Do Catholics Believe that Mary has the Power to Save?

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artnalex

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Underdog said:
This disortation is nice, and we could even start a separate thread about early Christian writings, sources, how the different writings were gathered, by whom, when, for what purpose, the different stages, what process was used to determine the writings to be included or excluded, what geographic area was included, the political influences on the process, the controversay surrounding the inclusion of the Book of Revelations, the more recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the inclusion of the Apocrypha in the Catholic Bible, the numerous other writings accepted by the Gnostics, and so forth. Trust me, I have done extensive study in this area, and would be more than happy to share my thoughts on the subject. :)
This is OBOB, not PRE. There is no debating whether or we have the Truth, not here. :priest:

But you are more than welcome to continue to ask questions.
 
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Underdog

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artnalex said:
This is OBOB, not PRE. There is no debating whether or we have the Truth, not here. :priest:

But you are more than welcome to continue to ask questions.

Thanks. :)

I know exactly where I am, and know the rules here. That's why absolutely nothing I said here was in any way shape or form, a doctrinal debate, or who has the truth or not. Did you notice my invite in the first line, to discuss early Christian writings in another thread? Did you also notice that I re-emphasized that point in the next paragraph, (the half you failed to include in your quote), "But that's not what we're talking about here."?

Let's take a look a everything I said. That way, we can see the full meaning and context.

Underdog said:
This disortation is nice, and we could even start a separate thread about early Christian writings, sources, how the different writings were gathered, by whom, when, for what purpose, the different stages, what process was used to determine the writings to be included or excluded, what geographic area was included, the political influences on the process, the controversay surrounding the inclusion of the Book of Revelations, the more recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the inclusion of the Apocrypha in the Catholic Bible, the numerous other writings accepted by the Gnostics, and so forth. Trust me, I have done extensive study in this area, and would be more than happy to share my thoughts on the subject. :)

But that's not what we're talking about here. Is it? Here, my only contention is that posting a laundry list of scripture, with book, chapter and verse in bold, and never posting the actual passage, but instead filling in the blanks with commentary on what the passages 'mean', is just bad form, and can lend itself to a little confusion. So, if you are trying to get your point across to one who does not believe the same as you, wouldn't you agree that it would make more sense to at least reach a common ground first, (the actual passage cited), and discuss it from there? :)


So, you can relax. I've been lurking around here long enough to know what's appropriate to post in the different forums. :)
 
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Hoonbaba

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Underdog said:
Thanks. :)

So, you can relax. I've been lurking around here long enough to know what's appropriate to post in the different forums. :)
Maybe it's just me but the statement you made seems like you're claiming Catholics have it wrong with the fact. I suppose this is what art was thinking as well.

-Jason
 
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Underdog

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Hoonbaba said:
Maybe it's just me but the statement you made seems like you're claiming Catholics have it wrong with the fact. I suppose this is what art was thinking as well.

-Jason

I am sorry you feel this way, Jason. If you will notice, I have not made one remark on the specific topic of the thread, except to say that I have no opinion one way or the other. My remarks went to a specific post that was in bad form, in my opinion. Nothing more.

Ironically, I am considering joining the Catholic Church.
 
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artnalex

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Underdog said:
Thanks. :)

I know exactly where I am, and know the rules here. That's why absolutely nothing I said here was in any way shape or form, a doctrinal debate, or who has the truth or not. Did you notice my invite in the first line, to discuss early Christian writings in another thread? Did you also notice that I re-emphasized that point in the next paragraph, (the half you failed to include in your quote), "But that's not what we're talking about here."?

Let's take a look a everything I said. That way, we can see the full meaning and context.




So, you can relax. I've been lurking around here long enough to know what's appropriate to post in the different forums. :)
Thanks for letting me relax, although I was already relaxed. Even had my coffee.;)


Let's take a look a everything I said. That way, we can see the full meaning and context.
You are misjudging my post. I think you feel I have some alterior motive, but I don't. I just wanted to make you aware of the posting rules. You say you know them, so great! Not everyone does, though.

(the half you failed to include in your quote),
As for me leaving out a portion of one of your last posts - it was not for effect. I was merely responding to a part of your post, not all. Nothing wrong with that.

That's why absolutely nothing I said here was in any way shape or form, a doctrinal debate, or who has the truth or not.
I'm not so sure this exactly true, though perhaps you didn't even know it.

Wasn't it you who said:
This disortation is nice, ...

...

Trust me, I have done extensive study in this area, and would be more than happy to share my thoughts on the subject.
So you see, you were in fact challening a statement of fact as seen by the Catholic Church. So perhaps now you see why I said what I did.
 
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artnalex

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Underdog said:
I think you are reading waaay too much into what I said, and reacting accordingly. Like I said, relax. You don't have to go into defensive mode with me. :)
Sorry, but I really don't feel defensive, though it is cold right now in my house.

Perhaps it is you who is defensive. No need to be really. It's not like any one here is out to get you. Relax and ask some questions. You'll be fine.
 
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MParedon

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Aack...maybe this post has gotten a teensy weensy itsy bitsy off topic. So I will do a silly happy dance to lighten the mood up a little and maybe turn on some music.

And I will add my 2 pesos in for the topic posted. I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks is accepting Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium. If you accept that the Church is indeed passing down what was not written as was talked about in the Bible and that 'binding and loosing' can be passed down, then everything else falls into place. Atleast that is how it worked for me.

:pink: here is my dance. Although I refuse to do any of the Macarena steps, I am just too cool for that. :cool:
 
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prodromos

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I guess I don't like posting just the verses because people often have the tendancy to just read those verses and not the context they are found in. When you look up the verses yourself, you can't avoid reading the surrounding text.

I'm just wary of anything remotely resembling proof texting :sorry:.

John
 
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Skripper

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MParedon said:
Aack...maybe this post has gotten a teensy weensy itsy bitsy off topic. So I will do a silly happy dance to lighten the mood up a little and maybe turn on some music.

And I will add my 2 pesos in for the topic posted. I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks is accepting Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium. If you accept that the Church is indeed passing down what was not written as was talked about in the Bible and that 'binding and loosing' can be passed down, then everything else falls into place. Atleast that is how it worked for me.

:pink: here is my dance. Although I refuse to do any of the Macarena steps, I am just too cool for that. :cool:
LOL! You are cool!;)
 
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Polycarp1

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Perhaps the key point that hasn't been addressed yet is something that we all -- Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox -- profess to believe in -- the Communion of Saints. I don't off hand recall the references in Hebrews and some of the Pauline epistles, but what it amounts to is that we are all bound together: those living mortal lives on Earth and those who have gone on to be with the Lord, in one united fellowship joined together by the Holy Spirit in Christ's Mystical Body.

I certainly will pray for you, and would hope that you would see it in your heart to pray for me. And I would feel no compunction in requesting (praying, in Elizabethan English, as when one "prays" an earthly judge for a favorable decision) your prayers in intercession for me.

Now, Christ conquered Death. That's Scriptural. In Christ there is no difference between those living in mortal bodies and those living in Him in Heaven. The latter are, of course, the saints -- whether or not the Vatican has gotten around to formally canonizing them. There is, in Christ, no difference between my asking you to pray for me, and my asking Mary or Francis or John Vianney to pray for me.
 
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Skripper

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Polycarp1 said:
Perhaps the key point that hasn't been addressed yet is something that we all -- Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox -- profess to believe in -- the Communion of Saints. I don't off hand recall the references in Hebrews and some of the Pauline epistles, but what it amounts to is that we are all bound together: those living mortal lives on Earth and those who have gone on to be with the Lord, in one united fellowship joined together by the Holy Spirit in Christ's Mystical Body.

I certainly will pray for you, and would hope that you would see it in your heart to pray for me. And I would feel no compunction in requesting (praying, in Elizabethan English, as when one "prays" an earthly judge for a favorable decision) your prayers in intercession for me.

Now, Christ conquered Death. That's Scriptural. In Christ there is no difference between those living in mortal bodies and those living in Him in Heaven. The latter are, of course, the saints -- whether or not the Vatican has gotten around to formally canonizing them. There is, in Christ, no difference between my asking you to pray for me, and my asking Mary or Francis or John Vianney to pray for me.
Exactly.
 
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