Doctrinal Implications of Hyper-Preterism

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
Okay, I would like to pose a question to anyone interested.

Do you think preterism will eventually become a new denomination? Why or why not?

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Hi Antie, I wouldn't want to see preterism become a denomination... preterism is what will unite the body of Christ not divide it; futurism is what has been dividing the body of Christ for the past 2000 years! Preterism would put us all on the same page! Paul was a preterist and if he were alive on this earth today I firmly believe he would rebuke the body of Christ for sitting around still waiting for the Lord to return when it already occurred in his lifetime! All you need to do is read 1&2 thess & all his other inspired words & it's plain to see when the proper Biblical Hermeneutics are applied he was not addressing an audience some hundreds and thousands of years into the distant future! He addresses denominationalism/division in the following passages:

1 Corinthians 1:10-13, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing , and that there be no divisions among you ; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

I've just recently come out of the doctrine of imagination known as futurism and I can understand how futurists read their Bibles! They take the precious words of Jesus and all the other inspired writers and read into it what appeals to their emotions. The Bible was not written to us it was written for us!

Hi Auntie,

If you are seriously interested in learning what we believe I at least will be happy to discuss things with you. It's just that we (at least I) are a bit skeptical about the purpose of this thread. On the other forum you made it abundantly clear that you wanted nothing to do with us, called us heretics, sometimes posted misinformation and generalities about what we believe,and basically did everything in your power to try and shut us up. Now we're here in a different forum and we see you starting a thread on preterism?

Can you at least understand how bewildering, not to mention frustrating that is for preterists at the moment? I can understand why Pericles reacted the way he did.

If your purpose is truly to understand (although not agree with) preterism then please feel free to ask your questions. I'll do what I can to answer them, and I will not mock you or taunt you. I just ask you to give me as much respect as I will toward you. Sound fair?

Concerning the "denomination" idea, it's impossible for preterism to become a denom. Preterism is like Futurism; it's an eschatological view only. There's no such thing as a denomination called "Futurism". Now futurism (and preterism) can become views held by certain denoms, but in and of themselves neither will become a denom. Preterism is a view held by Christians throughout the world regardless of denom, same as futurism is a view held by Christians throughout the world regardless of denom.

So I hope that answers that question. Feel free to ask more if you'd like. See, I didn't bite.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Auntie Belle Um,

It is much easier to tear down someone's beliefs than it is to actually have beliefs and then have to defend them against someone like you. It is much easier to earn disdain than it is to earn respect.

Why don't you go and try to do the latter in both of these statements and then come back and talk to the preterists on this forum.

Or better yet, why don't you seek the Lord to find a glorious vision for the church like Davo, Pericles, GW, and others have-- a vision that will cost you to hold and proclaim. If you do these things you will come back here not as a child but as a mature woman in the Lord. Then someone might listen to you.

Do you think preterism will eventually become a new denomination?

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Denomination? Or cult? Or have you backed off your statement from a couple of days ago that Preterism "is a cult of the worst kind"? Seriously, I'm curious about this.

As for doctrinal implications. As I learned last night, Preterists are not in 100% compliance with Nicene Creed, therefore for the purposes of this website Preterists are not defined as Christians and therefore not allowed to post on the Christians only message boards. The message board owner did assure me that one did not have to fully comply with the Nicene Creed to be saved-so I guess I'm still able to enter heaven-just not some Christians only message boards. It's all quite mind boggling.

As for practical implications: With Peterism, my world view is changing and the Bible makes much more sense.

I am much more aware of the great gift of my own salvation. Jesus is truely with us and within us-his Parousia (presence). The old hymn articulates it much better than I can: "Amazing grace how sweat the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see." Or to put it another way-Rev. 21:3-4.

Originally posted by Susan
Yes, and we are seeing it now. I believe that as an adjunct to Russia's attack on Israel though, that Russia will fire a preemptive strike on Israel's ally America.
While Israel is protected, WE IN AMERICA WILL NOT BE.
So where is america in the last days? Incinerated and radioactive.
Dig your bomb shelters now. Maybe we can survive until the rapture that way????

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Originally posted by Josephus
Nuclear or biological warfare? Of course. I almost wait in anticipation for the day Israel finally nukes Damascus.

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The above are examples for why I am not a "dispensational futurist." -how embarrassing, yet how sad. It's the prevailing attitude of so many in western christendom "bring it on -let it all begin" -it incites much hatred and violence e.g., Jews against Arabs etc -and suppoesedly sanctioned by God. I DON'T THINK SO!

Basically you can equate Futurism with FEAR.

False
Expectations
As
Real

davo

Originally posted by Acts6:5
Hi Auntie,
If you are seriously interested in learning what we believe I at least will be happy to discuss things with you. It's just that we (at least I) are a bit skeptical about the purpose of this thread. On the other forum you made it abundantly clear that you wanted nothing to do with us, called us heretics, sometimes posted misinformation and generalities about what we believe,and basically did everything in your power to try and shut us up.

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Judging by Auntie's posts the answer is self evident -has she been raptured

davo

Originally posted by jenlu
I seriously would like to hear what you have to say about some of these subjects...some of the things you and other prets have been saying make sense to me...great commission, sunday (anyday really)worship, judgement day(past or future and why), the Holy Spirit, etc...take one at a time and let's converse...i'll give you my input as well and won't just ask questions...i may not be able to reply till tomorrow...possibly later tonight...other full preterist(or partial preterists for that matter) can join in as well...thanks in advance...

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Hi jenlu -sorry I've been a bit slack getting back to you.

How about what is popularily called "the great commission" was it fulfilled? if so what does the bible say? where does this leave us today?

If the "the great commission" was the preaching of the gospel in all the world as in that generation:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Then I believe scripture says this was fulfilled:

Colossians 1:5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 23if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 10:18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."

The word "world" from Mt 24:14 pronouced "oy-kou-men-ay" literaly means "the inhabited world" i.e., the known world of 1st century Christendom. And the scriptures I quoted above indicate this happened. The reason we traditionally read straight over these scriptures and don't see them in the context of "the great commission" fulfillment is because Jesus goes on to say: "and then shall the end come." -We reason "the end didn't come" so these verses don't apply to this. However, what end was Jesus refering to? Covenant eschatology says it's the end of the "old covenant age" that Jesus is talking about -not the end of our time space universe i.e., the termination of this physical creation.

Mt 24:3 "...Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

The word "world" is more accurately translated "age" -"when will be the end of the age" i.e., the age of Judaism -their city, their Temple, their world.

If "the great commission is thus fulfilled, are we then exempt from sharing the gospel of Christ? -NO, our Gospel is eternal [Rev 14:6].

Luke 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

davo

davo,

I'm in some agreement that the prophecy was fulfilled in the first century, because the word "world" obviously means the Roman world...even if it doesn't mean that, one can see, with the verses you supplied and some others, that the fulfilment came in the first century...Paul said, what Jesus said would happen, happened...But Jesus gave the disciples(and us possibly and this is what I'm wondering about) a command, to preach the gospel...Do we (year 2000) do that as well(as lead of course), or was that just a command for the first century that no longer is needed...

I'm confused...

I thought Christ didn't know when He was going to come back. I really haven't heard anything about preterism until I've been perusing these boards, and I've taken a good bit of Biblical classes at a Southern Baptist college - and we've never talked about this.

I did skim through a book one time, called, "The Second Coming of Christ already happened." Very funny book, I thought. Worked from an apriori backwards. Maybe it was just the author.

Scott...

Jesus may not have known the exact day...but even if you believe that, you've got to admit that He atleast knew the events leading up to "The Day"...Look at all the "signs" he gave his disciple's to look for to know "the day" was near...I don't know about the second coming, but surely there was some type of "Coming" the great and terrible day of the Lord...

Originally posted by jenlu
Scott...

Jesus may not have known the exact day...but even if you believe that, you've got to admit that He atleast knew the events leading up to "The Day"...Look at all the "signs" he gave his disciple's to look for to know "the day" was near...I don't know about the second coming, but surely there was some type of "Coming" the great and terrible day of the Lord...

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So was this when the Holy Spirit came or something else? What "day" are we looking at?

Seriously interested,

SEC

The day Jesus could be refering to (and I can see that you understand that a "Day of the Lord" does not neccessarily mean an actual Coming to earth) could have happened within 40 years("this generation shall not pass") of Him actually predicting them...I could go through how the proof of all of the signs that Jesus talked about came about between the periods of 30AD and 70AD, but if you are really interested, look through many of these posts and actually do some of the research yourself...From what I've been through I feel that one cannot be convinced by others, one must search it out on their own...I used to be a dispensationalist somewhat, but I always had trouble with the time texts of the Bible and how the disciple's with Paul always seemed to be saying that the "Day of the Lord" was "at hand"...I decided one day about 4 years ago, to figure out why they kept on saying these things...I believe it was a turning point in my faith in God...Let me just say though...coming into any type of understanding like this is not the end all be all...I believe there will be a natural progression, but the main point of life of course your relationship with your Heavenly Father...the reason I'm saying this is how sometimes I get so caught up in eschatology I forget sometimes, what it's all about...