but until I see the scripture to back up your statement, I will continue to honestly state that I do not know whether or not any of these folks will receive Gods gift of salvation. Educate me please.

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Originally posted by lambslove

Jehovah's Witnesses went so far as to make up their own bible, called "New World Translation," that took out all the verses and chapters they don't agree with.

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Yeah kind of like Martin Luther.