Tried to edit... and this is my opinion -- I should let PP answer for himself.InnerPhyre said:
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Pat Robertson lectures Catholic Church on 700 Club
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PeterPaul
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I didn't think it was undiplomatic at all. Actually it was a cold statement with no feelings attached. The reason Bush says he is just in the war is because The Holy Spirit told him. By that measure other Protestants say the Spirit is telling them something else. So, because of relativism we have a very difficult posture (at least I did when I was a Protestant). Who is correct? Who is really feeling the Spirit?
That's all.
That's all.
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Toney said:
Hey, good point. This is a rather disengenuous way of saying what you think without having to say it! I've gotten some benefit out of some of Pat's programs, but I have never cared for him personally. There's something about him that IMO is not sincere and self-serving. He likes to team up with Catholics when it suits him, but will turn around the next minute and be critical as he was in this instance.
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What are the percentage of Protestant churches in America relative to the percentage of Catholic churches? To say that more charges of abuse are coming from Protestant churches than Catholic doesn't say much.
Homosexual abuse by a priest is not the kind of thing that is likely to be reported, and I think the percentage of accused priests at 4% probably suggests 10%+ have abused.
Homosexual abuse by a priest is not the kind of thing that is likely to be reported, and I think the percentage of accused priests at 4% probably suggests 10%+ have abused.
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How do you arrive at such a figure? Many "accused" priests are not guilty.RhetorTheo said:
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Would you mind backing up your assertion with documented facts?RhetorTheo said:
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"I think the CMR numbers are striking, yet quite reasonable," says Anson Shupe, anIndiana University professor who's written books about church abuse. "To me it says Protestants are less reluctant to come forward because they don't put their clergy on as high a pedestal as Catholics do with their priests."
Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common. He discovered this in 1998 while going door to door in Dallas-Ft. Worth communities where he asked 1,607 families if they'd experienced abuse from those within their church. Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.
James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren't the major offenders.
"The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers," he says.
"What drove leaders to begin to respond to this issue was not the welfare of children," Cobble says. "It was fear of large, costly lawsuits."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html
Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common. He discovered this in 1998 while going door to door in Dallas-Ft. Worth communities where he asked 1,607 families if they'd experienced abuse from those within their church. Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.
James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren't the major offenders.
"The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers," he says.
"What drove leaders to begin to respond to this issue was not the welfare of children," Cobble says. "It was fear of large, costly lawsuits."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html
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Opinions are not facts, but if you wish to assert that your opinions are false to the extent that they are not facts, that's fine with me.
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Because several cases, like that of Cardinal Bernadin in Chicago, were dismissed because the plaintiff lied... many use this as a way to "get revenge" on priests, or have had therapists "suggest" so-called repressed memories of sexual abuse that never occurred. I don't have stats on those but have seen plenty of reports on this on secular TV news.RhetorTheo said:
This is not an "opinion."
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William Reid has written that "careful studies have indicated...that child molesters commit an average of sixty offenses for every incident that comes to public attention."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex8.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex8.htm
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But does he also report than 80% of all sexual abuse cases are done by married men, 95% done by a member of one's own family.
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Bastoune said:
(sarcasm time)
And the solution to all this molestation, is for men to NOT marry and NOT have families.
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Motor City Christian
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Bastoune said:Making one's personal interpretation of Scripture one's God...everything is relative in Protestantism based on personal interpretation and what it means to an individual alone apart from the Body of Christ and teaching authority -- cf. Eph. 4 & 1 Cor. 12; Luke 10:16... (Calvinists and Arminians read the same Bible and come to totally opposite conclusions, for example...)
Scripture as one's God....lol. Well, Scripture is from God. They are God's words to us. You are mistaken about personal interpretation by Protestants. We all believe that there are absolutes. We may disagree about them, but that is difference of opinion, not relativism. Big difference... Also as humans, we have ALL committed sin, we all need salvation from God. When you go to heaven, you will have to answer to God alone. That being said, I think Christians need to build each other up and keep each other accountable.
Now I know why there are few protestants that hang around OBOB. Just when I thought I was getting along with you guys......oh well.
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The "relativism" comment offended me too. If you put it that way, then every Protestant is "relativistic," and, according to that post, commits idolatry.InnerPhyre said:
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Take heart you guys! 
Whackos like Pat R. forget that people are a lot smarter than he thinks...and they're converting !
I expect the trend of people "coming home" will pick up as the insanity gets worse...you see it on this board every day...people come here, see how wonderful and knowledgeable you guys are, ask their questions, hash it out in their own hearts, and then show back up with icon changes...
Really! I really do think many, many more Protestants are going to be converting in the next few years in unprecedented numbers...Save this post! It's my prediction for the decade!
Whackos like Pat R. forget that people are a lot smarter than he thinks...and they're converting !
I expect the trend of people "coming home" will pick up as the insanity gets worse...you see it on this board every day...people come here, see how wonderful and knowledgeable you guys are, ask their questions, hash it out in their own hearts, and then show back up with icon changes...
Really! I really do think many, many more Protestants are going to be converting in the next few years in unprecedented numbers...Save this post! It's my prediction for the decade!
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Bastoune said:
My understanding is that the castrated live longer - it's better for the health. If the priests are to be celibate anyway, it might be good all the way around.
j/k ... I think? ....
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I don't think Pat Robertson is mentally ill, but I think his belief system and willingness to believe it makes him the equivalent.
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Wolseley
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RhetorTheo said:
Well, here we go again.
Seems like I have to drag this old thread up about every six months or so......
Start here, and go for the next several pages. Read and enjoy:
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=923144&postcount=46
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