Preterists/ Are we living in the garden of eden?
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armothe
Living in HIS kingdom...
My personal opinion:
The Garden of Eden seemed to have been a physical place. Between the Euphrates, Tigris, Pishon, and Gihon rivers. Adam and Eve were subsequently kicked out, never to return.
My deduction is that it was a physical place in which man was/is never to return to. So, no, I do not think we are living in the Garden of Eden.
-A
The Garden of Eden seemed to have been a physical place. Between the Euphrates, Tigris, Pishon, and Gihon rivers. Adam and Eve were subsequently kicked out, never to return.
My deduction is that it was a physical place in which man was/is never to return to. So, no, I do not think we are living in the Garden of Eden.
-A
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Wildfire,
One thing preterists are doing is calling the church to maturity. Paul gives a clue of what exactly a mature Christian is in I Corinthians 3:
1And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, I am of Paul, and another, I am of Apollos, are you not carnal? 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NKJV)
The key words in understanding the difference between a babe and a mature Christian are the words carnal and spiritual. Do you understand the difference between the carnally minded Christian and the spiritually minded Christian? How about this passage. Do you know what Paul is talking about?
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:14 -16 (NKJV)
It may seem like I am dodging your question, but believe me I am not. To understand Preterism, you must begin to understand these things. Let me know.
One thing preterists are doing is calling the church to maturity. Paul gives a clue of what exactly a mature Christian is in I Corinthians 3:
1And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, I am of Paul, and another, I am of Apollos, are you not carnal? 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NKJV)
The key words in understanding the difference between a babe and a mature Christian are the words carnal and spiritual. Do you understand the difference between the carnally minded Christian and the spiritually minded Christian? How about this passage. Do you know what Paul is talking about?
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:14 -16 (NKJV)
It may seem like I am dodging your question, but believe me I am not. To understand Preterism, you must begin to understand these things. Let me know.
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armofthe, thanks for the reply. I am just trying to understand how preterists came to the conclusion that this earth we now live in, is paradise and that Jesus Christ had already returned seventy years after his crucifixion.
Wildfire
Wildfire
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Hi Ozark, I realize that my question may not have sounded mature, but I wanted to ask this in the most straight-foreward way that I could...
What Paul may have been saying in his passage is that man must be spiritual minded before he can progress further in Gods teachings. It is good to overcome carnal feelings in all reactions among other men; to resist anger, and be pure in thought, to practice patience and godliness.
By your username, I hope you answer my question!
Wildfire
What Paul may have been saying in his passage is that man must be spiritual minded before he can progress further in Gods teachings. It is good to overcome carnal feelings in all reactions among other men; to resist anger, and be pure in thought, to practice patience and godliness.
By your username, I hope you answer my question!
Wildfire
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To answer your question. No, we are not in the Garden of Eden. I have never heard a preterist teach this. However, we do have the most important thing in the garden. That is the tree of life. It is not a literal tree, but the Person of Jesus Christ who has become our life (John 14:6).
You said, and rightly so, that we must be spiritually minded. Yet, I asked you what it means to be spiritually minded. Would you care to answer? And by no means am I accusing you of being immature. I am simply trying to help you understand the preterist viewpoint. If you really want to understand and not just attack, it is going to take a little effort on your part. If you are willing to do this, you might become the only futurist on this Forum that I know of who actually understands preterism. If you are game, I am willing to help.
You said, and rightly so, that we must be spiritually minded. Yet, I asked you what it means to be spiritually minded. Would you care to answer? And by no means am I accusing you of being immature. I am simply trying to help you understand the preterist viewpoint. If you really want to understand and not just attack, it is going to take a little effort on your part. If you are willing to do this, you might become the only futurist on this Forum that I know of who actually understands preterism. If you are game, I am willing to help.
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"Preterists/ Are we living in the garden of eden?"
No. This is Iowa.
But seriously, if you are truely interested in how Preterists arrive at their conclusions I would suggest the following link. I think it's pretty well done anyway.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/dennis-todd_p_09.html
No. This is Iowa.
But seriously, if you are truely interested in how Preterists arrive at their conclusions I would suggest the following link. I think it's pretty well done anyway.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/dennis-todd_p_09.html
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thank you for responding, I have looked into preterism, and the links offered and it just does not sit well with me. I cannot agree that Jesus has already returned, and that the destruction of Jerusalem, (what the prophets in the OT spoke of, concerning the end of the world), was what they were really referring to. It is lacking, in all of my own spiritual intuition.
*sigh* yes, part of prophecy has been fufilled, but not all of it. I am not here to argue with anyone or attack; I can study the websites and follow your conversations, but to what end?? (joking) I am a futurist, and if the only way I can understand, is to study to BE a preterist, then I won't do that. Unlike some of the preterist posters who were dissatisfied with futurism, I am very content with it. I understand it. My questions were stemmed from curiousity and also concern for those who may have accidently gotten caught up in the belief of "this never ending world".
Well, to my proposed question: is this world we are living in today paradise/ the garden of Eden? No, far from it. And to those who are still somewhat interested in prophecy, I hope you come over to the future forum and read whats happening in the world, while we are all still in it.
God bless,
Wildfire
*sigh* yes, part of prophecy has been fufilled, but not all of it. I am not here to argue with anyone or attack; I can study the websites and follow your conversations, but to what end?? (joking) I am a futurist, and if the only way I can understand, is to study to BE a preterist, then I won't do that. Unlike some of the preterist posters who were dissatisfied with futurism, I am very content with it. I understand it. My questions were stemmed from curiousity and also concern for those who may have accidently gotten caught up in the belief of "this never ending world".
Well, to my proposed question: is this world we are living in today paradise/ the garden of Eden? No, far from it. And to those who are still somewhat interested in prophecy, I hope you come over to the future forum and read whats happening in the world, while we are all still in it.
God bless,
Wildfire
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- Feb 24, 2002
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Wildfire,
Since I am unable to post in "christians only" sections anymore, I can't come to the future forum to engage you, so, I'll have to do it here.
One question I have to those in the future forum.
Does the Bible tell us Who today is authorized to proclaim infallibly that a particular "current event" is the fulfillment of prophesy?
You? Me? RollinThunder? Hal Lindsay? Tim Lahae? All of us?
What does the Bible actually say aout that topic?
Now to answer yours about the garden of Eden.
I find no scripture that prophesies that one day every individual on planet earth will be free from sin and suffering, in fact Scripture testifies the exact opposite.
In Rev. 22:2, on "the new earth," we see the "Tree of life" that yields fruit every month, the "leaves" of which are "for the healing of the nations" (Rev. 22:2). This teaches us that in the new earth, "the nations" are in need of continual healing. If there is No Garden of eden, even on the new earth, where is it gonna be?
The "garden of Eden" you are looking for today is our "heavenly" inheritance, not some earthly biological paradise.
Christ functions as a preist on behalf of "sinners" on earth forever.(Psalms 110:4)
This means sinners will forever be able to enjoy the ministries of forgiveness in Christ.
The Moment sinners cease to exist on earth, Christ ceases to function as a priest on their / our behlaf, and scripture testifies the exact opposite.
The Gospel, which sole purpose is to be preached to sinners who dwell on earth, is "everlasting". It has no "use by" or "expiration" date. (Rvelation 14:6)
The Moment sinners cease to dwell on the earth, the "Everlasting Gospel" ceases to have a purpose, scripture again testifies the exact opposite.
It seems that some people (such as yourself I believe) will never be satisfied with anything less than a fleshly utopia that is characterized by absolute "behavioral errorlessness" throughout the entire universe (except for in hell). In contrast to this carnal desire of how the universe should be, God says that He created "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" in order "that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy."
The world in which we live is not "the best of all possible worlds" for the wicked. But it is the best of all possible worlds, "to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose" (Rom. 8:28).
YBIC,
P70
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Hi, if you are asking if I am claiming to be a prophet, no I am not. The OT writes that many at the end, will be ashamed of their own prophecies, and even deny the wounds that are upon their hands. There is only one authority and that is God in heaven.
There will be two witnesses, who shall come in his name to testify, demand repentance, prophecy against satan and cast plagues but they will be overcome by the antichrist. (and their bodies will lay in the streets of Jerusalem, and not buried for the world to see /via internet, television? and during this time the people of the world will rejoice and send gifts to one another <Christmastime>
? and after three days, God will put life back into their bodies, and they shall stand upon their feet and fear will fall upon everyone.)
This can be found in Revelation.
I consider myself to be more of a watcher; I am not here to attack or condemn anyone, but rather bring to rememberance those things which Jesus had said. They are of great importance.
No, I am not seeking the Garden of Eden, I'm afraid that was misunderstood. I know it is not here on earth. I was asking the truth of selected preterists, to see if that was what they believed to try and understand why.
You asked about the new heaven and the new earth. This will be formed again by Gods hands. This earth shall pass away and melt with heat, and shall not be found again. This will happen at the end of all life on earth; when Gods prophecy has been fulfilled. And the names in the book of life are read. And the sheep are separated from the goats. And the judgement is passed upon everyone. To everlasting life, or everlasting shame.
Have you ever read the book of Enoch? I reccomend that; it is an accurate and informative description of the levels of heaven, of hell, and paradise (which is the garden of Eden that Adam and Eve had sinned against).
It is quite beautiful, I hope you look into it.
Wildfire
There will be two witnesses, who shall come in his name to testify, demand repentance, prophecy against satan and cast plagues but they will be overcome by the antichrist. (and their bodies will lay in the streets of Jerusalem, and not buried for the world to see /via internet, television? and during this time the people of the world will rejoice and send gifts to one another <Christmastime>
? and after three days, God will put life back into their bodies, and they shall stand upon their feet and fear will fall upon everyone.)
This can be found in Revelation.
I consider myself to be more of a watcher; I am not here to attack or condemn anyone, but rather bring to rememberance those things which Jesus had said. They are of great importance.
No, I am not seeking the Garden of Eden, I'm afraid that was misunderstood. I know it is not here on earth. I was asking the truth of selected preterists, to see if that was what they believed to try and understand why.
You asked about the new heaven and the new earth. This will be formed again by Gods hands. This earth shall pass away and melt with heat, and shall not be found again. This will happen at the end of all life on earth; when Gods prophecy has been fulfilled. And the names in the book of life are read. And the sheep are separated from the goats. And the judgement is passed upon everyone. To everlasting life, or everlasting shame.
Have you ever read the book of Enoch? I reccomend that; it is an accurate and informative description of the levels of heaven, of hell, and paradise (which is the garden of Eden that Adam and Eve had sinned against).
It is quite beautiful, I hope you look into it.
Wildfire
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armothe
Living in HIS kingdom...
I like the book of Enoch, personally. But there is a reason why it wasn't included in the Bible. As much as this book provides some great insight, it is easy to get caught up in the mysticism.
Ancient polythieism, as well as modern day wicca appropriate much of what is found in Enoch into their own practices.
Just be careful.
-A
Ancient polythieism, as well as modern day wicca appropriate much of what is found in Enoch into their own practices.
Just be careful.
-A
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