What you will do and feel if there's no rapture ?

Palatka44 · Mar 12, 2004

Ok, Let's look at a few things.
Before Noah finished the ark he had tribulation yet remained faithful.
Hebrews 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
2 Peter 2:5
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Now being a "preacher of Righteousness" Noah had to get a lot of tribulation. Just imagine how he was recieved by a race that never saw rain yet Noah is preaching that God is going to destroy the Earth by rain. A race that never respected any law but that of the mark of Cain. Basicly they were a law unto themselves. They did what ever they wanted and Noah preached of the coming flood because of the violence in the earth.
Then 120 years later, Noah went into the ark and God shut the door. There would be no one else saved for the wrath of God is now coming down as rain.
So as it was in those days the righteous will have tribulation, yes and even today a greater tribulation such as was never seen before. Noah kept faith through his tribulation period but Lot almost was lost.
Luke 17:28-30
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Before Lot was taken out of Sodom he and his family were opressed. And when Lot was ready to defend the visitors he was willing to give up his own daughters to save those messagers from the mobs. Lot's tribulation seems to me was worse then Noah's because Lot was in apostasy. A righteous soul but vexed by the things that Sodom had to offer.
2 Peter 2:6-9
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
As soon as Lot was clear of the city down came the wrath of God upon the evil citizens of Sodom.
Unlike Noah, Lot had willingly lived among the wikedness of Sodom. His tribulation was greater than Noah's because of this.

Now my friends please know that God will have to repent to Noah and to Lot if He should take this present Church out before the Greatest Tribulation the world has yet to see.
We have only one verse to hold onto with all of our hearts and that is this,
Romans 5:8-9
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This is God's wrath that we are saved from. Just as Noah was locked into the ark and Lot was taken out of the city so too will the Church be taken out before God's wrath is poured out on this world.
2Peter 2:9
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
So IMO we will be delivered after the "Great Tribulation" and before God's wrath is released.

FreeinChrist · Mar 12, 2004

Palatka44 said:
Now being a "preacher of Righteousness" Noah had to get a lot of tribulation. Just imagine how he was recieved by a race that never saw rain yet Noah is preaching that God is going to destroy the Earth by rain. A race that never respected any law but that of the mark of Cain. Basicly they were a law unto themselves. They did what ever they wanted and Noah preached of the coming flood because of the violence in the earth.
Then 120 years later, Noah went into the ark and God shut the door. There would be no one else saved for the wrath of God is now coming down as rain.
So as it was in those days the righteous will have tribulation, yes and even today a greater tribulation such as was never seen before.

Point one - the church has seen trials and tribulations since the 1st advent. Pretrib has never taught that we will be spared persecution on earth, just that we will be spared the wrath of God.

Point 2 - about Noah. Note that Noah went into the ark, the animals entered to him, and ... 7 days later, the floods overwhelmed the earth. Makes me pause and think...hmmm 7 days from entering into the ark and the floods overwhelm...like the 70th week of Daniel. ^_^

Gen 7:1 Then the LORD said to Noah, "Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you {alone} I have seen {to be} righteous before Me in this time.Gen 7:2 "You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female;Gen 7:3 also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.Gen 7:4 "For after seven more days, I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will blot out from the face of the land every living thing that I have made."Gen 7:5 Noah did according to all that the LORD had commanded him.Gen 7:6 Now Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth.Gen 7:7 Then Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him entered the ark because of the water of the flood.Gen 7:8 Of clean animals and animals that are not clean and birds and everything that creeps on the ground,Gen 7:9 there went into the ark to Noah by twos, male and female, as God had commanded Noah.Gen 7:10 It came about after the seven days, that the water of the flood came upon the earth.

Point 3 - Noah was removed from the area designated to be destroyed. God didn't say he would destroy the ocean or fish...but what was on the land and breathed air. This is easier to see if you look up the words in Hebrew.
Gen 6:7 The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them."
Gen 6:17 "Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

So my key point is this - Noah was in the ark, safe, for the 7 days...not in the area to be destroyed. Those who come to Christ during the Tribulation have no such safety...for they will be beheaded. No - Noah wasn't 'removed' from the earth ...but he was in a safe place in the ark. But the Tribulation is a trial to come over all the earth...and includes the seas and sealife.

Lady Goodnews · Mar 13, 2004

Palatka44 said:
Ok, Let's look at a few things.
Before Noah finished the ark he had tribulation yet remained faithful.
Hebrews 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
2 Peter 2:5
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Now being a "preacher of Righteousness" Noah had to get a lot of tribulation. Just imagine how he was recieved by a race that never saw rain yet Noah is preaching that God is going to destroy the Earth by rain. A race that never respected any law but that of the mark of Cain. Basicly they were a law unto themselves. They did what ever they wanted and Noah preached of the coming flood because of the violence in the earth.
Then 120 years later, Noah went into the ark and God shut the door. There would be no one else saved for the wrath of God is now coming down as rain.
So as it was in those days the righteous will have tribulation, yes and even today a greater tribulation such as was never seen before. Noah kept faith through his tribulation period but Lot almost was lost.
Luke 17:28-30
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Before Lot was taken out of Sodom he and his family were opressed. And when Lot was ready to defend the visitors he was willing to give up his own daughters to save those messagers from the mobs. Lot's tribulation seems to me was worse then Noah's because Lot was in apostasy. A righteous soul but vexed by the things that Sodom had to offer.
2 Peter 2:6-9
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
As soon as Lot was clear of the city down came the wrath of God upon the evil citizens of Sodom.
Unlike Noah, Lot had willingly lived among the wikedness of Sodom. His tribulation was greater than Noah's because of this.

Now my friends please know that God will have to repent to Noah and to Lot if He should take this present Church out before the Greatest Tribulation the world has yet to see.

We have only one verse to hold onto with all of our hearts and that is this,
Romans 5:8-9
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This is God's wrath that we are saved from. Just as Noah was locked into the ark and Lot was taken out of the city so too will the Church be taken out before God's wrath is poured out on this world.
2Peter 2:9
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
So IMO we will be delivered after the "Great Tribulation" and before God's wrath is released.

Hi Palatka44,

Excellent analogy! Jesus is the ARK, He is building His Church now during tribulation/Gates of hell (Matt.16:18), when it is finished (i.e. the last one, written in the Lamb's book of life, from the foundation of the world, get saved) ENTER IN, God will SHUT THE DOOR, and rain down judgment and destruction, upon the ungodly!

Compare...

Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, "went in" male and female of ALL flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord SHUT HIM IN.

The foolish virgins...

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom Came; and they that were READY "went in" with Him to the marriage: AND THE DOOR WAS SHUT.

11 AFTERWARD came also the "other" virgins, saying Lord, Lord, Open to us.

12 But He answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Even Beginners Sunday School students, would understand those things (provided they have not learned dispensationalism)!

Lady Goodnews

rollinTHUNDER · Mar 13, 2004

Lady Goodnews said:
The Beast, that ascendeth out of the 'bottomless pit" is Satan, the SAME Beast that "ascendeth" out of the "bottomless pit" in (Rev. 17:8,11), that goeth into perdition.

Lady Goodnews

It appears that you are tripping over a false assumption, that the beast is Satan/dragon. I would advise you to first prove this to yourself with scripture. Then you can prove it to me, and we can continue. But it would be a waste of your time and mine, to continue on, building theories out of false perceptions, misconceptions and assumptions. There's no telling where it will lead us, but we can be sure that it won't be reality. This only leads to more questions, not answers.

Lady Goodnews · Mar 13, 2004

rollinTHUNDER said:
It appears that you are tripping over a false assumption, that the beast is Satan/dragon. I would advise you to first prove this to yourself with scripture. Then you can prove it to me, and we can continue. But it would be a waste of your time and mine, to continue on, building theories out of false perceptions, misconceptions and assumptions. There's no telling where it will lead us, but we can be sure that it won't be reality. This only leads to more questions, not answers.

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

I respectfully agree to discontinue our discussion!

However, I was NOT trying to prove anything to you. I merely suggested you use your Bible and the Scriptures, to see If what I said was true, and besides...

That YOUR FAITH should not stand in "the wisdom of men," but in the power of God (1 Cor. 2:5).

Lady Goodnews :wave:

rollinTHUNDER · Mar 13, 2004

Lady Goodnews said:
Hi rollinTHUNDER,

I respectfully agree to discontinue our discussion!

Otay, as you wish. God bless! :wave:

Palatka44 · Mar 13, 2004

It has been said that the wheat and the tares look identical as both plants grow together.
Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
However as we read verse 27 the tares are easly recognized. So the reason that the tares are not taken out before the harvest was to protect the roots of the wheat. God is not going to remove anybody until His Church has good strong root and when the harvest is ready.
It is also said that at harvest time the wheat bows it's head and the tares remain tall and prowd. In this case the Church will be humble at harvest time.
Please note that in this parable, the end of the wheat and the tares is at harvest time. I honostly think that it might just be possible that if the Church does not humble itself it just might have to contend till the end.
Be prepared Church, we are in for the ride of our lives. Prepare the way of the Bridegroom repent and humble yourselves, seperate yourselves from the tares (world), depart from them that have no oil and let's trim our lamps because we are approaching the mindnight hour.

Konnie · Mar 13, 2004

God deceived us, pre-trib rapture was wrote in the Bible!

FreeinChrist · Mar 13, 2004

A big problem I have with this interpretation (of the wheat and the tares) is that we are not judged as a church but as individuals.

Palatka44 · Mar 13, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
A big problem I have with this interpretation (of the wheat and the tares) is that we are not judged as a church but as individuals.

Then Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekel and the rest who followed God's Word did not suffer the invasion of Judah by Babylon. Fact is that those that are living righteous before God today will suffer also. God will use those that are living after Him to preach righteousness to those that are not living godly. Lets face it, if we are living for Him we have a job to do during the grate tribulation. Do not fear what God has set you aside for.

rollinTHUNDER · Mar 13, 2004

Wheat & Tares. Very interesting indeed. What do you think about this possibility?

Matthew 13: (KJV)
(26)But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
The blade springs up (rapture of the wise virgins), as a type of first fruits (Ex.34:22/James 1:18/Rev.14:4). Then after the blade springs up, suddenly the beast and his kingdom rise to power.

(27)So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Wise virgins wonder how all the tares appeared, which are hindering the wheat from being harvested in a timely manner, for the wheat and tares look the same until harvest time.

(28)He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Servants (wise virgins) want to gather the wheat (foolish virgins), but that job belongs to the reapers (angels).

(29)But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Still too soon to tell the difference between the wheat (lukewarm) and the tares (those of the world).

(30)Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
The tares will be separated from the wheat when they take the mark of the beast, meanwhile, the wheat will be beheaded for refusing to take the mark and as they are gathered into the barn, these are the souls of those who are seen under the altar in the temple of heaven.

Exodus 34:22 - And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

1 Corinthians 15:23 - But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

James 1:18 - He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Revelation 14:4 - These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

postrib · Mar 15, 2004

From post # 82 in this thread:

". . . the Church be taken out before God's wrath is poured out on this world . . . "

No scripture says that the saints will be raptured before the vials of wrath occur (Revelation 16). Just as neither Lot nor Noah were raptured into heaven before God's wrath against Sodom or the flood, so the church will not be raptured into heaven before God's wrath in the seven vials. Instead, Jesus promises a blessing to the faithful saints who are still on the earth during the sixth vial because by that time He still hasn't yet come as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Before the vials of wrath are poured out, faithful saints could be called by God to shut themselves in protected places on the earth which had been prepared beforehand (Isaiah 26:20-21), just like Noah was called to shut himself in the ark prepared before the flood (Genesis 7:1).

The scriptures don't say that there will first be a future appearance of Christ to resurrect and rapture believers before the vials (Revelation 16), and then a subsequent appearance with believers after the vials. Instead, they refer to a single future appearance of Christ, which we do not see until Revelation 19, after the vials. There's no third coming.

The pre-wrath view has quite a deal in common with the pre-trib view. For three examples:

1. Both the pre-trib and pre-wrath views think that the church must be raptured in order to not be appointed to wrath, something which the scriptures do not support.

2. Both the pre-trib and pre-wrath views require two separate future appearances of Christ, something which the scriptures do not support.

3. Both the pre-trib and pre-wrath views employ many of the same popularized though unsupported interpretations of Daniel 9:24-27.

Therefore, the pre-wrath view may be considered as simply a modified version of the pre-trib view, using the same arguments to try to get the church off the earth during the vials that the pre-trib view uses to try to get the church off the earth during the tribulation altogether.

My concern with the pre-wrath view is the same as my concern with the pre-trib view: both views attempt to give the church a false hope that it won't have to be on the earth during certain end-time events. When this false hope fails, my fear is that some in the church could then be offended with God for allowing them to remain on the earth during these events; or some in the church could even be deceived into thinking that the enemy has been able to somehow thwart God's will. But if we approach the tribulation knowing that we must endure unto the very end (Matthew 24:13), and that God has clearly warned us ahead of time of this fact, we will have a better chance of not being offended and of not being deceived, and we will be better prepared to remain on the earth with patience and faith, no matter what happens.

From post # 82 in this thread:

". . . we will be delivered after the 'Great Tribulation' and before God's wrath is released . . . "

No scripture says or requires that the seven vials (Revelation 16) are not included in the tribulation and cannot form its third and final stage, after the seven seals (Revelation 6) and the seven trumpets (Revelation 8-9). Jesus said the second coming will be after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), just as Revelation shows the second coming (Revelation 19) after the vials (Revelation 16).

From post # 83 in this thread:

". . . the church has seen trials and tribulations since the 1st advent . . . "

Yes. From the beginning, Jesus has allowed the church to suffer greatly during wars, persecutions, and natural disasters. In the same way, He will allow the church to suffer greatly during the tribulation (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13).

From post # 83 in this thread:

". . . we will be spared the wrath of God . . . "

Amen. There will be many people with salvation in the great tribulation (Revelation 7:9, 14), so we can be in the great tribulation without being appointed to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

From post # 83 in this thread:

". . . 7 days from entering into the ark and the floods overwhelm . . . "

Genesis 7:1-9 means that it took seven days for all of the animals to come to Noah and to enter the ark, at the end of which time the flood began. We see this again in Genesis 7:11-16, which says it was "the selfsame day" that the flood started that God shut Noah in the ark.

From post # 83 in this thread:

". . . like the 70th week . . . "

If by the seventieth week you mean tribulation times, the New Testament church will be on the earth in the tribulation alongside unbelieving Israel just as the New Testament church since its inception has always been on the earth alongside unbelieving Israel. And actually, all of the seventy "weeks" occur contiguously, for a specific period of time would not have been given in Daniel 9:24-27 if its fulfillment would actually involve other much longer periods of time. And the Hebrew of Daniel 9:24 doesn't actually refer to seventy "weeks," only to seventy "sevens," the Hebrew word for which (Strong's #7620) is a participle of the Hebrew word which means "to be complete" (Strong's #7650), so that Daniel 9:24 could be referring in a sealed manner to seventy "completions," or seventy years, in the time of the end (Daniel 12:9), beginning with the modern commandment to restore the nation of Israel (either the 1947 U.N. resolution calling for the reestablishment of a state of Israel or the 1948 Israeli declaration of statehood) and ending with Christ coming after sixty-nine years (Daniel 9:25) and fulfilling all of the requirements of Daniel 9:24 in the earthly Jerusalem by the seventieth year.

From post # 84 in this thread:

". . . provided they have not learned dispensationalism . . . "

Are you referring to the "dispensational" view which says that the church and Israel are mutually exclusive? If so, I agree that the scriptures nowhere teach this. Such a dispensationalism is a mistaken ecclesiology that was invented out of whole cloth in an attempt to support a mistaken eschatology of a pre-trib rapture, which the scriptures also nowhere teach.

Believing Jews, such as the Apostle Paul, are members of both the church and Israel (Romans 11:1). And believing Gentiles have been grafted into the tree of believing Israel (Romans 11:17), becoming fellow citizens in believing Israel (Ephesians 2:12-19).

The believers who will live to enter into the great tribulation will be from every nation (Revelation 7:9-14), not just physical Israel. And they will be members of the church, which is made up of all believers of all time, whether Jewish or Gentile (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there is only one faith, and only one body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23).

The Old Covenant has been "abolished" and "done away" with, for it has been completely replaced by the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-18; Hebrews 8:6-13; Colossians 2:14-16). The Christians in the tribulation will be under the New Covenant, for they will have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14), will have the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12), and will die in the Lord (Revelation 14:13).

From post # 88 in this thread:

". . . the wheat and the tares . . . "

Matthew 13:39-42 refers to the casting of all the wicked into the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15).

Matthew 13:42 is not referring to the second coming, for all evil is not cast into the furnace of the lake of fire at the second coming, only the beast and false prophet are (Revelation 19:20). After the millennium (Revelation 20:4) and the battle of Gog and Magog occur (Revelation 20:7-8), and before the white throne judgment occurs (Revelation 20:11-15), Satan will also be cast into the lake of fire where only the beast and false prophet had been previously cast (Revelation 20:10).

Matthew 13:42 and Revelation 20:15 refer to the subsequent casting of all those not written in the book of life into the lake of fire at the white throne judgment after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

From post # 89 in this thread:

". . . pre-trib rapture was wrote in the Bible . . . "

Please indicate specifically where you feel pre-trib was written in the Bible.

From post # 92 in this thread:

". . . rapture of the wise virgins . . . "

Again, the parable of the ten virgins relates to the second coming (Matthew 25:10). It in no way teaches a pre-trib rapture. Matthew 25:10 refers specifically to the marriage, which won't happen until the second coming (Revelation 19:7).

From post # 92 in this thread:

". . . Revelation 14:4 . . . "

There is no scripture that says the 144,000 singing in heaven (Revelation 14:1-5) are not killed. They could get into heaven (Revelation 12:5) by dying. The souls of Christians go into heaven when they die (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23).

The scripture says that the seal the 144,000 receive (Revelation 7:3-4) will protect them from harm from the locusts of the fifth trumpet (Revelation 9:4); it doesn't say anywhere that the seal is a protection from death; indeed the locusts won't be able to kill anyone (Revelation 9:5).

TwinCrier · Mar 15, 2004

Axver said:
I'll just walk up to the pretribbers, say "Hey look, seems like I was right", and get on with my life.

Now that's not very nice. I don't plan to spend time after the rapture going around to post-tribs saying, 'hey, told ya so.' I'd just rejoice that they were truly saved, whatever misinterpretations they may have had in life.

Lady Goodnews · Mar 16, 2004

postrib said:
The scriptures don't say that there will first be a future appearance of Christ to resurrect and rapture believers before the vials (Revelation 16), and then a subsequent appearance with believers after the vials. Instead, they refer to a single future appearance of Christ, which we do not see until Revelation 19, after the vials. There's no third coming.

You are absolutely right!

The dispensationalist, seem oblivious to the Scriptures teaching of the Beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (Rev.17:8), the Mark of the beast, and worship of his Image, all occur BEFORE the coming of Christ (Rev. 19:11).

That is when the Beast and the False prophet are DESTROYED...

Revelation 19:20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he DECEIVED them that had received the Mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his Image. These both were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

That make "pre-trib" rapture, an IMPOSSIBILITY, according to (Rev. 19:11-21).

It also make an 1000 year Millennium, an IMPOSSIBILITY...

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of ALL MEN 'both' small and great.

ALL MEN are "destroyed" even "the remnant" whom the dispensationalist teach will reign with Christ in the "millennium kingdom" ...

21 And THE REMNANT were "slain" with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of His mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

There will be NO third coming and/or Millennium kingdom after ( Rev.19:11-21), ALL MEN and the REMNANT, were destroyed (Vss.18, 21), there is NO ONE left!

Lady Goodnews,

FreeinChrist · Mar 16, 2004

Lady Goodnews said:
There will be NO third coming and/or Millennium kingdom after ( Rev.19:11-21), ALL MEN and the REMNANT, were destroyed (Vss.18, 21), there is NO ONE left!

Lady Goodnews,

And when was the Second Coming, Lady Goodnews? Or do you believe as Justme does - that it happens at the death of each individual? Therefore it is "future" but not a physical return?

Are you aware that postrib is a premillenialist?

Lady Goodnews · Mar 16, 2004

FreeinChrist said:
And when was the Second Coming, Lady Goodnews? Or do you believe as Justme does - that it happens at the death of each individual? Therefore it is "future" but not a physical return?

Are you aware that postrib is a premillenialist?

Hi FreeinChrist,

I have also been "pre-mill" and "pre-trib," until the Scriptures convinced me I was in ERROR!

Lady Goodnews

TasManOfGod · Mar 16, 2004

Is it not plain that it is the removal of the believer that causes tribulation!!!

Tas

Lady Goodnews · Mar 16, 2004

TasManOfGod said:
Is it not plain that it is the removal of the believer that causes tribulation!!!

Tas

No, not when the Scriptures teach otherwise (Rev. 19:11-21)!

Lady Goodnews,

TasManOfGod · Mar 16, 2004

Lady Goodnews
I see nothing in Rev 19:11-21 to change my view

Blessing
Tas

FreeinChrist · Mar 16, 2004

Lady Goodnews said:
Hi FreeinChrist,

I have also been "pre-mill" and "pre-trib," until the Scriptures convinced me I was in ERROR!

Lady Goodnews

Well, I wasn't pretrib and premil for many years - but a study of scripture showed me my error.

So, as you basically avoided my question - I will assume that you are a preterist like Justme, who doesn't believe in a future physical Second Coming of Christ to the earth.

What you will do and feel if there's no rapture ?

How will you react if there's no pre-trib rapture ? (Be realist)

I will keep faith and trust in God

I will keep fait but will be very scare

I will lose (a part of all) my faith

God deceived us, pre-tib rapture was wrote in the Bible !

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