Would God give us an indication when Satan is chained?

Why not?

RVincent said:

Why not?

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This is the judgment and destruction, of "the grapes of wrath"!

Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to Him that had the sharp Sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp Sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth: for "her" grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it "into" the great winepress of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out "of" the winepress, even unto the horses bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Lady Goodnews,

I'm sorry. I was in the middle of something and the response I gave was quick and unconsidered.

(Rev 21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

nations: here are those ethnos again, in the eternity. Not destroyed, but alive and well.

And if we go back to Rev. 14:

(Rev 14:9-10) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, {10} The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

The "vine of the earth" being reaped are those people who worshipped the antichrist. The ethnos are those nations who fell for the idolatry of confusion (v. 8).

(Rev 14:20) And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Compare to:

(Zec 14:12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Doesn't that sound sick? Don't worry, it's the changing of bodies (1 Cor. 15:44, 51-52). We've still got a thousand years before judgment.

RVincent said:

"In much the same way, would you then argue against Adam and Eve's fall affecting people born thousands of years later?"

This is unrelated. Romans 5 tells us that we all sin, so the penalty of death passes from Adam to us:

(Rom 5:12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

"for that all have sinned" we deserve the same penalty.

(1 Cor 15:21-23) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. {22} For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. {23} But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The subject is man, what is passed to us is death and not sin. We sin on our own, each punished by death, for that sin.

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RVincent said:

Who told you I was talking about babies?

The penalty which is death falls on all people.

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Cough... babies are man as well --- babies are human..

The last time I checked babies were very much part of us.... the human race cursed

with death as a result of Adam's fall.

RVincent said:

"In much the same way, would you then argue against Adam and Eve's fall affecting people born thousands of years later?"

This is unrelated. Romans 5 tells us that we all sin, so the penalty of death passes from Adam to us:

(Rom 5:12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

"for that all have sinned" we deserve the same penalty.

(1 Cor 15:21-23) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. {22} For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. {23} But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The subject is man, what is passed to us is death and not sin. We sin on our own, each punished by death, for that sin.

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Why did the righteous Noah die? He went from dust to dust.

Why did the righteous Abraham and Moses die?

Dust to dust they went ..... your theory of people dying because of their sins

is unfounded.

I don't write the verses, I only quote them.

I think the poster was talking about why babies die. Well, accidents happen.

(Luke 13:4) Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

What exactly is the question?

(Rom 5:14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Sir, kindly, don't argue with me. Argue with Paul.

RVincent said:

(Rom 5:14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Sir, kindly, don't argue with me. Argue with Paul.

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So you perfectly agree with what God did to the descendants and relatives of the pseudo-lizard-later-snake who spake to Eve in Genesis 3.

Nevertheless they all slid on their bellies, irrespective of whether they

tempted Eve to sin or not.

The Bible indicates clearly that animals and beasts had closer interaction

with humans AND MOST important of all, the concept of VENOMOUS SNAKES

OR VORACIOUS LIONS did not exist before the fall.

Animals could express themselves more eloquently than now...

I believe that the serpent was the Devil and Satan. (Rev. 12:9; 20:2).

RVincent said:

I believe that the serpent was the Devil and Satan. (Rev. 12:9; 20:2).

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Lizards could express themselves before the fall.

Satan was responsible for that action though...

Have you ever seen a lizard express himself? It looks like this:

Have you ever seen an old snake fossil? It looks like this:



Age -Eocene
Location - Messel, Germany
45 million years

RVincent said:

hello saltoearth.

I certainly agree that overcomers do partake of some of the benefits of Christ, but the throne is for One only.

(Rev 12:5) And she brought forth a Man Child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her Child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

Cp. Matt. 19:28; 25:31. Luke 1:32. Acts 2:30. Heb. 1:8; 8:1; 12:2.

Believers may approach the throne, but only to obtain mercy (Heb. 4:16).

Man Child. This is somewhat indicitive also. It means literally a "male son".

I wish I could get my stupid Greek Interlinear to export to text correctly!

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This topic is definately worthy of further study. The two verses I showed you definately allow a connection between overcomers and the Man Child. There is no strong evidence in Rev 12:5 that suggests being caught up to the throne is SITTING on the throne of Majesty and Power. We are spiritually in the presence of the throne both day and night worshiping God.

like I said before in my first post. It seems inconsistent to take the Woman as a symbol of a large group of people and them makes this large group of people's off-spring a singular man. If you can find other examples of this in scripture please show me.

Salt

Wowzers! Thank you!

That will help me out on another forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You clever character.

wowzers!

RVincent said:

hello saltoearth.

I certainly agree that overcomers do partake of some of the benefits of Christ, but the throne is for One only.

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Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

A carnal reading will never unlock the mysteries of God. The Holy Spirit wrote the book. The Holy Spirit must interpret the book.

RVincent said:

We will have no problem seeing Satan when he appears with his angels. He'll be the beautiful cherub saying "I'm Jesus! I'm back!"

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It is a very good point. As the arch deciever, Satan will go to any lengths to appear to us as something we should draw close to. As we evolve, Satan must learn more about us must get better and better at disguising himself as a 'lamb' !

It makes you wonder just what apparantly innocent and nice things that have happened in the past, things that maybe the repercussions hav'nt caught up with yet, were actually the work of Satan ?

best wishes

memes

saltoearth said:

This topic is definately worthy of further study. The two verses I showed you definately allow a connection between overcomers and the Man Child. There is no strong evidence in Rev 12:5 that suggests being caught up to the throne is SITTING on the throne of Majesty and Power. We are spiritually in the presence of the throne both day and night worshiping God.

like I said before in my first post. It seems inconsistent to take the Woman as a symbol of a large group of people and them makes this large group of people's off-spring a singular man. If you can find other examples of this in scripture please show me.

Salt

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The theory of overcomers is not valid because ALL THE TRIBULATION

TAKES PLACE AFTER Revelation 12:8 AFTER SATAN IS CAST downto earth.

So how could there be a set of human Christian overcomers in Revelation 12:5, when the periods of torment is much later AFTER Revelation 12:17?


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What exactly is the persecution that some Christians are supposed to overcome in Revelation 12:2-5?

Who is the one who torments believers on Earth at that time in Revelation 12:2?

It is a false doctrine because there is no scripture that teaches of tribulation of believers in Revelation 12:2 that people resist in order to be labelled overcomers.

The period of tribulation IS WELL DOCUMENTED WELL AFTER REVELATION12:2... in Revelation 13:1-18.

There is no tribulation of Christians before Revelation 12:2.