Satan Bound?

When Jesus descended.

Originally posted by Mandy
Those people in Hades will be judged by their works because they were not redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ. What else would God have to judge them by?

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Mandy,
The saved are judged the same way the unsaved are. By their choice.

The one choice everyone has to make:
Believe and be saved, disbelieve and perish.

Nobody is judged by works, or by the Law of Moses anymore. We are all now judged by that one choice alone.

Originally posted by Mandy
When Jesus descended.

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OK, what are the scriptures that back up that claim?

Mattew 12:40. Plus it is prophecied in the OT.
Psalm 68:18, Ephesians 4:8.

Can I interject? There are problems with the preterist view in my opinion, The Bible encompasses the entirety of human history this side of the Eternal State. Genesis describes in perfect detail the Beginning, and the Revelation (and other passages) predicts the End.

Sorry but since these threads always seem to turn to preterist/futurist debate I wanted to throw that in.

I agree Shaggy.

Also Isaiah 61

Originally posted by parousia70
In the OT, all the dead, Saint and unbeliever alike went to Hades, now, if you are asserting that today only the unsaved are in hades, then you are asserting that the OT Saints have been resurrected out of Hades, and are now in Gods presence.

When exactly do you believe this happened?

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How could/would Jesus be conversing with Moses or Elias if they are in hades?

Also, how would they know of what Jesus came to accomplish?

Luke 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

Luke 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment [was] white [and] glistering.

Luke 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias

Luke 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

The preterist is forced to allegorize obviously literal passages of Text. He comes to Revelation 7:5-8 and is forced to assign spiritual meaning to the listed Twelve Tribes, and the numbers given. He comes to the Seal, Trumpet, and Bowl Judgments, and is forced to allegorize the obviously literal scenery; the "great burning mountain" of 7:8 suddenly becomes something other than a "great burning mountain." The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 become the Old and New Testaments, or something else other than what is obviously meant: That they are two literal humans who will prophesy for 3.5 years in the city of Jerusalem during the yet-future Tribulation Period. Etc.

The preterist, then, is forced to reject sensus literalis in the apocalyptic passages. It is not surprising, then, to note that most modern preterists also reject the Biblical account of a six-day Creation Week, but rather allegorize Genesis 1&2.

Originally posted by parousia70


Futurism dosen't "make" Christ a false prophet, for Chirst is the TRUE prophet...

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You're not hearing what I'm saying.

Christ said He would return before that generation had passed away, correct? Do you believe Christ said that?

When Christ returned in 70AD, that was the fullfillment of His promise to return before that generation passed away, correct?

Therefore, Christ was a true prophet because He did what He said He would do, He did what He prophecied He would do, correct?

Do you agree with these statements?

And if anyone does not agree with these statements, are they not denying that Christ fullfilled His prophecy to return before that generation passed away?

And if someone denies that Christ fullfilled His prophecy to return before that generation passed away, aren't they saying that Christ was a false prophet, since He did not fullfill His own prophecy?

And if someone denies that Christ fullfilled His prophecy to return before that generation passed away, thereby saying Christ's prophecy was false, thereby saying Christ was a false prophet, how can that person be saved?

Exactly Shaggy!

The redeemed and unredeemed will not be judged in the same manner. Christians will not be judged, they will receive rewards or loss of rewards.

Amen!

It is The futurist who is forced to allegorize obviously literal passages of Text. He comes to Revelation 1:1-3 and is forced to assign spiritual meaning to the clear human time parameters set for the books fulfillment.

Contrary to your assertion Shag, those "obviously literal" temporal manifestations are actually "obviously metaphore".

The honest student of scripture needs but a "slender aquaintance" with the OT use of the exact same language of mountains burning, stars falling, earth splitting, heavens rolling up like a scroll, etc,etc... to understand that this is how, time and again, the Bible discusses the Fall of a Nation

Commotions in governments and principalities are described by setting forth language that depicts commotions in the physical universe.

If we interprate all OT prophetic language of the Judgements that came to pass in OT times, exactly the same as you are interprating this exact language in the NT, we would be forced to conclude that the "earth" has been completely destroyed several times already.

Conversley, by comparing scripture w/ scripture, we know that when the Bible uses time indicators attached to prophesy, they are always given to be understood by how time realtes to man, not God. Every time, without fail.

Christians will stand before the Bema Seat of Christ, where as unbelievers will stand before the Great White Throne of judgment.

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
You're not hearing what I'm saying.

Christ said He would return before that generation had passed away, correct? Do you believe Christ said that?

When Christ returned in 70AD, that was the fullfillment of His promise to return before that generation passed away, correct?

Therefore, Christ was a true prophet because He did what He said He would do, He did what He prophecied He would do, correct?

Do you agree with these statements?

And if anyone does not agree with these statements, are they not denying that Christ fullfilled His prophecy to return before that generation passed away?

And if someone denies that Christ fullfilled His prophecy to return before that generation passed away, aren't they saying that Christ was a false prophet, since He did not fullfill His own prophecy?

And if someone denies that Christ fullfilled His prophecy to return before that generation passed away, thereby saying Christ's prophecy was false, thereby saying Christ was a false prophet, how can that person be saved?

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Your conclusion is correct -Futurism makes Christ a false prophet. So, "how can that person be saved?" -SIMPLY, by faith in Christ [as we've said on many many occasions], One's eschatological view doesn't determine their salvation -faith in Christ does.

davo

Originally posted by davo


Your conclusion is correct -Futurism makes Christ a false prophet. So, "how can that person be saved?" -SIMPLY, by faith in Christ [as we've said on many many occasions], One's eschatological view doesn't determine their salvation -faith in Christ does.

davo

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Can someone have faith in a false prophet? I can't have any faith in a false prophet, can you?

Jesus is no false prophet -only futuristic doctrines that deny Jesus returned in and to His generation [as He clearly prophesied] draw this unfortunate conclusion.

Getting back to the subject: Satan Bound?

Even when you crunch the numbers it shows that sin and evil in the world is as a result of the unregenerate heart of man [as the Bible clearly says].

Even if one doesn't agree with the fulfilled view that Satan and the other fallen angels have already been cast into the Lake of Fire -logic says there effect has to be ever diminishing.

How? There only ever were a fixed number of angels created [they don't procreate -and a bodgy interpretation of Gen 6 is no solution], and of this number a fixed amount rebelled. From time immemorial people have been finding peace with God through faith in Him -and today countless millions around the globe are responding in faith to Christ.

So the numbers [by logic] are stacked against the devil and his minions -their fixed numbered against the ever growing base of the saved.

If this be true, and logic says it must some time -when [now or some time in the future] will futurists decide "the devil didn't make me do it -I did it myself" -and recognise the truth of scripture that "the heart is desperately wicked and evil ABOVE ALL else."

None of this of course is an issue for anyone with a preteristic perspective as we acknowledge the reality of scripture that says: the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and before this, the rest were thrown into the Lake of Fire at Christ's Parousia in AD70.

davo

Originally posted by davo

Jesus is no false prophet -only futuristic doctrines that deny Jesus returned in and to His generation [as He clearly prophesied] draw this unfortunate conclusion.

Getting back to the subject: Satan Bound?


davo

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No davo, you can't run away from my question:

"Can someone have faith in a false prophet? I can't have any faith in a false prophet, can you?"