Pastor offers US$1 million for bible verses

Aussie · Dec 17, 2001

Check this news article out.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908

What do you guys think?

Yauming · Dec 18, 2001

I think he's just misguided. Why doesn't anyone ask him "Where does it say in the bible that we are to set Saturday - holy"

Besides, the Western name for the 6th day "Saturday" - comes from a pagan deity Saturn IIRC.... ooohh or maybe its name came SATAN....

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made" (Genesis 2:3).

So which is the seventh day of our week?

The best reply to give? Sure dude, thanks for coming again, see you later... NOT.

[This message has been edited by Yauming (edited 19 December 2001).]

kikid · Dec 18, 2001

the seventh day we are commanded to keep as the sabbath. The jews have always observed the seventh day and it falls on what we call Saturday.

Sunday was designated by the roman catholic church to be a holy day of worship, as were christmas, easter, and halloween. None of those I mentioned were observed by Jesus or his disciples. Nor did Jesus or the disciples instruct Christians to do so. They are traditions of men. Refer to your bible about how God feels about traditions of men.

foo · Dec 18, 2001

Saturday is the seventh or Sabbath day. That's why you see all the Jews going to the Synagogues on Saturday.

Sunday is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. Christians meet together on the first day of the week to "break bread" and living in observance of the ressurection of Jesus.
e.g. Acts 20:7, 1 Cor 16:2

St. Ignatius says Christians are "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also Our Life rose again".

Do you think those two verses are good enough for me to claim the money?

kikid · Dec 18, 2001

Not good enough, the days in the time of Christ were from sundown to sundown --- the disciples "broke bread" on what we now refer to as Sat evening -- to them it was the first day of the week or Sunday.

SOS · Dec 18, 2001

In the end, it makes no real difference - there is no point being legalistic or ritualistic - as long as we set aside one day of rest to worship God.

Yauming · Dec 19, 2001

Originally posted by kikid:
Not good enough, the days in the time of Christ were from sundown to sundown --- the disciples "broke bread" on what we now refer to as Sat evening -- to them it was the first day of the week or Sunday.

Don't you mean from *sunset* to sundown?

kikid · Dec 19, 2001

yep, you know I knew exactly what I meant when I wrote it, but now re-reading it, I see I wasn't very clear in my thinking or writing.........

foo · Dec 19, 2001

Originally posted by kikid:
Not good enough, the days in the time of Christ were from sundown to sundown --- the disciples "broke bread" on what we now refer to as Sat evening -- to them it was the first day of the week or Sunday.

Which would mean that the seventh day is Friday night. Which means the Seventh Day Adventists have it wrong anyway. So if they want to shift the meaning of "days" then the two verses would be good enough.

Yauming · Dec 19, 2001

But what of the changes to the (Gregorian) calender and the leap days etc.. how do the Seventh Day Addys take into account of that? Are they seriously believing that Saturday is the actual week day that God made Sabbath? To be chronologically accurate, you got to ask God.

kikid · Dec 20, 2001

hmmm, dunno

well, have the Jews always kept their calendar (not changing days and such)?? I suspect they have just as they have always kept the festivals and sabbath. I am not familiar with the Jewish year to comment any more on the subject, but will print one out (and read up on it) it for my own benefit and curiosity.

foo · Dec 20, 2001

Originally posted by Yauming:
But what of the changes to the (Gregorian) calender and the leap days etc.. how do the Seventh Day Addys take into account of that? Are they seriously believing that Saturday is the actual week day that God made Sabbath? To be chronologically accurate, you got to ask God.

The Gregorian calendar didn't change the number of days in a week. So the first day of the week is still Sunday. The only difference is whether or not you believe the day starts at sunset or sunrise.

In terms of other things, the Jewish calendar is a lunar one. That's why Hannukah moves day in the Gregorian calendar but is always on the 25th Kislev in the Jewish calendar. Also explains why Easter moves around from year to year because it is based on the time of Passover (which is a fixed date in the Jewish calendar).

I honestly believe that Saturday is the Sabbath.. but I don't believe it's as important as celebrating the resurrection. Technically, if you observe the sabbath, you aren't allowed to do anything remotely physical. IF you see a SDA doing some gardening/shopping/jogging/walking on a Saturday, you can call them a hypocrite...

kikid · Dec 20, 2001

I have only found info that supports Sat. as the Sabbath

here is an interesting link and quote:

http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/saccal/festbook/newcvnt.html

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day."

We now ask, for the sake of all the respect and honest analysis that this subject deserves, what was the point of the Master giving this kind of advice to His predominantly Jewish followers, who all kept the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) if the Sabbath commandment was going to be abolished at the cross? Why advise them to keep a commandment, and even pray to God that He would arrange circumstances to facilitate its keeping, if the Sabbath command would supposedly be obsolete at the time of Jerusalem's fall?

rkbo · Dec 27, 2001

The Bible inferrs many thing that it does not out right say. Where does the Bible say it's ok to drive to Church in automobiles????? I think this verse says it all.
Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(KJV)

If that's not good enough look at this one.
Rom 14:5-8
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
(KJV)

Yauming · Dec 29, 2001

Originally posted by foo:
The Gregorian calendar didn't change the number of days in a week. So the first day of the week is still Sunday. The only difference is whether or not you believe the day starts at sunset or sunrise.

*******************************

Foo, you don't get it. Due to leap days etc.. errors in the calculation of months in the post-modern era, people were eventually forced to make changes to the calender, ie. make several weeks "disappear". Example: Europeans were "celebrating" Christmas in Summer time. IIRC, there was a riot in Europe in the 15th century when the governments "wiped out" a few weeks.

Not only that, but due to wars and disasters the recording of events and days fall into error.

Imagine this, if people got thrown out of Eden or enslaved and made to build pyramids night and day for 400 years or got lost in the desert wilderness for 40 years. After awhile, people probably forget whether today - this day - is a "Thursday" or "Friday"? And does it matter?

A day ... any day can be called anything. I'm sure if we had a nuclear holocast now - the survivors would not be taking accurate records to remember whether tomorrow was Sunday. What matters most is not whether the day that we call "Sunday" or "Friday" was the actual week day that God ordained as Sabbath... sure ask Him if you want to know but that we keep one day in the week aside to rest from our labors. Our many Christians do that anyway? They are busy cleaning their houses, doing their homework, preparing for their exams, fixing their cars....

BTW in jest, I asked God and He told me that we got the days mixed up a little. He said that 8,000 years ago, he ordained this day as the 2nd day of creation and its not called "Tuesday" - a pagan name anyhow. Just kidding....

rollinTHUNDER · Dec 30, 2001

We were to remember to keep the Sabbath Holy. I'm not real sure if He was trying to say that a particular day was Holy. I see something else though. I always thought Holy meant: to be set apart or righteous. To me, I see A Righteous King coming soon, to Rule and Reign on the Day of the Lord, the seventh day. A thousand years is but a day to the Lord. Millenium? rollinTHUNDER

foo · Jan 2, 2002

Originally posted by Yauming:
Foo, you don't get it. Due to leap days etc.. errors in the calculation of months in the post-modern era, people were eventually forced to make changes to the calender, ie. make several weeks "disappear". Example: Europeans were "celebrating" Christmas in Summer time. IIRC, there was a riot in Europe in the 15th century when the governments "wiped out" a few weeks.

How would that have been? The Gregorian calendar didn't come into use till the 16th century when ordered by Caesar in 1560-something.
Before that, the calendar was fully lunar.

The Jewish calendar still is.
But in any case, afaik, there has never been an interruption to the 7-day week cycle during any calendar reform or change.

But you can always check given old records. Astronomy and mathamatics have a strong link and you can calculate what the day of the week it is for any given date.

But back to the original topic. You can always say that you are following ISO standard ISO-8601 which says Monday is the first day of the week.

By the way, you do know that the current names could be called "pagan" since they are named after the planets. Tuesday is Tiw's Day. Tiw is the Nordic name for Mars. In French, Tuesday is Mardi. Sunday was in Latin "Solis day". i.e. Day of the Sun.. Sun-Day.

Yauming · Jan 2, 2002

Yes Foo, I do know that the days of the week are named after pagen gods.

Is the lunar calander 100% accurate then? By using that system can one plot the specific days that God began creation and then rested? Perhaps the seventh day adventist should abandon the currently used Gregorian calender then?

Yauming · Jan 4, 2002

Hello Foo,

Are you saying that the old records go back towards the days of the garden of Eden or Noah's flood?

To accurately calculate which was the original Sabbath day - you would need to know when was the first day of creation. Was it 6049 years, 6 months and 2 days ago or 100,890 years, 1 month and 5 days ago????

Originally posted by foo:

But you can always check given old records. Astronomy and mathamatics have a strong link and you can calculate what the day of the week it is for any given date.

TheBear · Jan 4, 2002

Actually, the seven day cycle is simply a seven day cycle. No mystery. And, regardless of the name of the days, or how the names changed, or how Pope Gregory chopped off several DATES to start a new calander, seven days is seven days. Real easy to keep cyclic.
Therefore, the evening of what we know today as "Friday", until the evening of what we know today as "Saturday", is the same seven day Sabbath cycle observed by Jews for thousands of years.

To be continued......

Pastor offers US$1 million for bible verses

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