Heaven: Present or Future?

franklin · May 28, 2002

I've been hearing a lot on the subject of heaven lately and I just thought I'd throw in my two cents for a moment for what it's worth ....

Is heaven something or someplace we go to after death or is it something that comes to us while we are still physically alive on this great big planet that God has created for us to enjoy?
When Christ comes into the life of a person can we say that he has the Kingdom of God within him?
Luke 17:21, "...for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (I think we can trust the words of Christ)

What does it mean to have eternal life?
Is eternal life defined as knowing Christ Jesus while in this physical body? Or is eternal life to mean to accept Christ to become immortal?
John 17:3, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
1 John 5:11-12, "And this is the record, that God hath [present tense] given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath [present tense] life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have [present tense] eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. "
If the kingdom of God is within us (as Jesus said) then can we say that heaven is a present reality?
Romans 8:10, "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead [the body of sin, the old man] because of sin; but the Spirit is life [the spiritual body, the new man] because of righteousness."
This verse says if we have Christ in us, then we have the Spirit in us, and if we have the Spirit in us, then we have eternal life in us! This is what Paul meant in Romans 10:6 when he explained that the meaning of the phrase "ascend into heaven" means to "bring Christ down from above." If we have Christ in us, we are in heaven! Therefore, heaven is a present reality now, and not a future hope. Heaven is within us!

Is this reason enough for us to rejoice brothers & sisters? :clap:

As believers, which is more important to us, this life or the afterlife? If the Bible doesn't really say much about what the afterlife is all about, should't we just leave that up to God? Ecclesiastes 12:7, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Any thoughts?

KraKto$is8 · May 31, 2002

We should try and live this life as well as we could, but the next world is possibly the best thing that will happened to you.

I can't back this up with scriptures (it's too early in the morning) but I have heard the the next world is timeless and placeless.

franklin · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by KraKto$is8
We should try and live this life as well as we could, but the next world is possibly the best thing that will happened to you.

I can't back this up with scriptures (it's too early in the morning) but I have heard the the next world is timeless and placeless.

Hi Kra, I don't see much if any evidence in the scriptures that tells us about an afterlife or a world we are going to live in after we die. I have recently discovered this myself and I had to wrestle with it to a point. I think that deep down we would all love the thought of living forever but if that is what is in God's plans for humanity I think we should leave that up to him. The scriptures just tell us from Eccl 12:7 that our bodies return to the dust of the earth and our spirit returns to God who gave it to us. What happens after that, we just do not know.

NRutman · May 31, 2002

Franklin,

Thank you for your post. Read the the last few chapters of Revelation. It is quite clear that God will create a new Heaven and a new Earth for us to dwell with Him forever. I think references to the kingdom of God within us means the kingdom of God on this earth. I don't think that Christ was trying to say that God does not reign in Heaven, but ONLY in our hearts. Furthermore, we can claim eternal life now because we know that physical death is not death at all, but only more life as we are joined with Christ.

Thank you so much for using Scripture! I hope my reply is useful.

Nate

NRutman · May 31, 2002

I just thought of something else. Look at Luke 23:43:
"Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (NIV)
I think this is great evidence of the Scriptures speaking of an afterlife. There are also many other references to eternity. I would recommend that you pick up Randy Alcorn's "In Light of Eternity". It is a great book that closely looks at what we can know about Heaven through Scripture!

Hope this helps,
Nate

franklin · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by NRutman
I just thought of something else. Look at Luke 23:43:
"Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (NIV)
I think this is great evidence of the Scriptures speaking of an afterlife. There are also many other references to eternity. I would recommend that you pick up Randy Alcorn's "In Light of Eternity". It is a great book that closely looks at what we can know about Heaven through Scripture!

Hi Nate, Thanks for posting your replies and comments to my post.... I have some things i'd like to share with you on this subject of the afterlife if I may; I'm glad you mentioned Lk2343 I myself have recently learned that the proper method of reading and studying God's word is to let the scriptures speak for itself. One of the best things we can do is to put aside all the opinions of man's interpretations and just put our trust in the precious words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the inspired writers of the NT & of course the OT as well.
The passages you are referring to is one of those that leads many to conclude that there is a transition at death and that death is not the end of life but rather the beginning of a new existence known as traditionally taught as the afterlife.
I personally don't think the translation (NIV) that you are using is a very good one to start with, notice the placing of the comma? Let's compare the difference in the meaning of the context by simply moving the comma:

Luke 23:43, "...Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."

However, the correct reading of this verse should read:

Luke 23:43, "...Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise."

See the difference here?
If Christ went to Paradise that very day, He would surely have gone into the very presence of God. But Jesus did not go to his Father that day, for he said to Mary three days later, after he had been raised from the dead, "I am not yet ascended to My Father" (John 20:17). Christ was resurrected for 40 days (Acts 1:3) and ascended to the father only after his 40 days were fulfilled (Acts 1:9-11). Therefore, they were not together anywhere that day, except on the cross.
Christ did not contradict Himself. Notice the punctuation of Luke 23:43. The whole meaning of this verse hinges on the placement of the comma. With this in mind, remember that the punctuation in the Bible is a relatively new addition.
Christ did not promise that the thief would be with Him in Paradise that day. Jesus Himself did not go to Paradise that day but slept in the tomb.
When Jesus made this statement to the thief, it was in a reply to what the thief said to Jesus:

Luke 23:42-43, "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise. "

Notice, the thief said "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom." He did not say "when thou goest." He didn't go anywhere except the grave to go to sleep. It is quite evident that the thief understood that Christ had taught that He would come again.
By the way I will try to reply to your new heavens and new earth post later also....... & thanks for recommending the book in your post......

Franklin

franklin · Jun 1, 2002

Originally posted by NRutman
Franklin,

Thank you for your post. Read the the last few chapters of Revelation. It is quite clear that God will create a new Heaven and a new Earth for us to dwell with Him forever. I think references to the kingdom of God within us means the kingdom of God on this earth. I don't think that Christ was trying to say that God does not reign in Heaven, but ONLY in our hearts. Furthermore, we can claim eternal life now because we know that physical death is not death at all, but only more life as we are joined with Christ.
Nate

Howdy Nate, It's only me again, so how ya doin? I agree with you God did already create the new heavens and the new earth for us just as He promised in Revelation but not like all the futurists would lead us to believe. Let me present you with some thought provoking questions.

Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire, and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed along with it, why, when the "New Earth" or "New Jerusalem" comes, will the nations need healing? (Revelation 22:2)? How can you heal something that is already dead and burned? If the New Jeruslam is the saved of all ages, when all things have ended and we have embarked into eternity; when sin, death, Hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire; all evil has been disposed of, sin has been finally purged; there is no more sickness, no more hunger or thirst; the former things shall not be remembered or even come to mind; why would they need healing if they are now in eternal bliss?
Ponder these questions and the scriptures and get back to me whenever you have the time.

Franklin

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Heaven: Present or Future?

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KraKto$is8

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