Armenian Orthodox

The Armenian Orthodox are what are known as "Nestorians".

A little history on the Nestorian Heresy:


Nestorius, bishop of Constantinople, believed and taught that the Virgin Mary gave birth to a man, Jesus Christ, not God, the "Logos" ("The Word," Son of God). Thus, he reasoned that the Logos only dwelled in Christ, as in a Temple (Christ, therefore, was only Theophoros : The "Bearer of God"). Consequently, the Virgin Mary should be called "Christotokos," "Mother of Christ" and not "Theotokos," "Mother of God."

Nestorian over emphasized the human nature of Christ at the expense of His divine nature. Our Lord Jesus Christ is one person, not two separate "people" : the Man, Jesus and the Son of God, Logos. The Council therefore decreed that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God (Logos), is complete God and complete man, with a rational soul and body. The Virgin Mary is "Theotokos" because she gave birth not to man but to God who became man. The union of the two natures of Christ took place in such a fashion that one did not disturb the other.

After the Council of Ephesus, the Nestorians split and went their own way. The Armenian Orthodox are part of that group.

Not "Orthodox" inthe true sense of the word at all.

Tikon -

I believe you've got the Armenians confused with the Assyrians. The Assyrians are (or were) Nestorian. The Armenians are actually Non-Chalcedonians.

Gregory the Illuminator brought Christianity to Armenia in the third century and converted King Tiridates, who made Armenia the first Christian kingdom.

Struggles with Persia, then predominantly Nestorian, turned the Armenians in the Monophysite direction. At a council at Etchmiadzin (Valarshabad), in 491, the Armenians rejected the Council of Chalcedon and the Tome of Pope St. Leo the Great.

The "Gregorian" or Armenian Church has been Monophysite ever since.

Maximus said:

Tikon -

I believe you've got the Armenians confused with the Assyrians. The Assyrians are (or were) Nestorian. The Armenians are actually Non-Chalcedonians.

Gregory the Illuminator brought Christianity to Armenia in the third century and converted King Tiridates, who made Armenia the first Christian kingdom.

Struggles with Persia, then predominantly Nestorian, turned the Armenians in the Monophysite direction. At a council at Etchmiadzin (Valarshabad), in 491, the Armenians rejected the Council of Chalcedon and the Tome of Pope St. Leo the Great.

The "Gregorian" or Armenian Church has been Monophysite ever since.

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You are right my brother...got the two mixed up. My apologies.
They are not in communion with us nevertheless......

I am not sure wether they commune each other or not, but from what I understand, there is a specific reason that Chalcedon was worded the way it was, and I don't think it is a matter of terminology. I will try to do a little research and get back to you.

From my understanding they do commune with each other: Indian, Armenian, Ethiopian & Coptic. We recently had an Indian Orthodox come to our parish. He was new to town and was asking if there were any Armenian or Coptic churches here so I assume they are in communion with one another. He was disappointed to find out he couldn't commune at our church and only attended two or three times.

By the way, I've often heard the Armenian church referred to as the Armenian Apostolic Church instead of the Armenian Orthodox eventhough its part of the Oriental Orthodox church family.

nicodemus said:

From my understanding they do commune with each other: Indian, Armenian, Ethiopian & Coptic. We recently had an Indian Orthodox come to our parish. He was new to town and was asking if there were any Armenian or Coptic churches here so I assume they are in communion with one another. He was disappointed to find out he couldn't commune at our church and only attended two or three times.

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From my understanding there are both Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox in the nations of India and Ethiopia...
-Catherine

cbrickell said:

From my understanding there are both Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox in the nations of India and Ethiopia...
-Catherine

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There are some Eastern Orthodox parishes in India that I know about, but they are in the overwhelming minority. Most of the churches in India are Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant. My wife is Indian so the situation of Christianity in India interests me greatly.

The non chalcedonian churches are in commuion with each other they the copts, ethiopians, eritrians, orthodox of india, armenians and syriacs

The Armenian Church along with the Syrian, Ethiopian, Coptic and the Indian-Malabar Church or Church of the Apostle St. Thomas, comprise the 5 churches that rejected not only Eutyches, but also the definitions and acts of Chalcedon due primarily to the Tome of Leo, which "separated' the pactivities of Christ according to human or divine, thus tending strongly toward the dangers and errors of Nestorius.

Eastern Orthodox and Catholics can come to our church and receive communion.Unlike eo We don’t mix water in our wine we take the communion the way Jesus offered it.
I don't understand how could EO condemn the Armenian church for not accepting all the council EO did when they didn't accept all the councils of the RC.

orthedoxy said:

The Armenian Church along with the Syrian, Ethiopian, Coptic and the Indian-Malabar Church or Church of the Apostle St. Thomas, comprise the 5 churches that rejected not only Eutyches, but also the definitions and acts of Chalcedon due primarily to the Tome of Leo, which "separated' the pactivities of Christ according to human or divine, thus tending strongly toward the dangers and errors of Nestorius.

Eastern Orthodox and Catholics can come to our church and receive communion.Unlike eo We don’t mix water in our wine we take the communion the way Jesus offered it.
I don't understand how could EO condemn the Armenian church for not accepting all the council EO did when they didn't accept all the councils of the RC.

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The Councils held after 1054 are NOT valid. After that date the Roman Catholics are considered schismatics. The Church was undivided at Chalcedon, therefore that Council IS valid!
I sincerely hope you guys accept Chalcedon one day, so that we can welcome you back to the fold. It will be much easier for your church than for the Latins...They have hundreds of years of baggage to get rid of, and the idea of Papal Supremacy.

Until that day, all we can do is pray.

St. Tikon said:

The Councils held after 1054 are NOT valid. After that date the Roman Catholics are considered schismatics. The Church was undivided at Chalcedon, therefore that Council IS valid!
I sincerely hope you guys accept Chalcedon one day, so that we can welcome you back to the fold. It will be much easier for your church than for the Latins...They have hundreds of years of baggage to get rid of, and the idea of Papal Supremacy.

Until that day, all we can do is pray.

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Armenians don't see the councils after the Council of Ephesus being valid. after that council the Catholics were considered schismatic.
The idea of Papal supremacy was part of the reason we didn't accept the council of Chalcedon, other reason was we were at war during that time with the Persians. Our bishops were in a battlefield fighting for our Christian faith after being deserted by the Catholic Church. We were counting on the Church to defend us but You guys left us to die but God protected us and we held our ground.
To have union you have to accept the Armenian Church as your brothers we both don't have to change our worship.
Here is anEO link that accept the Armenian Church as brothers.
http://www.orthodoxunity.org/article08.html
here is an Armenian site
http://www.stsarkis.org/history/StSarkisHistory_home.htm

orthedoxy -

Orthodoxunity.org is NOT an "EO link."

It is run by the British Orthodox Church, a group that only recently shed vagante status by aligning itself with the Copts.

Orthodoxunity.org has a definite Non-Chalcedonian agenda.

Maximus said:

orthedoxy -

Orthodoxunity.org is NOT an "EO link."

It is run by the British Orthodox Church, a group that only recently shed vagante status by aligning itself with the Copts.

Orthodoxunity.org has a definite Non-Chalcedonian agenda.

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Are they one with you or not?
what if you are divided among yourself who should we listen to?

Armenians are eastern orthodox and we are more orthodox then you are, since we have not changed. the so called Eo maybe orthodox comparing to the RC but not to Armenian Church.

orthedoxy said:

Are they one with you or not?
what if you are divided among yourself who should we listen to?

Armenians are eastern orthodox and we are more orthodox then you are, since we have not changed. the so called Eo maybe orthodox comparing to the RC but not to Armenian Church.

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The British Orthodox Church, as I said before, is a Non-Chalcedonian group and definitely not "one" with the Eastern Orthodox.

We obviously disagree concerning the orthodoxy of the Armenians.

Orthodox Christians (and Roman Catholics) recognize the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the Church as infallible and authoritative. The Armenians reject the last four of those councils and so cannot be considered Orthodox.

The Roman Catholics recognize more then Seven Ecumenical Councils does that makes you not orthodox?
Please explain why can you stop at seven and we can't stop at three?

orthedoxy said:

The Roman Catholics recognize more then Seven Ecumenical Councils does that makes you not orthodox?
Please explain why can you stop at seven and we can't stop at three?

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It is true that the RCC regards many more than seven councils as ecumenical, but the first seven it recognizes are the same first seven the Orthodox regard as ecumenical.

The Armenians can stop with regard to the councils anytime they wish: at two, like the Nestorians, or at three, as they currently do.

In order to be Orthodox, however, one must recognize all of the first seven councils as ecumenical.

If one wishes to be Roman Catholic, he must accept many more, but he still must accept the first seven.

Rather than seeing the seven as a point of division between the Orthodox and Roman Catholics, I see them as common ground.

The Armenians need accept only four more and they can share that same common ground.

Maximus said:

It is true that the RCC regards many more than seven councils as ecumenical, but the first seven it recognizes are the same first seven the Orthodox regard as ecumenical.

The Armenians can stop with regard to the councils anytime they wish: at two, like the Nestorians, or at three, as they currently do.

In order to be Orthodox, however, one must recognize all of the first seven councils as ecumenical.

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Wouldn't that mean you only became orthodox after the seventh council?
Armenians are orthodox because They accepted the original faith. Protestants are not considered orthodox because they have new teachings. Would you agree?

If one wishes to be Roman Catholic, he must accept many more, but he still must accept the first seven.

Rather than seeing the seven as a point of division between the Orthodox and Roman Catholics, I see them as common ground.

The Armenians need accept only four more and they can share that same common ground.

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Rather than seeing the three as a point of division between the Armenians and Orthodox, I see them as common ground.
You still need to answer my question why is it ok to accept only seven and not three????