Why isn't the Limited Atonement Doctrine not taught anymore?

MeekOne said:

Just one question...

Why did Christ die if all are already saved?

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Now, that is a good point.

Edial said:

Do you have another label for me? Or just an insult will do?

Ed

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Leave off the victim's role Ed, it's a cheap tactic.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

kw5kw said:

Now, that is a good point.

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Thank you, my dearly loved brother!

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

All are not saved.

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My point exactly.

MeekOne said:

My point exactly.

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What was the difference between you, and another who rejects God?

Were you better than the other one?

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

What was the difference between you, and another who rejects God?

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There is no greater sin than one who rejects the Gospel of Christ. The difference is that I accepted the Gospel and live by it.

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

Were you better than the other one?

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In God's eyes, definitely. As I said before, God knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him....long before time began.

Let's stick to the meaning of the word MANY, not a theology. You are explaining a theology by using my illustration. Second half of your message is a theology based that of the fact that Christ died for some.
Take "Christ died for a very large number of people" as an absolute statement. Forget the theology for a moment. What do you see now?

MeekOne said:

There is no greater sin than one who rejects the Gospel of Christ. The difference is that I accepted the Gospel and live by it.

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What made you accept the Gospel?

MeekOne said:

In God's eyes, definitely. As I said before, God knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him....long before time began.

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So, you had a righteousness or goodness that the other person did not have?

Augustine, are you reading the posts?

DIANA, let's try to keep things in context.

It has been asserted that "many", means....ALL of humanity

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Incorrect. It has been stated that MANY means a large number. Only. Please read the posts again. Slowly. Otherwise we are not on the "same plane".

Maybe if you adopt a more amicable disposition, you will not receive these posts.

MeekOne said:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

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The few will enter through the narrow gate. That is, a small amount will enter.
Agree. (Unless you want to state somthing else).

Thanks,
Ed

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

It is when in the context of the whole of humanity, which happened to be the context of the discussion.

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And in other cases it can imply SOME. I am asking you to take this word as an absolue value. Not in the context. Let's try that.

DIANAC said:

Let's stick to the meaning of the word MANY, not a theology. You are explaining a theology by using my illustration. Second half of your message is a theology based that of the fact that Christ died for some.
Take "Christ died for a very large number of people" as an absolute statement. Forget the theology for a moment. What do you see now?

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May I ask who is the "You" you are addressing here please? Thanks

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

What made you accept the Gospel?

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It's truth.

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

So, you had a righteousness or goodness that the other person did not have?

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I did not say that, you did. I do not profess to know why God chose me, I just know that He did.

Yeah, and you turn around and expect cast iron literal, explicit language for Election and Limited Atonement.

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and then

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:

You have said that Limited Atonement is nowhere in the Scriptures. Do you deny that?

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You use this following example as a response to try to justify what you said?

From your post #32;

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As for Calvinism, and the doctrine that Jesus died only for the elect (clearly defining that those who are damned were created for that purpose), I don't find it anywhere either, so with them I agree.

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The statements you made were that I expect you to provide explicit language, and that it's nowhere in the Scriptures. Now, I don't find it there. Did I say that it doesn't exist there? No. In terms of Jesus' death, I do agree that it was for all mankind, just as Jesus never refused anyone, but rather He bid them come. As for who will receive atonement on His behalf, that will be limited. The Word is very clear that not all will be saved. It is also very clear as to why His death will not atone for their sins. Did I say I expect anything of you? No. But I will now.

I expect you to respect the fact that I'm not interested in playing games with you. You have neither shown where I said that I expect you to prove it with cast iron, explicit languge. You have not shown where I flat out said it doesn't exist there, just that I haven't seen it. Further, you have only used a flimsy example to try to prove your point and provide yourself with justification, and have not recanted or repented. Just because I don't find something doesn't mean it's not there. Salvation can't be "found," it must be revealed. Though it can't be found, it is available nonetheless. Just because I don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. God can't be "seen," but that by no means determines that He is not there. He is.

You've proven nothing with the notable exception that you like to play around with people's words to prove your point. For the last time, AwasC, I'm not interested in your games. It's not about proving "I'm right, you're wrong" but about learning more about the Word and growing in the faith. You are not conducive to either of those things. From this point forward, I will merely ignore your posts and replies to me, as our conversing only proves to be exceedingly fruitless. I'm not interested in wasting my time, your time, or the time of those reading along, which is all these types of posts do.

I will, however, clear up one discrepency that you put forth, for the sake of my brethren. I stated that I am interested in discussing this fruitfully with my brethren. You turned around and said:

Semipelagian is a name for the philosophy you and the others you call "brethren" subscribe to.

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What foolishness! This only serves to show that it's all about scoring points for you. For the sake of my brethren, I'll point out that the brethren I'm interested in talking with are those who do NOT subscribe to your label of Semipelagian. I have been striving to talk with kw5kw and littleapologist, and I'm greatly looking forward to talking with MeekOne. I consider them my brethren, and unless you consider all of them semipelagian, you've spoken, once again, in error.

You see, AwasC, I don't count my brethren the same as you count yours, it would seem. I don't have to be in agreement with them on this issue. We have to be in unity of Spirit on the essential doctrines of Christ, and this is not one of them. Belief in Calvinism ≠ salvation. Belief in Jesus by faith = salvation. And all those who are cleansed by the atoning blood of the Lamb are my brethren! Even **gasp** Calvinists. Go figure...

As for responding to the rest of this it is, again, a moot point. I don't wish to become a stumbling stone to those reading along with silly arguments, volleying for points, and forsaking the things of the Spirit just to have a discussion with you that will come to naught and be in vain. That being said, I'll now bid you goodbye.

In His care, HITR

edited to add: I've used up all of my time and have to get back to teaching classes. I'll be back to clarify and continue later tonight. And ALSO, as I just added in the above commentary, I just couldn't leave out littleapologist.

[move] [/move]

[pong]Just a little comic relief there! [/pong]

Too funny...ok, I needed that before I got back to teaching. Thanks for the light humor, sister, it was just the thing...

Love o' Jesus, HITR