So you want to be a practicing homosexual Bishop...but its not enough?

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ufonium2

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Defens0rFidei said:
How long before these forces push for their church to have blessed "marriages" of homosexuals?
Here's what you do: The first time a gay couple gets "married" in one of your churches, excommunicate the priest and the "newlyweds" and then burn the church. Overreaction? Maybe. Effective? Absolutely. Notice no gay couples are trying to get married in the Orthodox Church now;)
 
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seebs

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RhetorTheo said:
I don't think a Catholic priest could openly reject the authority of the Pope and be made bishop. Of course, a non-Catholic church can have priests be bishops who reject the authority of the Pope - they wouldn't consider that sin.

What do they consider to be sin, and teach to be sin, that a priest can openly and unrepentantly do and be made bishop?

Nothing.

But then, there are churches that do not necessarily teach that homosexual relationships are sinful. You may well disagree with them (and trust me, I am intimately familiar with all of the arguments on this issue), but it is nonetheless what they teach. Compared to some of the other disputes between churches on details of the faith, I'm not even sure why it's a big deal. I would say that rejecting apostolic succession and the Real Presence in the Eucharist are much, much, more significant disputes. We're used to them now, but I think they're clearly much more significant as questions of salvation and the very nature of the Body of Christ.

But, in some ways, sin is a popularity contest. If enough people accept it, we tend to overlook it. I would probably argue that the most widespread sin today is probably usury, but you never hear about that, because too many people have credit cards to want anything done about it.
 
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nyj

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Here is my question: If this Bishop were to marry his gay "partner" :rolleyes:, how would they reconcile it with Paul's exhortation to Timothy (1 Timothy 3:2) that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife?

He's already made enough of a scandal by being divorced clergy, not exactly a great testament to the Sacrament of Marriage in the first place.
 
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Michelina

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nyj said:
Here is my question: If this Bishop were to marry his gay "partner" :rolleyes:, how would they reconcile it with Paul's exhortation to Timothy (1 Timothy 3:2) that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife?

He's already made enough of a scandal by being divorced clergy, not exactly a great testament to the Sacrament of Marriage in the first place.

Obviously, they don't care.

I am not surprised by anything they say. Since they show their contempt for God's Natural Order, why would they not have contempt for anything else. Fr. John Harvey, founder of Courage, says that most homosexuality is rooted in contempt.
 
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RhetorTheo

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seebs said:
Nothing.

But then, there are churches that do not necessarily teach that homosexual relationships are sinful. You may well disagree with them (and trust me, I am intimately familiar with all of the arguments on this issue), but it is nonetheless what they teach.

Fine. He is Episcopalian. What do the Episcopalians and Anglicans teach? Do they teach homosexual activity is not sinful? If they don't teach that it's sinful, then I don't see the problem with him being made bishop. My understanding is that the Episcopalians believe, rightly or wrongly, that it is sin.
 
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RhetorTheo

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nyj said:
Here is my question: If this Bishop were to marry his gay "partner" :rolleyes:, how would they reconcile it with Paul's exhortation to Timothy (1 Timothy 3:2) that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife?

He's already made enough of a scandal by being divorced clergy, not exactly a great testament to the Sacrament of Marriage in the first place.

Easy. [liberal] You are being to literal. The scripture doesn't mean that a bishop must be married. Roman Catholics have celibate priests. Even in the East, where married men can be priests, the tradition is for celibate bishops. Rather, Paul was simply saying that a person should have no more than one spouse. In his time, the bishops were male and the spouses were of the opposite sex, so he used the word "wife." But surely if Paul were around today, he would have no problem with a gay man having one husband. [/liberal]
 
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kern

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I would be interested in seeing a *rational* explanation of how this incident is going to lead to Catholics needing to meet in caves and catacombs to have Mass. That is extremely unlikely -- as far as prosecution of Catholics goes, this age is a pretty good time to live. Catholics have freedom to worship in the US and many other countries. Catholics are no longer widely considered bad or evil (only a small number of anti-Catholics believe that).

-Chris
 
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Michelina

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kern said:
I would be interested in seeing a *rational* explanation of how this incident is going to lead to Catholics needing to meet in caves and catacombs to have Mass. That is extremely unlikely -- as far as prosecution of Catholics goes, this age is a pretty good time to live. Catholics have freedom to worship in the US and many other countries. Catholics are no longer widely considered bad or evil (only a small number of anti-Catholics believe that). -Chris

I believe the poster was writing about the future, Chris.
 
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geocajun

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Michelina said:
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
I just felt that should be quoted. Good emphasis :)
 
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Bonaventura

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nyj said:
Here is my question: If this Bishop were to marry his gay "partner" :rolleyes:, how would they reconcile it with Paul's exhortation to Timothy (1 Timothy 3:2) that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife?

Well if you're a lesbian bishop, then it's not an issue! :p :rolleyes:

For a male they'll say that was "cultural" and therefore irrelevant. There's always a way to dance around, ignore or twist Sacred Scripture to suit your own agenda!
 
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Dominus Fidelis

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RhetorTheo said:
I don't think they mean that Catholicism will be banned. They mean that Catholicism will be forced by law to be ... well, non-Catholic, and to experience real Catholicism you'll have to go underground.

Yes, that is my point, thanks.
 
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La Bonita Zorilla

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Pardon me, but I have never posted on OBOB forum before. I tried to check rules and wish to follow protocol but didn't find specific info so forgive me if this sounds weird.

(Oh, and for identification purposes I am a Methodist though I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic School in Grades 1-8. Luckily our family was too poor to send us to Catholic High Schools.)

There seems to be much discussion of the actions of other denominations in this thread, most specifically Episcopals and Methodists. Why not just say, "Well, we're Catholic, we don't do as they do," and let it go?

And don't some of you think the alarmism and melodrama is a little too much? I mean, really, I like histronics as much as the next person, but isn't this just a little over the top? Catacombs? Secret Mass? Seems a little odd to me, but, hey, what do I know?

It seems to me worrying about policies of other churches is hardly a useful pursuit, but, I would sure be willing to listen if someone would explain this view.

I am also a sociologist and presently preparing a grant proposal for research on reactions to social change. I must say I have read theoretical models and seen their application to reaction of white Southerners toward the civil rights revolution-and the pattern of religious conservatives' reaction to the acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people is in exact paralell to that.
 
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Roald

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La Bonita Zorilla said:
It seems to me worrying about policies of other churches is hardly a useful pursuit, but, I would sure be willing to listen if someone would explain this view.
Hopefully, we are always working towards being one Church, so what other churches do is important to us.

I am also a sociologist and presently preparing a grant proposal for research on reactions to social change. I must say I have read theoretical models and seen their application to reaction of white Southerners toward the civil rights revolution-and the pattern of religious conservatives' reaction to the acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people is in exact paralell to that.
I think that people generally respond negatively when their views are challenged by a changing society. What is important is why they hold their views. Is it because of some narrow-minded bigotry or because of an adherence to the clear command of reason and of God.
 
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Protoevangel

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Momzilla said:
Also, I have seen lengthy explanations regarding Paul's true intent in Corinthians and Romans, arguing that Paul was not against homosexuality per se, but rather against sexual practices in pagan temples. I have not come across any criticisms of such reasoning.

Any assistance that can be provided will be much appreciated--I really want to understand God's word on this, because it may require me to leave my current church.
1 Corinthians 6:9: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders'"

The word used here for "homosexual offenders" is Arsenokoites - This is a word comes from the "arsen", (male) and "koite" (bed or coitus), and simply means "one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite, a homosexual". Nothing in the context indicates that it means anything other than exactly that.


______________________________________________________________________
Edit: Oops, I missed a whole page of replies. Sorry if this was already answered.
 
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Protoevangel

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La Bonita Zorilla said:
It seems to me worrying about policies of other churches is hardly a useful pursuit, but, I would sure be willing to listen if someone would explain this view.
Roald said:
Hopefully, we are always working towards being one Church, so what other churches do is important to us.
My answer is similar to Roald's. We are all of the Body of Christ. What hurts one part of the body hurts the body as a whole.
 
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