Grengor said:So what is he left with? Christian theology. Oh no
Brilliand said:By the way, I have calculated the universe to be approximately 10^80 cubic meters in volume right now. This is with a Big Bang sort of expansion for the universe, so I believe the universe is ten billion years old (the Earth is still six thousand, starting at the beginning of the universe).
I am eager to have somebody either agree wiht me or show me to be wrong. I made the calculation myself and am eager for a response of any kind.
Physics is not directly related to evolution (except when creationists try to make silly misapplications of the 2LoT), but YEC does contradict basic tenets of it.Brilliand said:I am YEC, but am still in high school. I don't intend to major in anything related to evolution either, although I study physics almost as a hobby. If you ever see me make an argument (whenever I visit this forum I get sidetracked with the forum games and roleplay) it will involve primarily physics.
By the way, I have calculated the universe to be approximately 10^80 cubic meters in volume right now. This is with a Big Bang sort of expansion for the universe, so I believe the universe is ten billion years old (the Earth is still six thousand, starting at the beginning of the universe).
I am eager to have somebody either agree wiht me or show me to be wrong. I made the calculation myself and am eager for a response of any kind.
RoboMastodon said:Physics is not directly related to evolution (except when creationists try to make silly misapplications of the 2LoT), but YEC does contradict basic tenets of it.
Radiometric dating:
Take Quantum Mechanics and apply the principle of quantum tunneling to the nucleus to get the probability of the nucleus decaying at any given moment. Now with this probability you know that at any given period of time, a fraction of the particles in your sample are going to decay, and this fraction is proportional to the number of particles you have.
dN = kNdt
dN is the change in particles. k is the constant, N is the number of particles you have. dt is the change in time
dN/dt = kN
solve this and you get
N(t) = N_0 * e^(-kt)
N_0 is the number of particles you started out with.
Every nucleus has a given probability of decaying at any given moment. There current exists no known way to change this probability except for the obvious:
-Changing the number of protons and/or neutrons in the nucleus (thus changing the type of nucleus)
-Putting the nucleus in a relativistic frame (either by moving really really fast, or subjecting it to lots and lots of gravity).
-Extremely high temperatures.
As such, your claim that the Earth is 6,000 years old, contradicts a basic consequence of physics considering that various dating methods (different isotopes and whatnot) applied to many different samples all give an age of the Earth of about 4.6 billion years.
There are also objects that are about 13 billion light years away, thus contradicting your "10 billion year earth" universe hypothesis.
wagsbags said:Radioisotope dating doesn't need to know what N_0 is.
Even if you were right when you first made the calculation, you would no longer be correct now, seeing as how the universe is expanding at an increasing rate. I'm interested in those calculations as well.By the way, I have calculated the universe to be approximately 10^80 cubic meters in volume right now.
Grengor said:So what is he left with? Christian theology. Oh no
Maxwell511 said:Why is this? Honestly I thought because they could see the other isotopes. I know you will know more about it than me. Thanks in advance.
The abundance of the daughter isotope tells you how much has decayed. The presence of the parent isotope tells you how much didn't decay. If you know the half-life. Say N_d is the number of daughter particles and N_p is the number of parent particles. (t is what we're trying to find--the age of the rock)wagsbags said:I can't really figure out my notes but it does have to do with other isotopes and involves ratios between parent, daughter and another stable daughter isotope. I'll try to figure out exactly how it works a little later but I've got some work to do. Also http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html#page%2022 explains it at least a little.
RoboMastodon said:The abundance of the daughter isotope tells you how much has decayed. The presence of the parent isotope tells you how much didn't decay. If you know the half-life. Say N_d is the number of daughter particles and N_p is the number of parent particles. (t is what we're trying to find--the age of the rock)
N_p = N_0e^(-kt)
(How much is left over is equal to how much the equation predicts should be left over)
N_p + N_d = N_0
(The sum of how much of the parent isotope there is plus how much the daughter isotope should equal the original quantity of the parent isotope).
N_p + N_d = N_p*e^(kt)
You have N_p, you have N_d, you have k (k=ln(2)/half-life), just solve for t. Also notice that in the last equation, knowledge of N_0 is not required.
Edit - I should also add that it is assumed that the daughter isotope is not present at t=0 and that everything that is inside the sample, stays in the sample. Otherwise, the equations get more complicated but still, far from undoable.
Edit2 - It also assumes that the daughter isotope is stable, otherwise, you have to factor that in too.
The universe isn't expanding that fast, compared with its size. It should take quite a lot of time for my calculation to become wrong; I'm only claiming it to the nearest order of magnitude, and I rounded up.Even if you were right when you first made the calculation, you would no longer be correct now, seeing as how the universe is expanding at an increasing rate. I'm interested in those calculations as well.
Brilliand said:I justified this against my YEC beliefs by claiming that the Earth was far younger than the universe, despite having the same start date, by virtue of relativity.
Huh? Perhaps Im misunderstanding, but this doesnt make much sense. How do you conclude relativity from Genesis? Are there any other time spans/ages we can fudge by claiming relativity? You say that you used the big bang model in your calculations. Why should we see this abrupt and arbitrary shift in physics as anything other than rationalization?Brilliand said:I justified this against my YEC beliefs by claiming that the Earth was far younger than the universe, despite having the same start date, by virtue of relativity. I havent' actually pursued that line of thought.