your tribal descent

Yes it is. Most are not aware of their tribal origin unless their name is Cohen, Kahn, Kahan, Levitt, etc.

And the tribe of Judah is where we get the designation "Jew" or "Jewish"

Actually, most are not aware of their tribe, only those who have a surname derived from Hebraic tribal name. For example, "Siverman", while a Jewish surname, does not indicate one of the tribes. My name as well, "Dillman", again while a Jewish name, does not indicate which tribe.

Still, there are some who know through tradition or their surname.

I do, however, know that my grandma is at least from Manasseh At least that's what our family tradition is... hehe... but I'm not sure about the other grandparents.... no clue what so ever.

They have found genetic markers for the Levi tribe - I wonder if they can use that as a spring board and locate markers for the rest??

Now, talk about technology that is both a blessing and a horror!!

BTW, is Judah, as a specific tribe, truly traceable in lineage now?

Could their Messianic line be located in current Jewry?

That is the line from which the Jews expect a Messiah to come from.

Which Jewish woman would be blessed to birth Messiah Yeshua into our age?


That would be too good to be true and that would be a knockout!!

I assume Judah is still present as a blood line in current Jewry, yes, but my question is... can it be traced as a true lineage and could it be validly verified if "Messiah" came nowadays?

Zemirah said:

I assume Judah is still present as a blood line in current Jewry, yes, but my question is... can it be traced as a true lineage and could it be validly verified if "Messiah" came nowadays?

Click to expand...

It could only be verified by the Spirit since records were all destroyed .

The Jewish Messiah is one who brings peace to the world and gets everyone to

obey G-d. This description seems to fit a human born on earth and not

an angel who appears out of the blue.

The lost tribes of Israel were lost for a reason, as Hosea prophecies to Ephraim as "loammi" - not my people, but then becoming as "Sons of the Living God".

Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
They are to spring to new life as a seed planted in the ground coming to new life or new birth. The son Jezreel denotes this in his name. They will come to the aid of their brother Judah and are Notzrim - watchmen - netzer - hidden ones. Isaiah 11:1 foretells our being "delivered preserved". As scattered Ephraim we are preserved in Yeshua. We have "survived (Assyria's) sword" and have "found grace in the wilderness" (Jer. 31:2; EZ. 20:15,17,35; Hoea 2:14)

Jer.31:6 Arise, and let us go up to Zion, To Yahveh our God . We are the watchmen, Notzrim, preserved in Yeshua and have found grace in the wilderness, as the name Ephraim means to flourish in captivity.

Jer 3:18 In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together from the land of the north to the land that I gave your fathers as an inheritance.

Zech.9:13 When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man. 14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Zech 10:6-10 I will strengthen the house of Judah, and will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them back, because I have had compassion on them; and they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Yahweh their Elohim and I will answer them. Ephraim will be like a mighty man, and their heart will be glad as if from wine; indeed, their children will see it and be glad, their heart will rejoice in Yahweh. I will whistle for them to gather them together,for I have redeemed them; and they will be as numerous as they were before. When I scatter them among the peoples, they will remember Me in far countries, and they with their children will live and come back. I will bring them back from the land of Egypt and gather them from Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon until no room can be found for them.

The two houses of Israel must be united before the end comes, and all the tribes will be know their heritage and returned to their land.

The lost tribes of Israel were lost for a reason, as Hosea prophecies to Ephraim as "loammi" - not my people, but then becoming as "Sons of the Living God".

Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
They are to spring to new life as a seed planted in the ground coming to new life or new birth. The son Jezreel denotes this in his name. They will come to the aid of their brother Judah and are Notzrim - watchmen - netzer - hidden ones. Isaiah 11:1 foretells our being "delivered preserved". As scattered Ephraim we are preserved in Yeshua. We have "survived (Assyria's) sword" and have "found grace in the wilderness" (Jer. 31:2; EZ. 20:15,17,35; Hoea 2:14)

Jer.31:6 Arise, and let us go up to Zion, To Yahveh our God . We are the watchmen, Notzrim, preserved in Yeshua and have found grace in the wilderness, as the name Ephraim means to flourish in captivity.

Jer 3:18 In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together from the land of the north to the land that I gave your fathers as an inheritance.

Zech.9:13 When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man. 14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Zech 10:6-10 I will strengthen the house of Judah, and will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them back, because I have had compassion on them; and they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Yahweh their Elohim and I will answer them. Ephraim will be like a mighty man, and their heart will be glad as if from wine; indeed, their children will see it and be glad, their heart will rejoice in Yahweh. I will whistle for them to gather them together,for I have redeemed them; and they will be as numerous as they were before. When I scatter them among the peoples, they will remember Me in far countries, and they with their children will live and come back. I will bring them back from the land of Egypt and gather them from Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon until no room can be found for them.

The two houses of Israel must be united before the end comes, and all the tribes will know their heritage and returned to their land.

simchat_torah said:

Actually, most are not aware of their tribe, only those who have a surname derived from Hebraic tribal name. For example, "Siverman", while a Jewish surname, does not indicate one of the tribes. My name as well, "Dillman", again while a Jewish name, does not indicate which tribe.

Still, there are some who know through tradition or their surname.

I do, however, know that my grandma is at least from Manasseh At least that's what our family tradition is... hehe... but I'm not sure about the other grandparents.... no clue what so ever.

Click to expand...

I did not discover that my grandmother was a Jew or what is she??, until long after she died. This is so confusing to me. Her surname was Jonas, any clues? She never talked about it, she just refused to. I have tried to research this and can only go back to her father. I just run into a dead ends. I know nothing about names and such.

sigh - there are no "lost tribes"

Henaynei said:

sigh - there are no "lost tribes"

Click to expand...

There just isnt any such thing? Or is there, but God knows who they are? And we dont need to know? Like I said, I'm confused here.

The term "lost tribes" generally relates to the myth various European ethnic groups are actually Jews: Danes are supposed to be the tribe of Dan, Swedes are Simeon and so forth. It is generally a component of some version or another of replacement theology in which the proponents try to put forth "proof" the the Jews are not really Israel, or are only a small part of Israel, and that numerous other people groups or ethnic groups are ALSO Israel.

A review of scripture will find that there is no indication of "lost tribes" but rather that all tribes were well represented in Israel of Yeshua's time. In 70's AD it is true that a great portion of the Jewish people were forcibly dispersed by the Romans after the failed Bar Kochba revolt. These peoples have, by and large until the last 100 years, firmly kept their peoplehood and traditions - being easily identified by their persecutors and singled out for pogroms and Holocaust.

My question to all these sudden wanna-be-Jews is why didn't they speak up during the pogroms and the Holocaust and tell the evil men that they were killing the wrong people?? In many cases the only "proof" they have that they are Jewish or Israel is a "knowing in their heart" or the fact that they are saved and have a desire to follow Torah is proof or they have some vague knowledge of some unprovable Jewish ancestry several generations back.

Some in the "Two-house" or Ephriam movement have even said that it is their destiny to take over the land of Israel and replace the usuper Judahites who "falsely claim to be Israel."

All this is part of the phenomenon sweeping the body of people who want the supposed blessings of being the "chosen" or "first born" but who have little or no idea of the true obligation or responsibility or burden of being the "chosen." Not infrequently they are of the groups that delicately pick and choose which mitzvot they believe they are obligated to obey or carry.

Ah... too tired to make this make sense.... others can do better..... I am in mourning and should not even be trying to communicate...... sitting shiva for my father-in-law in the next few days.....

Shavua tov....

tribe of Judah