Catholics MUST believe in a literal Adam/Eve

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

Pope Pius XII said so in Humanae Generis in 1950.

The Church rejects a polygenistic belief - i.e. that mankind is descended form multiple "first parents." HG states that the entire human race is descended from one set of people - the two people we call Adam and Eve.

Here is the relevant part:

"When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own."

Did you know you are obligated to believe in a literal Adam/Eve? Indeed, and I don't know what that does to your freedom to believe in evolution (of humans, at least).

Source: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p.../hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html

geocajun · Mar 5, 2004

Right, we believe that we all decsend from the first man and first women.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

Yes. I think a lot of theistic evolutionary minded Catholics assume that they are at liberty to view Adam/Eve as a symbolic representation or something. Not true.

PeterPaul · Mar 5, 2004

I believe in Adam and Eve...(not Steve)

KC Catholic · Mar 5, 2004

PeterPaul said:
I believe in Adam and Eve...(not Steve)

I thought you were going to start agreeing with EVERYTHING!

PeterPaul · Mar 5, 2004

KC, this was a post prior to my conversion. LOL

loveisallyouneed · Mar 5, 2004

I believe in Adam and Eve and I don't think it's contrary to theistic evolution. Is it?

Bastoune · Mar 5, 2004

loveisallyouneed said:
I believe in Adam and Eve and I don't think it's contrary to theistic evolution. Is it?

Not at all! There was ONE man through whom sin came into the world (cf. Rom. 5:12)... that's all that matters. The rest (in terms of "theistic evolution) can be reconciled to this reality by various hypotheses.

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

Bastoune said:
Not at all! There was ONE man through whom sin came into the world (cf. Rom. 5:12)... that's all that matters. The rest (in terms of "theistic evolution) can be reconciled to this reality by various hypotheses.

If all mankind is descended from two people, how can that be reconciled with theistic evolution, Tim?

RhetorTheo · Mar 5, 2004

I didn't know that. What happens if a Catholic believes in something other than Adam and Eve, and/or believes the Pope is fallible?

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

RhetorTheo said:
I didn't know that. What happens if a Catholic believes in something other than Adam and Eve, and/or believes the Pope is fallible?

You don't believe the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith/morals that are binding on all the faithful?

Disciple 3 · Mar 5, 2004

Well in my readings I discovered a few interesting tid bits. The Bible never says they were the only ones created, it says they were the first. If they were the only ones how come God said, "And YHWH said to him, Therefore, whoever slays Cain, it shall be revenged sevenfold. And YHWH set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should smite him"? This implies they were not the only ones, on the contrary, it seems they had company.

If God decrees, "Whoever kills cain will be cursed" who could he be refering to? Adam and Eve would not kill thier son, so this would mean others were created. And Adam was merley the first. More evidence of this comes in the next verse to the one above, Genesis 4:16-17, "And Cain went out from the presence of YHWH, and dwelt in the land of Nod, toward the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city; and he called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch". Nod, on the east of Eden and inhabited by people, what could this mean, it could only mean that there were more. Not only that, were did Cain's wife come from? He couldn't have sexual relations with a sister. Why? Because we know that this would be genetically wrong and would cause deformities. So, he could only have a son by another, unrelated women. If he didn't his son would have been mentally or physically disabled in some way.

Genesis 5: 6-7, "And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. And Seth lived after he had begotten Enosh eight hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters". Yet another instance of one of the sons of Adam having a son who was married and begot children, so again, where did his wife come from?

I believe that Adam and Eve were real, living and breathing human beings. However, thier is evidence of them not being the only created man and woman. From marriage records and birth records in the book of Genesis we see that thier are more people living in the land of Nod to the east of Eden, outside the garden. We also see Seth and Cain having children, this could only mean an outside secondary creation story, not found in the Bible.

geocajun · Mar 5, 2004

RhetorTheo said:
What happens if a Catholic believes in something other than Adam and Eve, and/or believes the Pope is fallible?

Then they are a Dissenting Catholic, bordering closely on schismatic, and if they reject a defined truth, then they are heretical in their thinking.

RhetorTheo · Mar 5, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
You don't believe the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith/morals that are binding on all the faithful?

I believe the Pope has a special teaching authority, and infallible, when there is a disagreement between the bishops of the various cities and there is no ecumenical council on the issue. However, that hasn't been an issue post-1054 because the other cities are not currently in communion, and I question whether the post-1054 councils are valid ecumenical councils because the Orthodox were not present and participating.

geocajun · Mar 5, 2004

I highly recommend this for anyone curious on the Church's position on Evolution:

Magisterium Is Concerned with Question of Evolution For It Involves Conception of Man - Pope John Paul II

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

This implies they were not the only ones, on the contrary, it seems they had company.

Disciple3-

Yes, they did...other children of Adam/Eve that left the area and formed Nod.

Yet another instance of one of the sons of Adam having a son who was married and begot children, so again, where did his wife come from?

Sisters. Incest wasnt yet banned, because genetic mistakes had not yet accumulated in order to make it a problem.

Christy4Christ · Mar 5, 2004

Disciple 3 said:
Well in my readings I discovered a few interesting tid bits. The Bible never says they were the only ones created, it says they were the first. If they were the only ones how come God said, "And YHWH said to him, Therefore, whoever slays Cain, it shall be revenged sevenfold. And YHWH set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should smite him"? This implies they were not the only ones, on the contrary, it seems they had company.

If God decrees, "Whoever kills cain will be cursed" who could he be refering to? Adam and Eve would not kill thier son, so this would mean others were created. And Adam was merley the first. More evidence of this comes in the next verse to the one above, Genesis 4:16-17, "And Cain went out from the presence of YHWH, and dwelt in the land of Nod, toward the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city; and he called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch". Nod, on the east of Eden and inhabited by people, what could this mean, it could only mean that there were more. Not only that, were did Cain's wife come from? He couldn't have sexual relations with a sister. Why? Because we know that this would be genetically wrong and would cause deformities. So, he could only have a son by another, unrelated women. If he didn't his son would have been mentally or physically disabled in some way.

Genesis 5: 6-7, "And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. And Seth lived after he had begotten Enosh eight hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters". Yet another instance of one of the sons of Adam having a son who was married and begot children, so again, where did his wife come from?

I believe that Adam and Eve were real, living and breathing human beings. However, thier is evidence of them not being the only created man and woman. From marriage records and birth records in the book of Genesis we see that thier are more people living in the land of Nod to the east of Eden, outside the garden. We also see Seth and Cain having children, this could only mean an outside secondary creation story, not found in the Bible.

Steven I have often wondered about the same things. I think what you have said makes sense. I do not exactly know the church teaching on this issue.

Does anyone know whether they say anything about the information in the above post?

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

geocajun said:
I highly recommend this for anyone curious on the Church's position on Evolution:

Magisterium Is Concerned with Question of Evolution For It Involves Conception of Man - Pope John Paul II

geo-

Its interesting yes, but it is just speculation by JP2 to a closed audience of scientists...not an ex cathedra Encyclical.

Christy4Christ · Mar 5, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
Disciple3-

Yes, they did...other children of Adam/Eve that left the area and formed Nod.

Doesn't it really say though that Cain left Eden and went to a neighboring area called Nod? Who became his wife? This is a very interesting thread!

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 5, 2004

Christy4Christ said:
Doesn't it really say though that Cain left Eden and went to a neighboring area called Nod? Who became his wife? This is a very interesting thread!

One of his sisters became his wife...see my above post.

Catholics MUST believe in a literal Adam/Eve

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Priest of the holy smackrament

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Well-Known Member

Everybody's gone surfin'...Surfin' U.S.A

Well-Known Member

Catholic Revert!

Well-Known Member

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Melkite

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Well-Known Member

Priest of the holy smackrament

Melkite

Priest of the holy smackrament

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Pro-Christ

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Pro-Christ

ScottBot is Stalking Me!

Similar threads