DjDan said:
There is already a difference of opinion on this matter...
but what does Christianity teach?
(if you can help be more specific... list the denominations that believe that he has a body.... and then the denominations that believe that he is a spirit, without a resurrected body)
I'm just a little confused when it comes this issue (and the trinity which i wil go on to)
Forget the denominations and what they say, lets look at the facts from scripture.
Our Spiritual Body
A major thing with futurist is the Scriptures teach that Christ was resurrected in the same body in which He died: The very body in which He died was raised from the dead, just as He prophesied (Jn. 2:18-19, 21). As such, it miraculously attested to the truth of His divine mission on earth (Mt. 12:39-40). This is why the tomb and His burial clothing were found empty: His physical body had departed from them (Mt. 28:6; Jn. 20:4-11, 15). The gospels present the resurrected Christ in a material body that could be touched and handled (Lk. 24:39), which still had the wounds of the cross (Jn. 20:27; cf. Rev. 5:6), which could be clung to (Jn. 20:17; Mt. 28:9), and could eat food (Lk. 24:42-43; Jn. 21:11-14).
It was prophesied that Jesus would be resurrected in the very same body in which He died (John. 2:18-19, 21). Jesus is the (only one) God the Father ever promised his body and soul would not see corruption. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)
However there was a (false lie) the Jews tried to get started among the Jews, that Jesus had not risen from the dead.
This would be a good time to look into why Jesus appeared in such a state that he was easily recognizable after his resurrection. The devil, and those who belonged to him, had a plan to conceal the truth that Christ was raised from the dead.
The chief priests and the Pharisees had gone to Pilate and ask for guards to be placed around the tomb of Jesus, for they remembered that our Lord had said He would rise again after three days.
Pilate granted their request, and gave them guards (four men who watched for three hours, then relieved by four men for the next three hours, etc., for the next three days). They also put a seal on the stone. A seal consisted of placing a cord across the stone and securing the ends with a clay stamp, which had an official seal of Rome, if the seal was broken it would be readily apparent.
The problem was that in spite of all these precautions they now had an empty tomb and no explanation except the truth of the resurrection. WHAT TO DO?
The watch reported to the chief priests what had happened. It was at this juncture that the devil used his children to try to destroy the faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. When they had assembled with the elders and taken counsel, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, saying, Tell them, His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept. And if this comes to the governors ears, we will appease him and make you secure. So they took the money and did as they were instructed and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day (Matthew 28:12-15).
We see here the lie that the disciples stole the body of Jesus was commonly reported among the Jews.
However the Lord Jesus continued to appear and teach His followers over the next forty days the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. He gave them, many convincing proofs that He was indeed alive,
It is here that we read about the doubt of Thomas who was indeed also a believer of Jesus.. Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said to him, We have seen the Lord. So he said to them, Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe. And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came the door being shut, and stood in the midst and said, Peace to you! Then He said to Thomas,Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.v. 28 Thomas answered and said to Him,MY LORD AND MY GOD. (John 20::27-28) (emphasis added).
It is very important to see here Thomas did not believe until he saw with his eyes that Jesus was indeed alive. Thomas was a real believer but had his real doubts about the resurrection of Christ. We are not told if he had his doubts because of the false lie that was commonly reported among the Jews. However he had real doubts none the least.
When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning of the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulcher at the rising of the sun.
And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulcher? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. And entering into the sepulcher, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: You seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goes before you into Galilee: there shall you see him, as he said unto you. And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulcher; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not (Mark 16:1-11) Notice they also did not believe.
After that Jesus appeared in another form unto two others, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto those people and they neither believed them (Mark 16:12-13) The Jewish believers struggled with a physical resurrection of Jesus so how could they understand (a resurrection of Jesus in the unseen ream)?
How could the Jews, or we, see or comprehend what God accomplished in the spiritual ream, if Jesus did not REAPPEAR and show Himself in a physical form in the physical ream?
Remember Matthew said, there was a reported among the Jew that the disciples came at night and stole the body of Jesus away while the guards slept.
How could God have shown us the resurrection of His Son without the physical aspect? Everything Jesus did in His earthly ministry was a type, or shadow, of a greater spiritual truth. He fed five-thousand because He is the Bread of Life. He calmed the stormy sea because He is the Prince of Peace. He forgave sin because He is the Savior of the world.
He raised the dead and showed with his own resurrection that He is the Resurrection and the Life. The Old Testament always displays in the material world the greater truth of the spiritual world.
Jesuss death and resurrection in the physical was a picture of our death and resurrection in the spiritual ream. Paul makes this point very clear. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4 The coming life was of the same nature as the death; but the death was not physical, therefore the coming life was not physical.
Paul did not want Christians to keep their eyes on the types and shadow, but to see through the types and shadow to the spiritual truth that lies beyond. Thus Paul could say Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
John speaks the same covenantal truth, when he says. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, (and it doth not yet appear what we shall be): but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)
Notice John said it does not yet appear what they shall be like. If John believed Jesus would return in the same physical resurrected body he would not have said it does not yet appear what they shall be like. John and Paul seem to believe Jesus would not appear in a physical or material fleshly body.
Jesus existed before he came into this literal world without a material body. And he continues to existed in that spiritual, ream without a material fleshly earthly body today.
Our Spiritual Body #2
I dont believe Jesus had any kind of physical body before he came to earth. I believe he was a complete being without a physical body before he came to earth. Remember Jesus told the women at the well that God is a Spirit. And a Spirit does not have to have a physical body in order to be complete.
Adam had that same kind of spiritual body before he sinned. Humanity was created in the image and likeness of God: Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our like-ness. . . And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them (Genesis 1:26-27). Adam and Eve shared the nature and character attributes of God, being a grand representation of divine craftsmanship (Genesis 2:7).
The spiritual nature of Adam and Eve gave them continual access to the abiding presence of God. Only the entrance of something sinister could ruin such an ideal environment.
Adam must have had some very special abilities to tend and keep (all the garden). Than the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it (Genesis 2:15) What do you think, could Adam have had some special abilities that he lost because after he sinned?
And I dont believe Jesus has any kind of physical body in heaven. Again remember what Jesus said about himself to the women at the well. The main reason for Jesus coming in the likeness of our physical bodies was to full the things under the law. But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. (Galatians. 4:4)
The natural offspring of Adam and Eve were no reflection of the image and likeness of God, but instead arrived in the tarnished likeness of their father Adam: God named humanity Adam [man] because he represented the head of the human family. Thus, everyone born into the human family would find his identity in Adam and in the death through sin that he brought into the world (1 Corinthians 15:22; Romans 5:12). The problem of death through sin was universal in its scope and effects: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).
After Adam sinned he became a fleshly living being. Christ then came in the flesh to reverse Adam sin on mankind and restore man back to Gods image. From a human standpoint, no possibility of recovery existed. Only God could restore what had been lost in Adam.
The soiled image and likeness of God had to be restored in the same realm in which it had been lost. Gods solution would be to interject Himself into the physical realm to defeat sin and death through sin in its own arena: But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law (Galatians 4:4). So then as through one transgression there resulted in condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted in justification of life to all men. For through one mans disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many were made righteous (Romans 5:18-19).
The empowering effects of the Cross of Jesus were the human restoration of what had been lost in Adam: What Humanity lost in Adam was purchased and ransomed in Christ.
Resurrection life entered to replace the effects of death through sin (John 5:24; Romans 6:3-5). For since by a man came death, by a man came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:21-22).
Once again the image and likeness of Godand full restoration to the presence of Godwas made possible through the transforming power of the Cross: And just as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (1 Corinthians 15:49).
I think we have to be careful when we start talking about any special abilities Adam may have had before the fall. I know futurists do this a lot. The idea is that the creation is now tainted because of sin. Before the fall, the thought is that the world was perfect. No carnivores, no viruses, no physical death, no earthquakes, no hurricanes, etc. If we start down this path, we end up with an incomplete redemption. We must conclude that there is still salvation to be accomplished to restore all Adam lost. Moreover, we take the focus of redemption off of restoration to Gods presence. The heart of redemption is about relationship with God not what kind of body we will have in heaven.
I hope this will help.
