A serious discussion on...masturbation

"1 Corinthians 6: 17-20
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Ephesians 5: 3-4
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

1 Thessalonians 4: 1-8
Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. "

All these references to sexual immorality are about having sex with another person. Remember, in those days, it was common for people to have sex with cultic prostitutes. It is not about masturbation, at all, IMO.

Christina

What causes someone to maturbate? Lust.

"Principles:
1. Your body is meant for the Lord, not sexual immorality."

Yes indeed. And Paul states that we should not have sex with prostitutes as an explanation of what he means.

"2. You were bought at a price, honor God with your body, sexual immorality is a sin against your body, which is the temple of the Holy Spirit, the place in which God dwells. "

Yes, do not join the temple of the Holy Spirit with a prostitute.

"3. Do not even have a HINT of sexual immorality among you. "

Among you as a congregation. He's not talking about masturbation at all.

"4. It is God's will that you be sanctified, that you learn to control your own body in a way that holy and honorable, not in lust. God called us to be holy. "

Yes, in abstaining from having sex with other people outside marriage.

"Questions :
1. Does masturbation master you? It is stopping you from allowing your body to be used for the Lord? "

The Scriptures aren't about masturbation. Excessive masturbation is a problem, as we shouldn't let anything MASTER us. Moderation is okay.


"2. Do you honor God with your temple/body? "

I don't think many christian guys who are single, go round fornicating with prostitutes.

"3. Do you consider masturbating (which includes lustful thougths) to be a hint of sexual immorality? "

Lust is necessary for marital sex! Lust is a problem when acted upon. If a guy lusts after a certain woman, that is adultery of the heart. What if a guy has a fantasy woman? I think that is okay.

"4. When you touch, do you show control of your body?
Do you show honor to God when lust takes control of your body?"

IMO, you're way over the top, and taking Scripture out of context. You're taking passages about sexual immorality with prostitutes, and applying it to masturbation.

If a Christian masturbates once a week, say, I see no problem at all. It's just relief of sexual tension.

True spirituality seeks balance, I believe. It doesn't go for total abstention, as one extreme, or 'anything goes' at the other.

To all the single Christian guys on this board, beware the leaven of the Pharisees.

O Foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you?

Christina

Originally posted by Kelier
What causes someone to maturbate? Lust.

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Keiler,

What causes babies to be made? Lust!

Christina

Originally posted by Kelier
What causes someone to maturbate? Lust.

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Do you lust after chocolate? Do you lust after a good back scratching?

Masturbation provides pleasure and that is reason enough. The fact that it is SEXUAL pleasure is what certain people can't deal with.

"All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."

"among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people."

"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable"



You say :

All these references to sexual immorality are about having sex with another person. Remember, in those days, it was common for people to have sex with cultic prostitutes. It is not about masturbation, at all, IMO.

Christina, you are horribly mistaken. If this were not a biblical issue, I would not make a big deal about it. These verses are NOT just about marriage. It covers

1. sinning against your body (don' need to be married to do that).
2. honoring God with your body (don't need to be married to do that).
3. not allowing a hint of sexual immorality in your life (don't need to be married to do that).
4. controlling your body in an honorable way (don't need to be married to do that).

You are a fool if you think these verses deal only with married people, on the subject of temple prostitues.

Originally posted by ChristinaMarie


Keiler,

What causes babies to be made? Lust!

Christina

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I guess that would depend on the situation, but in a marriage it isn't as simple as lust. Many married couples have sex because they love each other and not simply just because of the sexual attraction.

There is a HUGE difference between sex in marriage and masturbation. There is also a reason Paul said it was better to marry than to burn with passion!!!

Originally posted by Ray K


Do you lust after chocolate? Do you lust after a good back scratching?

Masturbation provides pleasure and that is reason enough. The fact that it is SEXUAL pleasure is what certain people can't deal with.

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Considering you are not a Christian, I know why you feel this way. There is nothing wrong with sexual pleasure at all, as long as it is within the confines of marriage.
The marriage bed is undefiled.

Dave,

This is Young's Literal Translation of 1 Cor 6

"15 Have ye not known that your bodies are members of Christ? having taken, then, the members of the Christ, shall I make [them] members of an harlot? let it be not!
16 have ye not known that he who is joined to the harlot is one body? `for they shall be -- saith He -- the two for one flesh.'
17 And he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit;
18 flee the whoredom; every sin -- whatever a man may commit -- is without the body, and he who is committing whoredom, against his own body doth sin.
19 Have ye not known that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own,
20 for ye were bought with a price; glorify, then, God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

Note verse 16. What's it about? Going to prostitutes, but you use it to BASH people by saying it's about masturbation.

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees

Christina

Originally posted by Kelier


I guess that would depend on the situation, but in a marriage it isn't as simple as lust. Many married couples have sex because they love each other and not simply just because of the sexual attraction.

There is a HUGE difference between sex in marriage and masturbation. There is also a reason Paul said it was better to marry than to burn with passion!!!

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Again, Scripture is being twisted to condemn masturbation. Paul was writing about boyfriends and girlfriends. It's better for them to marry, if they cannot keep their hands off each other. It has NOTHING to do with masturbation at all.

Christina

Let me ask a question here.

Is lust a sin?

Originally posted by ChristinaMarie
Dave,

This is Young's Literal Translation of 1 Cor 6

"15 Have ye not known that your bodies are members of Christ? having taken, then, the members of the Christ, shall I make [them] members of an harlot? let it be not!
16 have ye not known that he who is joined to the harlot is one body? `for they shall be -- saith He -- the two for one flesh.'
17 And he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit;
18 flee the whoredom; every sin -- whatever a man may commit -- is without the body, and he who is committing whoredom, against his own body doth sin.
19 Have ye not known that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own,
20 for ye were bought with a price; glorify, then, God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

Note verse 16. What's it about? Going to prostitutes, but you use it to BASH people by saying it's about masturbation.

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees

Christina

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This is from the NASB :

The Body Is the Lord's

"All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!
Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH." But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body."

I fully realize that it talks about prostitutes. Paul mentions them because at that time, and in that place, prostitution was the visible form of sexual immorality. I also realized that masturbation is not specifically mentioned in the bible. So what am I to do with that? Well.. I believe the word of God is a good spot to find an answer, so I take bible verses dealing with things that are sexually immoral, and I ask myself if masturbating is considered to be sinful. I conclude yes. Why? Because of how I showed you above. You think its great because you think a man should be albe to have sex for a long time, and not quit early because of premature [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

If you touch, fine, have fun. All things are permissible right? But remember that all things are NOT beneficial. I believe that it harms a man, and even a woman. If masturbation for a man was ONLY about release, well I have news for you. Men have a cycle just like women do. A man will [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in his sleep naturally. The body will do the releasing on its own without any help. So that out the door. And like that other guy said, masturbating will not take away the quick ability for a man to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. That is purely circumstancial.

I have a desire to please God, and to honor him with my body. I have examined what I think when I touch, and I know it's not right. For me, I am ABSOLUTELY certain it is sin. And being a man, and talking with other men, sexual stimulation comes from sexual thoughts. And for the unmarried person, a sexual thought that turns into sexual stimulation, then masturbation, is both sexually immoral and sin. This should be fleed from.

Originally posted by Mandy
Let me ask a question here.

Is lust a sin?

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Yes, lust is a sin. Did you really need someone to answer that?

"I have a desire to please God, and to honor him with my body. I have examined what I think when I touch, and I know it's not right. For me, I am ABSOLUTELY certain it is sin. And being a man, and talking with other men, sexual stimulation comes from sexual thoughts. And for the unmarried person, a sexual thought that turns into sexual stimulation, then masturbation, is both sexually immoral and sin. This should be fleed from"

Dave,

Fine. I have no problem with you taking this position for yourself. Whatever is not of faith, is sin.

The problem comes when you then apply it to everyone else as well.

I used oral sex and contraception, in marriage, as examples of what could be sexual immorality in marriage. I believe it is up to the couple to work things out for themselves. Most Protestant Christians take this view. So, why do singles get lambasted about masturbation? Can't they work it out for themselves?

It's hypocritical to allow this for couples, but not for singles, IMO.

Christina

Originally posted by DaveKerwin



Yes, lust is a sin. Did you really need someone to answer that?

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Yes I did.

My point is, if something is done out of lust, speaking outside the context of marriage of course, it is sin, period.

Originally posted by ChristinaMarie
I used oral sex and contraception, in marriage, as examples of what could be sexual immorality in marriage. I believe it is up to the couple to work things out for themselves. Most Protestant Christians take this view. So, why do singles get lambasted about masturbation? Can't they work it out for themselves?

It's hypocritical to allow this for couples, but not for singles, IMO.

Christina

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Christina, first off, let this not separate us in the faith, we can embrace each other's differences, amen?

This is the reason why I do not see it as hypocritical:

God made sexuality under ONE circumstance - one man, one woman, one flesh, for life. Under no other circumstances is sexuality free to decide for oneself, whatever they want. I am unable to decide, as a single person. I am able to decide as a married person, because sex is now allowed.

I am one man, no woman, half flesh, temporarily. I can't just work this out by myself (no pun intended, lol).

oh man, anyways, I think it wrong for me, abosolutely, and because I see no reason its right for other single people, I must conclude it's wrong for them too. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Consider this:

There are 613 commandments in the Old Testament Law.

Not one is about masturbation. If masturbation were a sin, would not there have been an OT commandment not to do it?

Just something to consider

Christina

Originally posted by ChristinaMarie
Consider this:

There are 613 commandments in the Old Testament Law.

Not one is about masturbation. If masturbation were a sin, would not there have been an OT commandment not to do it?

Just something to consider

Christina

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You know, that's actually a very good point.

Maybe masturbation was going to be #614 but they ran out of parchment. Or maybe they were *ahem* preoccupied at the time.

Originally posted by JeTmAn
You, sir, are guilty of the evasion you accuse me of. You have presented no proof that masturbation is a natural activity, like breathing or eating or the flow of blood.

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OK, Einstein, I did a Google search on "animal masturbation". I recommend that you do NOT do this as some of the links will offend your sensibilities.

The first link:
http://www.allaboutsex.org/animalswhomasturbate.html

It lists the following animals caught stimulating themselves sexually:

chimps & bonobos
spider monkeys
baboons
elephants
porcupines
dolphins
red deer

Here's an article that talks about caring for monkeys and mentions masturbation: http://www.intournet.net/exotic/info2.html

Here's a veterinary article that discusses cats and dogs occasionally masturbating: http://www.amcpets.com/neuro3.html

Here's more stories: http://www.bizarremag.com/ask/animals.html#Anchor-What's-47857

http://www.journalism.sfsu.edu/www/pubs/gater/spring96/feb13/12.html

There. I have done the 10 minutes of internet research to make the point. You were wrong. Masturbation is natural. While it is not a *required* activity like "breathing or eating or the flow of blood", it is certainly natural and hsa been observed in many different species of animals.

However, I understand your religious compulsion to maintain that masturbation is an unnatural act in the face of the evidence clearly indicating otherwise.