Catholic Democrats???

I agree with whomever said that making abortions illegal will not stop abortions but making the death penalty illegal will stop the government-sanctioned killing of prisoners. Thus I would vote for a candidate who opposed the death penalty but wanted abortion to be legal before I would vote for a candidate who was pro-death penalty even if he or she were anti-abortion.

If abortion is illegal, a lot of women will die due to botched back-alley-type procedures, and many of those women may be seeking out an abortion because they are pregnant by very traumatic means like rape or incest - so I cannot blame them for having a difficult time making the right moral choice. Instead of flat-out making abortions illegal, I think the US ought to make adoptions easier and educate people about them, offer better counseling and women's services, work to improve law enforcement and social services to prevent future rapes and incestual acts from occuring, and better educate students about sex (there are still a lot of kids out there who think it's impossible to get pregnant your first time, or other similar malarkey.) I believe that the number of abortions would diminish hugely, and that then we could talk about whether it should be legal or not.

Well, that line of thinking contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church.

I know I can't debate, but thought I would offer some figures:

Percentage of abortions performed due to life or health threat to the mother: 1%
Percentage of abortions performed due to rape or incest: 2%
Percentage of abortions performed due to health of the baby: 4%

That would mean that 93% are done out of selfish reasons...

loveisallyouneed said:

Well you know what they say. Today's Republicans are the Democrats of yesterday and today's Democrats are Socialists. Seems pretty true to me.

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Thank you! We also have to take into consideration that not all that are listed as "Catholics" are practicing Catholics. In the military people are asked what their faith is and that is placed on their dog tags. That doesn't mean they have ever read one thing about the Bible or even stepped in a Church in twenty years. It becomes unfortunately, a tribal thing, a cultural one if you will. I can get into the Irish problem of identifying oneself as Catholic or Protestant, or the Mafia one as well, but that's a different thread.

Certainly, we can't quantify how many people had closet abortions when it was ilegal and I can't continue to argue the incest/rape situation to justify over a million abortions a year. Sure violence escalated in the present times, but it is inconceivable to believe there have been that many rapes/incest to make one support abortion. Then there are the arguments about teenage pregnacy which fail to make one accountable.

Surely, if the effect of banning abortion were to make more women die from "closet" abortions, would we support the murder of babies, or the "suicide" of one attempting surgery on oneself? Should we help one murder their baby so they don't inflict harm on oneself?

I've heard the argument ad nausem about closet abortions and rape/incest which appeared ok possibly twenty years ago, in the short term, but luckily we have a Church whichs thinks long term, bearing the fruits today of women using abortion as a birth control device.

If a country were to adhere to all citizens, religious and non, then abortion can be ilegal. Unfortunately, we are considered "biased" and they don't care what we have to say. That can only change by changing the climate. Not of our politicans, who sway wherever the wind blows, but through activism.

I'm not a Democrat, but, my Republican friends, what will you do when your party doesn't want you anymore? Don't believe me? Check out the neo-conservative Mayor Bloomberg of NY, who is pro-choice, recently christened the all gay high school in NYC, and just told gay supporters of gay marriage (an oxymoron) to fight the law if they don't like it. "Oh, that's just NYC, their crazy over there".

Yeah, and its coming to a town near you.

News flash! Women die during abortion procedures today! Abortion doesn't have to be made illegal for the act to have the possibility of killing the mother along with the child.

I'd be interested in knowing just exactly how many women died during "back-alley" abortions and compare that to the millions of innocent children that have died since Satan donned those judicial robes...methinks the numbers won't even be in the same country.

Right on the money Credo. Satan is so good at sowing deception.

Credo said:

I'd be interested in knowing just exactly how many women died during "back-alley" abortions and compare that to the millions of innocent children that have died since Satan donned those judicial robes...methinks the numbers won't even be in the same country.

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Exactly my point. We can't quantify how many there were and so for people to use that as an argument for abortion is absurd. Because a minority decide to inflict harm on their child, and risk killing themselves, does not mean the majority should have to standby while a law is made to give them absolution to do as they please. Yes, there are botched abortions, and this is no less a threat, but even if more survive then die, I'm not for making their actions legal.

Maternal Death from Abortions Higher Than Childbirth
Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:00:00 AM GMT


Springfield, Missouri, Mar. 09 (LifesiteNews.com/CWN) - A study of pregnancy-associated deaths published in the latest issue of the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology (AJOG) has found that the mortality rate associated with abortion is 2.95 times higher than that associated with pregnancies carried to term. The study included the entire population of women 15 to 49 years of age in Finland between 1987 and 2000. The researchers linked birth and abortion records to death certificates.

The annual death rate of women who had abortion in the previous year was also 46 percent higher than that of non-pregnant women. Women who carried to term had a significantly lower death rate than non-pregnant women. Non-pregnant women had 57.0 deaths per 100,000, compared to 28.2 for women who carried to term, 51.9 for women who miscarried, and 83.1 for women who had abortions. The authors, led by Mika Gissler of Finland's National Research and Development Center for Welfare and Health, concluded that pregnancy contributes to a healthy effect on women.

The study also revealed the difficulties involved in identifying direct and indirect effects of pregnancy on subsequent deaths. An examination of deaths from natural causes that were identified as "not pregnancy related" revealed that women who had abortions were significantly more likely (1.7 times) to die from natural causes that were not attributed to pregnancy on the death certificates. They were also 6.3 times more likely to die from violent causes.

This is the second record-based study to be published in the last eighteen months to show that death rates following abortion are significantly higher than those associated with birth. The other study, published in the Southern Medical Journal, linked death records to Medi-Cal payments for births and abortions for approximately 173,000 low-income California women. In that study, the researchers discovered that women who had abortions were almost twice as likely to die in the following two years and that the elevated mortality rate of aborting women persisted over at least eight years.

This article courtesy of Catholic World News. To subscribe or for further information, contact

It is so terrible. Hopefully through prayer we can fight this terrible deed.

Credo said:

News flash! Women die during abortion procedures today! Abortion doesn't have to be made illegal for the act to have the possibility of killing the mother along with the child.

I'd be interested in knowing just exactly how many women died during "back-alley" abortions and compare that to the millions of innocent children that have died since Satan donned those judicial robes...methinks the numbers won't even be in the same country.

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I doubt we can ever get good information on it. The coroner of the woman who died would probably create a false or misleading cause of death to save the family from embaressment. This happens a lot today in Africa with AIDS deaths.

It would be difficult to be a member of either party if someone based their political party on their religion. I do not agree with Republicans on many things that can be related to relgion, as I can with Democrats.

But I dont think Jesus wanted us to be too concerned with secular politics.