My biggest problem with what I see in Church. Opinions?

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KC Catholic

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Ok...let's not get whacky here guys! Let's keep the discussion centered on the OP and leave out the ad hominem comments.

Course, I ad hominem to mah eggs in the mornin'. Thems homny grits! :lol:

Sorry, I'm a little punchy today!

Peace.
 
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Wolseley

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This is obviously a HUGE brick wall in our exchange. "Church cannot err"? What!!!!???? God is the only One that cannot err! Therefore, I couldn't disagree more to that statement. We have no other alternative here, but to agree to disagree.
You don't believe that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth? (1 Tim 3:15)
Second Vatican Council? Hmmm... I don't think I need to go there. Anyway, to me, this is a NEW document, just like the NEW Bible (BTW, the only official true Bible - that's available to us - is either the Latin Vulgate or the Douay Rheims Version (translated from the LV)), where there have been considerable revisions made to the original "Catholic" beliefs & laws.
You don't accept Vatican II or the New American Bible as legitimate? Hmmmm...........

You wouldn't happen to still be driving a 1958 model car, would you? ;)
 
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"It-self"?! Well, it's HIMSELF, if that really matters.

Anyway...

Regarding the issue of women lectors, I did mention in my last post that I do agree with St. Paul. And, I wasn't being arbitrary, but rather, I was not concentrating (I admittedly posted that initial remark in haste) on the true depth of the woman issue in my original post because that was not my main focus - the role of these new Eucharistic Ministers happened to be the focus.

In my opinion, the fact that you're still even bringing up that woman lector issue shows me that you're trying to "nickel-and-dime" this argument. I feel my points were obviously targeting more of a global level of issues within the Church.

Also,

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"Church cannot err"? What!!!!????
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Matthew 16:16-19
Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you , Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you , but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

I don't think this proves anything. For one, as Jesus was speaking to Peter, I agree he MAY have also been refering to any of Peter's successors. However, just as the President of the US does NOT make all of the decisions regarding our country & the way it is governed, nor does the Pope make ALL of the decisions regarding the Catholic religion. In FACT, most changes that have occurred within the Catholic Church (specifically in the US) have NOT been mandated by the Holy Father, but rather by one of his subordinates (Cardinals, Archbishops, etc) - possibly under the guise of the Pope's behalf, but I doubt it. Thus, IMO, that would be the same as being invalid.

Also, if you still think the Church (BTW, I'm refering to the organization, not the religion in a spiritual sense) cannot err, then that must also mean that you support all of the proven pedophilic/homosexual activity that involves some of the clergy, and the Church's role in covering up the majority of those cases.


If I cannot trust the Church, who has been given the authority to guide Jesus' flock, exactly who can I trust? We have seen what the Deformation did, each man set up as his own authority. It has been nothing but heartache since.

Personally, I do believe that we are to use the Catholic Church and it's clergy (some of them anyway) as a guide, but I also believe in what Jesus taught us - "God helps those who help themselves". To me, this means that we should also follow our hearts. Jesus taught us to open our hearts to God & to the Holy Spirit. You may disagree, but my heart tells me that there's definitely something very wrong with the Catholic Church today.


Well, I guess you're not Catholic then.

Oh, I am a Catholic. Maybe just not your type of Catholic.


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We're both adults. Right? Or did I get that wrong too.
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Ah ad hominem. Now the true GateXII reveals him/her/it-self.

Duh!!! I was only refering to MY blunder in incorrectly guessing your gender. Touchy, touchy.

Obviously, you DO have a problem with agreeing to disagree. Keep it going if you must, but I think I'm finished with this argument. Take care.
 
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