What you will do and feel if there's no rapture ?

Lady Goodnews said:

Those who pay with their own blood can not "buy" Salvation, it is a free gift by grace, through FAITH!


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Lets not confuse the rapture with salvation. Not everyone is going to be raptured, just as everyones souls will not be seen under the altar. In both cases though, it was Christ that paid for their salvation, however, this does not mean that all of the virgins (believers) will be ready in time for that rapture in the twinkling of an eye. Every believer must overcome the world, and deny himself.

Luke 12:34-46 - "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."

Notice that some believers are thrown in with the unbelievers. He's not throwing unbelievers in with other unbelievers, because they would already be together if that were the case.


Matthew 16:23-25 - "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."

Mark 8:34-35 - "And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."

Luke 9:23-24 - "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it."

Here's the two ways we can get there:

Rev. 19:9 - "Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!' " And he added, "These are the true words of God."

Rev. 14:13 - "Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."
"Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

Jesus will be coming for a faithful and pure bride. He died for her and He deserves nothing but the best.

Everybody knows that Jesus died for us, but most people don't realize that believers must die for Him too. I believe that's the big difference between the five wise and the five foolish virgins. The wise virgins willingly and voluntarily laid their lives down before the Bridegroom comes. They had crucified their flesh, and Christ is the light that is seen in them. He is in them and they are in Him. These are living sacrifices (disciples).

The foolish ones, however, they haven't figured this out yet. Though they believe, they are still living for self, and chasing after the lusts of the flesh and the cares of this world. They won't lay their lives down until they don't have any other choice, but they will eventually surrender.

Then there will be the pretenders who won't be able to deny self. They will lose their lives trying to save it. They will depart from the faith and fall away from the truth and end up taking the mark.

Luke 13:22-30 - "Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
24He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'
28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."

rollinTHUNDER said:

No doubt about it, the door will be shut and Jesus will have His faithful bride. Notice : Jesus didn't tell the others that He never knew them, like He will do at the Judgment?

This doesn't mean that the others are doomed to hell. It doesn't mean they will all take the mark, but they will be least in the kingdom. If they reject the mark, these will be the ones whose souls are seen under the altar in heaven.

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I say this with deep remorse and consternation, but that is exactly what it mean.

Those who do not believe the truth (PREPARE) before the Coming of Christ, have taken the mark of DECEPTION and are doomed to hell!

2 Thessalonians 2:1 NOW we beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus christ, and by our "gathering together" unto Him.

7 For "the mystery of iniquity" doth ALREADY work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall DESTROY with the brightness of His coming:


Proof positive, the 1000 years (Rev. 20:7-10), will be finished "before" the Coming of Jesus!


9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that Perish; because they received "not" the love of the truth, that they might be SAVED.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they ALL might be ****** who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

To All...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Lady Goodnews

Lady Goodnews said:

Proof positive, the 1000 years (Rev. 20:7-10), will be finished "before" the Coming of Jesus! (

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Not according to scripture:

Revelation 19:11-21 - "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

Revelation 20:1-15 - "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

The 1000 years are finished "before" Revelation 20, because the Scriptures say Satan is LOOSED when the 1000 years are finished.
Satan (the Beast), is LOOSED from the "bottomless pit," in (Rev. 11:7).

Revelation 20, is a recapitulation of (Rev. 11), right down to the Resurrection of the dead and the Great White Throne Judgment!

Lady Goodnews

Lady Goodnews said:

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

The 1000 years are finished "before" Revelation 20, because the Scriptures say Satan is LOOSED when the 1000 years are finished.
Satan (the Beast), is LOOSED from the "bottomless pit," in (Rev. 11:7).

Revelation 20, is a recapitulation of (Rev. 11), right down to the Resurrection of the dead and the Great White Throne Judgment!

Lady Goodnews

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Satan is not the beast. The beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).

Satan, the dragon/serpent is locked up in the bottomless pit for the 1000 years of Christ's reign (Rev.20:1-3).

Satan will later (After 1000 yr in prison), be cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already were during the 1000 years (Rev.20:10).

rollinTHUNDER said:

Revelation 19:11-21 - "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,

If you had started a few verses up, you would have seen that Jesus REIGNS "before" the Marriage Supper of the Lamb...

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and a voice of many waters, as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent REIGNETH.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him: for the Marriage of the Lamb is Come, and His wife "hath made herself READY."

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of Saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are "called" unto the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. And He saith unto me, These ARE the true sayings of God.

I believe the true sayings of God! Do you?

Lady Goodnews

rollinTHUNDER said:

Satan is not the beast. The beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).

Satan, the dragon/serpent is locked up in the bottomless pit for the 1000 years of Christ's reign (Rev.20:1-3).

Satan will later (After 1000 yr in prison), be cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already were during the 1000 years (Rev.20:10).

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,

You got it almost right...

The Beast and the false prophet ARE thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20), NOT the "bottomless pit."

The Beast, that ascendeth out of the 'bottomless pit" is Satan, the SAME Beast that "ascendeth" out of the "bottomless pit" in (Rev. 17:8,11), that goeth into perdition.

The "son of perdition" (2 Th. 2:3), also called that Wicked, whom the Lord will DESTROY with the brightness of His Coming (2 Th.2:8; Rev. 19:20).

Lady Goodnews

HiddenManna said:

It is very hard to add to the poll when there is no pre-trib rapture...I pray that all who listen to false shepherds will seek out the Lord for wisdom and revelation about the true condition of the church and where the "tribulation" happens.

History repeats itself...and nowhere in the Bible were God's people raptured. God always raised up a beast to put His wayward people in tribulation. Don't let the Pharisees of these last days deceive you.

Have faith in the Lord. He is the Sovereign God over ALL things. We shall experience the tribulations for our purification. But not the wrath of God in the day of the Lord which is judgement reserved for the wicked, not the saints.

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I just don't believe there will be a rapture.
I have no bible verses to prove there will be.
It would not change my faith.

By His Grace said:

I won't feel any different, because I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture. I am a second coming only person. God has never removed anyone off of the earth while they were under judgment...Noah, Lot, the Israelites when the death angel passed over Egypt. I think that the pre-tribbers when things start happening regarding the trib, they will see it, and understand that they were wrong. It won't negate their faith any. If anything, it will bring us all closer to Christ. Especially when the AC starts his "dirty work".

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I agree with you.

And again, she totally ignores the timing as shown in Rev. 19 - 20.

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rollinTHUNDER,

The timing as shown in Rev. 19-20, is the exact same as that of Rev. 11.

You have a Bible, check it for yourself and compare the "events." You will see Rev. 19-20, is a ONLY a recapitulation of Rev. 11,
NOT a new set of events.

If you find I am in error, please point out the error. I want to get it right!

Lady Goodnews

Lady Goodnews said:

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

You got it almost right...



The Beast, that ascendeth out of the 'bottomless pit" is Satan, the SAME Beast that "ascendeth" out of the "bottomless pit" in (Rev. 17:8,11), that goeth into perdition.

The "son of perdition" (2 Th. 2:3), also called that Wicked, whom the Lord will DESTROY with the brightness of His Coming (2 Th.2:8; Rev. 19:20).

Lady Goodnews

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Yeah, but you aren't even close. I'd suggest that maybe you should ask the Holy Spirit to give you wisdom and insight when you study the Word, especially when you get into a book as complex as Revelation, which is highly symbolic.

Lady Goodnews said:

rollinTHUNDER,

The timing as shown in Rev. 19-20, is the exact same as that of Rev. 11.

You have a Bible, check it for yourself and compare the "events." You will see Rev. 19-20, is a ONLY a recapitulation of Rev. 11,
NOT a new set of events.

If you find I am in error, please point out the error. I want to get it right!

Lady Goodnews

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I believe you are addressing and quoting the wrong person here.

Forgive me for not reading every single post on this thread. I'm new here and it's rather long, so I may only be repeating what has already been said by others.

I didn't vote on the poll because I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. I do however respect the views of pre-tribbers who have come to their point of view through study of the Word, and who can back up their beliefs. My concern is that so many Christians believe blindly in a pre-trib rapture. It is so mainstream in the Church nowadays that many may not even realize that it is not necessarily truth. This ignorance to the possibility of enduring the tribulation may mean that an individual is not prepared if they are actually faced with the wrath of the antichrist.

rollinTHUNDER said:

I believe you are addressing and quoting the wrong person here.

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,

I am addressing you, regarding the comments FreeinChrist, made that I was ignoring the timing, of Rev.19-20.

I am saying the "events" are the EXACT same "events" described in (Rev. 11).

I am suggesting you check it out forself, with your Bible to see if that is "truth or error."

Please, point out ALL error. I will check my Bible to see if it agree with your assessment. If so I will change my belief to line up with the Scriptures.


Lady Goodnews

Lady Goodnews said:

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

If you had started a few verses up, you would have seen that Jesus REIGNS "before" the Marriage Supper of the Lamb...

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and a voice of many waters, as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent REIGNETH.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him: for the Marriage of the Lamb is Come, and His wife "hath made herself READY."

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of Saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are "called" unto the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. And He saith unto me, These ARE the true sayings of God.

I believe the true sayings of God! Do you?

Lady Goodnews

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,

I just realized I got no answer to my question, perhaps the post got lost in the mix!

What is your answer regarding the above?

Lady Goodnews

From post # 62 in this thread:

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". . . this does not mean that all of the virgins (believers) will be ready in time for that rapture . . . "

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In Matthew 25:1-13, the parable of the ten virgins relates to the second coming (Matthew 25:10). It in no way teaches a pre-trib rapture. Matthew 25:10 refers specifically to the marriage, which won’t happen until the second coming (Revelation 19:7).

From post # 62 in this thread:

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". . . rapture in the twinkling of an eye . . . "

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Are you referring to 1 Corinthians 15:52? If so, all that that passage says will happen “in the twinkling of an eye” is the changing of the bodies of those true believers who are still alive at the second coming into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). The second coming itself will involve much more than that. First, Jesus must descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God (1 Thessalonians 4:16); then the dead in Christ must be resurrected (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16); then we which are alive and remain must be changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:52-53); then we which are alive and remain must be caught up together with the resurrected dead into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). No scripture says that all of this will happen instantaneously.

From post # 62 in this thread:

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". . . Every believer must overcome the world . . . "

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Amen. And believers can “overcome” (nikao, Strong’s #3528) and “get the victory” (nikao) by dying faithfully (Revelation 15:2; 12:11; 14:12-13).

From post # 62 in this thread:

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". . . the wedding supper . . . "

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The marriage supper will be on the earth after Christ fights the armies that gathered at Armageddon (Revelation 19:17; Isaiah 25:6-9).

From post # 63 in this thread:

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". . . Jesus will be coming for a faithful and pure bride . . . "

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Amen. And there’s no third coming. The bride of Christ is the true church (Ephesians 5:31-32), and the believers who will live to enter into the great tribulation will be members of the true church, for they will have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14), will have the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12), and will die in the Lord (Revelation 14:13), and there is only one faith, and only one body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23).

The danger with the pre-trib teaching is that it attempts to give the church a false hope that it won’t have to be on the earth during the tribulation. When this false hope fails, and the church enters into the tribulation suffering, many in the church could become offended with God that He would allow them to suffer like that (Matthew 24:9-13); or some in the church could even be deceived into thinking that the enemy has been able to somehow thwart God’s will. But if we approach the tribulation knowing that Jesus has clearly warned us ahead of time what we must suffer (Mark 13:23), and that we must endure unto the very end (Matthew 24:13), we will have a better chance of not being offended and of not being deceived when the suffering comes, and we will be better prepared to remain on the earth with patience and faith (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13), no matter what happens.