From Evolution 101: God Creates Evil?

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Good and evil aren't scientific."

Yes they are, evil isn't the opposite of Good, its the lack of it. Just like darkness is the lack of light. If you dont' think so then please tell me who is the opposite of God?

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Science is not Theology Louis...

Evil and Good are defined usually either personally or by a Deity. Both so far are out of the reach of science. Psycology may be working on understanding the mind, but in Christianity it is the spirit or soul that is affected by evil, again out of reach of science. Science can only explain the natural, God by definition is unexplainable.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Its pretty clear that everything God created was "good" as he said so himself. Thus he cannot create the "wicked" acts these men do that make them be defined as wicked.

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It's strange. You say that everything God created was good but in the same post you make a distinction between action and purpose:

I see you fail to make the distinction between the action and the meaning of the action.

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God did create the darkness:

Is 45:7
I form the light and create darkness

It doesn't say He "forms the light and creates the lack of it."

God does orchestrate things for His purposes:

Is 45:7
I make peace and create calamity.

It doesn't say He "makes peace and creates the lack of peace."

Your view is limiting your ability to see that God can create something without being affected by it. God did create sin. In establishing what was "the Truth" God established what was sin. God's Word was established before He ever created man. God's plan was complete before He ever even Willed it into existence.

If you dont' think so then please tell me who is the opposite of God?

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There is no such thing as "the opposite of God." The closest representation I can think of would probably be the fallen man. To understand that you must make an effort to define the attributes of God:

God is totally righteous. Fallen man is totally unrighteous. God is all powerful. Everything else, including fallen man has only power which God gives him. God is eternal. Man is a created being, and therefore, at least in this life, has a beginning and an end. I'm sure there are more but these are enough. Despite popular belief, the answer to your question cannot be summed up by answering "satan."

Before I close, let me share something else with you. Neither the origins of darkness and the abyss nor the origin of satan is explained in Genesis. Their beginnings are a mystery, but only God is eternal (Ps. 90:2; Prov. 8:22-31). In the new heaven and new earth there will be no sea or darkness (Rev. 21:1, 25).

God bless.

"Aren't you going to give us that reference, Louis? "

darn it, I forgot to bring my 2 volumes up here on him that I usually quote from. my appologies.

"But I'm no expert, so that's just my opinion."

I agree, in that they cannot be measured, poked prodded, etc..but in the anaology I used, which Aqu. also talks about, that's how you talk about God.

"God did create the darkness: "

In this context he is talking about the divisions. Night and day. the analogy still holds thanks for making that distinction. It is also to note that this word is translated choose in certain verses also. So again, evil is an absence.

"There is no such thing as "the opposite of God." "

Exactly, Good and evil are not opposites, just as God doesn't have an opposite. Evil is a lack of Good. Thanks for completeing my anaology.

Hi all!

The JPS version renders Isaiah 45:6-7 as follows:

"That they may now from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me; I am the Lord, and there is none else; I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil; I am the Lord that does all these things."

This is a very good translation (I'm a professional Hebrew-to-English translator) and fairly close to the original Hebrew.

Look at Job 2:10. Job says to his wife, "...What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?' For all this Job did not sin with his lips."

We (orthodox Jews) believe that everything God created is good (in His view, Genesis 1:31), including what we imperfectly perceive as evil. On this dichotomy between how we perceive things & how He perceives things, see Isaiah 55:8-9 ("For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the Heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.")

Be well!

ssv

Id the question here: Is God the creator of Evil, or is He is source of Evil?

God created everything. Period. Does that invlude the nothings and the voids anf the darkness? Yes it does.

God is the source of Truth, God is the source of Light, and God is the source of Law.

By being the sources of these things, a duality was created: good/evil, right/wrong, light/darkness.

Evil is the opposite of Good. The things above that God made were made from Good, which in turn, defined Evil.

Evil, as a concpoet was created when God laid the Law, but Evil as a power was never of God.

Once established, Satan used that power to rebel against God...

thus, though God's provision of Law, we have both Good, from God, and Evil from Satan, niether of whoich could exist before the Law, but both of which are vital, if there is to be Law.

God did create Evil, but God is not the source of Evil, as it applies to mankind.. Satan is.

God gives us goodness, as one choice, and Stan gives us Evil as a second choice.

The choice itself, is the ultimate end ot a means: mankind desiring to Love God, or not to.

Gdo created us so that we would choose ot Love him.. in orde to choose, we would need an alternative choice: Hate. Love / Hate...Good / Evil.

This was God's plan all along, to create beings that would choose to Love Him.

Before time, he knew whoich ones would, and which ones wouldn't, and it is possible that He could have only created ones that would choose to Love him.. but then there wojld be no need for Law in that case.

Also, He could have chosen to simply destroy those who chos to Hate Him, but then that would not be fair to those who chose to Loe him, for why should the possible consequence of Death only exist for some and not for all?

So, God created things as they are, knowing the outcome:

Some wil live some will die. They will do so based upon thier choices, and I know who will choose what.

Some will live, and some will die.

To this end, is Good and Evil both existant.

And to this end was the Law created to define good and evil, for man, so that man could make his choice.

But, to man's sins, and man's wroing dpoings. it is not God who is to blame, but man himself, for it is man who still chooses to Love or Hate God.

Originally posted by Neo
Isaiah 45:6-7
I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil

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My translation is a different:
Isaiah 45:6-7
...I am the Lord, and there is no other. I am the one who creates the light and the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times. I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord has made everything for his own purposes, even the wicked for punishment.

I believe the "bad things" that God is talking about is not truly evil...for evil is anything that goes against the will of God. (God is good and whatever He does will be good....He is the definition of good) The evil that we perceive(the bad things) He uses to mold us. We may think of them as evil, but truly they are good or at least He uses them for good. He spoke so that they would understand. We must all be refined as His people if we truly wish to grow.

Originally posted by E-beth
God created everything...nothing exists that He did not make. Therefore He made Lucifer, who is the father of all sin and evil. So indirectly God made evil.

However, I do not believe God made evil to test us or whatever. Just like in the book of Job, He allows Satan to mess things up to test our faith.

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I totally agree with you e-beth

I think we need to make the distinction between Evil(Sin) and Calamity(Destruction). Sin is always evil, but destruction can serve either good or evil, in that God can use it for chastening(punishment) or people can use it for malice. Then again, God can use sin for good purposes:

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive. - Genesis 50:20, NASB

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. - Romans 8:28, NASB

Hmmm, this is a difficult subject. LOL!